Rossi Lugano/early demo's revisited. (technical)

  • It is unfortunate that the Cylinder is dead, but I suppose I will make another. I am considering whether I should change anything or make the new one the same. I have a spare coil and plenty of Durapot, and some new thermocouples here.


    At least I was able to double-check the data from before, and the older data seems pretty solid. I also now have better data on the controller power consumption.


    I am heading out for a while also quite soon, so probably no new experiments for a month, even if I get a new cylinder completed over the next week. I will compile the data I have in the meantime.

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  • how could you get an error in amperes by measuring the voltage?

    The amperage shown on the Kill-A-Watt was compared to that of the Fluke at different control box output voltage settings, at whatever amperage that resulted. The output voltage is controlled by a SSVR acting like a triac, fed by nominally 120 V AC. The difference between the KAW meter and the Fluke meter was greater at lower control output voltage settings, and therefore lower currents. The Fluke was used to measure current both before the control box and the output. The output amps and utility side input amps are nearly identical at all output voltage settings used (typically 0.01 A higher on the output side).

  • I decided that I should replicate myself. I have poured another Cylinder made as closely as possible to the original. Unfortunately the internal and external thermocouples are not matched (from the same wire) like last time, but the rest should be essentially the same. The coil is slightly smaller in diameter by a couple mm also. That may or may not help prevent the outside from splitting from the coil layer. One way to find out...

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  • The coil is slightly smaller in diameter by a couple mm also. That may or may not help prevent the outside from splitting from the coil layer. One way to find out...


    I have made a lot of these as you might imagine. I always make the Kanthal coil quite a lot smaller than the cylinder it is to cover, and the bigger the cylinder the bigger the difference in diameter. For example 15mm coils for 18mm cylinders, and 25mm coils for 40mm cylinders as shown here. Winding them on was a learning curve for me, but the secret it to do it in such a way that you are always expanding the coil and easing it on turn by turn. The picture might make this clearer (I hope). They certainly end up 'tight' when you do this, but the resulting increase in coil life makes it worthwhile - we have had these 1mm coils running at 800C for months at a time.


  • Alan Smith ,

    These coils were wound rather quickly around the fine thread screw for a gear puller held in a cordless drill secured to the workbench. I made it about 18 ohms worth, although I only wanted 13 ohms in the end. The coils start out like the expanded one above, then I drop it over a stainless rod, and compress the coil gently with a few washers until it is just to the point of being a tight coil, being careful to not bunch up any wraps or make the stack of wraps crooked. Then with a propane torch I gently heat the coil to a faint orange to relax it in the compressed position. Once the coil is cooled, I choose the best-looking section of the 18 ohms for the desired 13 ohms part, and twist up the connection legs.


    For the Cylinders I am using 24 ga Kanthal, which is smaller than I like to use, but was required to keep the coil dimensions and power in the right range.


    The coil is stretched out to the desired length so that the spring tension maintains its stability and position within the mould, especially when the cement is poured in. I pour the cement down the center of the coil so that the cement is forced to flow between the coil wraps, outwards, preventing any voids around the coil or pushing the coil out of position.

  • question is settled


    If we believe the Rossi originated fuel and ash samples, then the reaction converted natural Ni58 -> Ni62 pretty well 100%.


    That is highly unbelievable in a reaction whose power out does not change, since the conversion is highly exothermic, and for the rate to stay constant up to 100% conversion, and 100% conversion to correspond exactly with end of test, is not plausible.


    More seriously - the total energy out from this conversion is >> than that measured in the Lugano test.


    So those measurements you show are highly unlikely to represent before / after for a given reactor.


    And highly likely to be a Rossi substitution.


    So I'm not sure what is settled other than that Rossi was claiming, and IH believing, this at some point in time?

  • ... is settled: 62 Ni etc is ADDED to fuel [from IH-002A, a flat mirroring of one of AR's 11 M$ CF hints], and NOT a yield of unbelievable transformations.


    [left, AR 2002 - right, IH 2019]

    Oh. Well then, you could have just posted a copy the fuel analysis “leaked” three years ago that said right on it that it was essentially the same as the ash from Lugano.

  • I take it that you imply the emissivity changes as the Durapot ages thermally? Or is it simply that you are still chasing out volatiles from the whole body of your cylinder?

    Not sure. Bit of both?


    Again there is a patchy, sort of dusty dark film or coating that forms on the surface while hot, after strong but not extreme heating. Extreme heating forces the dark coating to move to the coolest parts, leaving behind a pure white surface with high IR pyrometer emissivity. Holding at 850 C, the pyrometer emissivity climbs and stays high when cooling down again.


    There was low pyrometer emissivity when the first Cylinder was fired up also. By “low” I mean 0.87 to 0.88, which changes to 0.94 to 0.96 when cooked to whiteness. The emissivity increase, once it occurs, is permanent.

  • What Lugano should have looked like:

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    Paradigmnoia, great job ! therefore if we consider an hypothetical smaller XH active and concentric cylinder filled inside external heater cylindrer ?

    In this case picture you suggested should be wrong or not ?

    At home, fortunally i use some lampshades too to preserve my old eyes :)

  • Paradigmnoia, great job ! therefore if we consider an hypothetical smaller XH active and concentric cylinder filled inside external heater cylindrer ?

    In this case picture you suggested should be wrong or not ?

    At home, fortunally i use some lampshades too to preserve my old eyes :)

    I brightened the original photo from the Lugano report (Figure 12a, page 25), to more closely match what ~1400 C should look like. If it was so hot really, I doubt the ribs could even be distinguished by the eye.


    In my opinion there should be a few weeks where such a hot cat could have been photographed, if the photo in the paper is supposed to be from a cooler time period.


    Below is a real 1100 C (~middle 3.5 cm) Cylinder.

    (Sorry the IR screen is cropped. It is hard to get both the IR screen and the Cylinder at the same time, because the IR screen is in a direct occultation of the cylinder)

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    8147-actual-1107-c-jpg

  • It seems i was unclear about my explanation...

    if internal tube is heated mostly by LENR XH close to him, it should be more hot/lighting than external tube where are heaters ?

    This is why external cylinder appaers darker ?

    Don't forget cycle time we saw on lugano report.

    i can tell you there is 2 concentric tubes on Ecat , this is why IH patent modified this trick by creating a reactor with 2 separated tubes/compartment.



  • It seems i was unclear about my explanation...

    if internal tube is heated mostly by LENR XH close to him, it should be more hot/lighting than external tube where are heaters ?

    This is why external cylinder appaers darker ?

    Don't forget cycle time we saw on lugano report.

    i can tell you there is 2 concentric tubes on Ecat , this is why IH patent modified this trick by creating a reactor with 2 separated tubes/compartment.


    Within the tube, presumably the hottest part would a reaction if there was one. The middle is already the hottest due to normal thermodynamics anyways. As we have seen by differences between my Cylinder and the MFMP Dogbone, a hollow core heats much hotter than a solid core. The MFMP Dogbone was nearly something like 175 C hotter inside than mine inside, at the same outside temperature.


    Alumina and Alumina-like non-conductors radiate mostly in the long wave IR band, so the colour temperature may be more skewed to the red end of the scale compared to a real blackbody at the same temperature, since less energy is radiated in the visible light band than a blackbody would.


    I suspect that we just see the heater wires glowing in the Lugano image. They are clearly glowing orange hot on the outside, uninsulated and exposed to airflow.


    The patent application featuring the Lugano device expanded schematic shows two tubes. One inner tube for fuel, which gets wrapped in the heater coils, and the outer ribbed tube. Notably, the coil wires cannot be seen through the gaps in the casting in Lugano report images, showing at least that the wires are positioned deeply under the surface. It is possible that the coil wires are in air between the two tubes, which would allow for expansion and contraction of the wires, allow high rates of radiant power, and not directly insulate the wires (preventing overheating at lower input power levels).


    It would be interesting to compare radiant vs conductive heat transfer rates and temperatures for wires in air vs cemented in solid for a cylinder of Lugano size. The MFMP Glowstick designs use the coil in air method very effectively.