Those Darn Russians: EVOs, LENR, Exotic Propulsion, and More.

  • Hello... I'm new here... it's the work of Randell Mills and his hydrino/GUT-CP theory that has led me here... but I'm also interested in the recent developments of LION.

    But I'm surprised to find a discussion on the subject of UFO's! :)

    1) If an extra-terrestrial species was visiting this planet, with super advanced exotic technology (energy, anti-gravity etc), I doubt they'd travel lights years at warp speed... only to crash in the middle of the desert... some small town American ranch.
    2) If you believe these crafts are man made, and are being piloted by human beings... look into the story of Viktor Grebennikov. It's a bizarre and quite unbelievable story of a Russian entomologist (beetles), who lived behind the Iron Curtain during Cold War, and claims to have developed an anti-gravity propulsion device... entirely from insect wings.
    ... I personally like to think nature may have already developed 'anti-gravity'... considering we are still scratching our heads as to how bees, species of beetles and dragon flies are capable of flying (levitating)... it's an interesting read.
    ... IT EXPLAINS MUCH OF WHAT IS DESCRIBED IN THE UFO PHENOMEMENA (inertia, anti-gravity, G-force speeds... even 'cloaking'/invisibility)
    Anyway... back to planet Earth... does anyone have any knowledge of Browns Gas? (Yule Brown)
    If you want to talk 'conspiracy' and the powers that be... have any of you looked into the evidence put forward by Dr Judy Wood regarding the destruction (disappearance) of the World Trade Centre? Many of the anomalies witnessed in LENR/Cold Fusion research (John Hutchinson, Tesla) where witnessed at the WTC site.

    • Official Post

    If you want to talk 'conspiracy' and the powers that be... have any of you looked into the evidence put forward by Dr Judy Wood regarding the destruction (disappearance) of the World Trade Centre?

    Welcome Danny! But I should point out that this is the LENR forum, and we hope to keep strictly on that narrow topic. So no Judy Wood please, there are other fora specifically to discuss her work, and for that matter, UFO's too.

  • Welcome Danny! But I should point out that this is the LENR forum, and we hope to keep strictly on that narrow topic. So no Judy Wood please, there are other fora specifically to discuss her work, and for that matter, UFO's too.

    Dr Randell Mills, hydrino and GUT-CP then Sir! (the reason I came here... which seems more controversial than the topic of UFO's!)
    although I am now watching LION 2 Unboxing... and his rather marvellous rendition of Windmills Of Your Mind @17.30.
    I believe you are the gentlemen speaking at New Energy Symposium in Sweden? Which I would have loved to attend but unfortunately in S. America.
    To be honest, I'm a newbie in regards to this topic (a year?). I'm fascinated by GUT-CP and the potential for everything post Schrodinger being 'wrong' :/. I'm more interested in the sociological implications if his work being proven correct. The implications for human civilisation once this 'phenomena' known as LENR/Cold Fusion... 'NEW FIRE!' 8) is understood and used in it's full capacity. Potential business models, implications for fossil fuels (OBVIOUS!) and the finance industry.
    I'm going off on one, try and stick to the science of LENR... BUT F**KING HELL FIRE CLUB! THIS HUGE! ... Some you gentlemen (and ladies?) could be the ones to save our species!

  • Quote

    So you don't think studying a REAL phenomenon that has been OFFICIALLY ADMITTED AS LEGITIMATE by the United States Department of Defense that seems to be capable of manipulating mass, inertia, gravity, and other physical forces is worth investigating on this forum?

    Whoa there, dear @Director . What has been "officially admitted as legitimate" and by whom? Sure, there are sightings of unknown flying objects but the origin and nature of these remain unknown. Anyway, please cite the reference you are quoting and attribute the source and link. To the best of my knowledge, US DOD has not admitted that they know of any evidence that UFO's have an extra-terrestrial origin. Thanks.

    (if you would rather do that in another forum, please provide a link)

  • The AATIP is an admitted DOD program which has been investigating AAVs for years now. The former director of the project has been interviewed repeatedly - with no one in the govt refuting their conclusions - and has openly declared...

    1 - These are real, physical craft that had to be manufactured somewhere. They are not illusions.

    2 - They display performance beyond any known military asset of the USA or other nation.

    3 - To achieve their performance they must be utilizing breakthrough physics.

    He states that these crafts are not terrestrial of origin, but avoids the use of the word extraterrestrial. He wants to use the word, but it seems like he is not allowed.

    What I find sad is that humanity is having to re-invent the wheel. Star Trek level technology is flying above us, but we are still designing chemical rockets for upcoming space missions.

  • It is nice that LENR Forum is fairly free from the "Rossi says" stuff.

    Alas, no happiness lasts for long, now we are stuck with a tough case of "Director says".

    Why this obsession with EVOs? The acronym supposedly means "Exotic Vacuum Objects". There are no vacuums in the gadgets that is being talked about. Maybe it does not matter because there is not the slightest proof that EVOs exist. "Ken Shoulders said" does not impress on me. His later writings were increasingly distanced from reality.

    Having said that, I would like to remind you of today's fireworks:…-heavy-launch-livestream/

    "Update: It's now delayed to 2:20 PM ET. Sources say this is due to upper level winds."

    Maybe it starts with a bang, lets hope not!

    But there is an interesting site with this name:

  • For Goodness Sakes.

    EVOs are absolutely real beyond any doubt whatsoever. In the simplest sense, they are much smaller versions of the large spheromaks (toroidal force free plasmas) that are used in hot fusion and military weapons research. Throughout the past hundred years, dozens of researchers have observed the same phenomena that Shoulders documented: they simply referred to the same torodial structures by different names. Erzions, Strange Radiation, Spiral Toroids, Compact Toroids, Charge Clusters, Ectons - I could go on and on!

    There is a LOT we don't know about EVOs, but there is also a good bit we do know. Their larger cousins (same structure simply larger and less energy/matter dense) spheromaks have been created, sustained, and experimented with by hot fusion projects and the military for decades. The same process that creates them is also produced at the tip of sharp needle, like in one of Kenneth Shoulders experiments. If you have a plasma of electrons and positive ions and the electrons are moving in one direction, they start to form filaments or loops due to their own magnetic field inducing self organization. Then, on their own or with the help of external magnetic fields, the ends of these filaments loop together to produce a toroidal geometry. This is official as-mainstream-as-you-can-get knowledge that's probably thirty years old or more!

    Yep, it's slightly obscure, especially when someone's not intentionally studying plasma dynamics, fusion research, or military projects such as Shiva Star. But the information is all out there.

    Please, for goodness sakes, lay off the attacks. I don't go out of my way to mock you, although I do respond when you make intentionally false posts to try and make me respond in a hostile way. Also, I don't claim to know everything: but on this topic I without a doubt know more than you -- if you still contend that EVOs are "not real."

  • When you get nominated for a Nobel Prize, or are voted by your peers as 'Scientist of the Year' I think I will take your criticism a little more seriously.

    Alan, you comment works both ways:

    When you get nominated for a Nobel Prize, or are voted by your peers as 'Scientist of the Year' I think I will take your LENR a little more seriously.

    As for Ken Shoulders, here is a collection of his writings in chronological order:

    And here is a sample from 2012:…ar%20energy%20release.pdf

    And it starts out like this:



    Ken Shoulders Sept. 1, 2012

    Overview The form of nuclear energy production described here is in alignment with that discussed recently in the literature by Andrea Rossi, as embodied generically in his E-Cat configuration. It is a nuclear process but one without harmful radiation. It embodies neither conventional nuclear fusion nor fission and the process is harmless to humans. The energy obtained from the process is largely due to an induced change in the atomic mass of participating materials. This change in mass, hence energy, is brought about through the use of EVOs striking the parent atoms. Many such fundamental changes to atoms by EVOs have been published by Shoulders.

    These are the words of a self-taught maverick that doesn't seem to have the slightest clue about quantum mechanics or nuclear physics.

    Sorry to have to say that.

  • Quote

    Shoulders: Overview The form of nuclear energy production described here is in alignment with that discussed recently in the literature by Andrea Rossi, as embodied generically in his E-Cat configuration. It is a nuclear process but one without harmful radiation. It embodies neither conventional nuclear fusion nor fission and the process is harmless to humans. The energy obtained from the process is largely due to an induced change in the atomic mass of participating materials.

    H-G Branzell: These are the words of a self-taught maverick that doesn't seem to have the slightest clue about quantum mechanics or nuclear physics.

    I don't know about that but, for sure, he hasn't followed Rossi's activities closely or if he has, he has been fooled by ... well... a very poor quality deception. Which bring up: what else fools him?

  • Sorry! I see from Mr. Google that Shoulders died in 2013. I guess at that time, a lot of people thought Rossi had the goods. Still, there were lots of reasons to doubt it or, at least, to be uncertain about it.

  • Rossi has the goods in my opinion. But he's dropped several perfectly good cans of peaches, pairs, and canned pasta into the smelly litter box of his game playing, manipulations, and deceptions. One big nasty dropping was him convincing James Bass to be an employee for Johnson Matthey. Yet another was his admitted faking of a test with one of his licencees to get out of a contract. There are probably half a dozen more that could make people want to hold their nose when stepping into his front door. But inside those cans, protected by the metal exterior, are some super delicious fruits full of anti-oxidants and vitamins. Of course, I wouldn't say that his neighbors houses are spotless either. I hear their milk has soured.

  • @Director

    In your opinion, what is the best specific evidence that Rossi has "the goods" and what exactly are "the goods?"

    And one more question if you don't mind. If Rossi has "the goods," why lie about it for seven years (10 if you count the patent claim about heating a factory)? If Rossi could heat a factory ten years ago, shouldn't he be heating the whole world by now?

  • This is going to be an abridged version of the answer I could provide - which could take up many pages.

    The goods could be defined as the knowledge Rossi gained through repeated experimentation to create the conditions for EVO stimulated LENR.

    Going back to basics, Focardi and Piantelli had achieved decent results with nickel and hydrogen back in the 1990s. By putting nickel through a robust series of treatments, they were able to enhance hydrogen absorption to such an extent that a high degree of embrittlement was achieved. By thermally cycling their fuel or manipulating the pressure - to make the nickel inhale or exhale hydrogen - they induced fracto-emission which triggered an "excited" state that generated COPs of around 2-3 and a couple hundred continual watts of excess, totally anomalous, heating.

    Then, sometime later, Rossi began his experiments. Initially, the consensus seems to be that Rossi utilized diffusely applied palladium onto his nickel, probably by some type of vapor deposition or sputtering technique. His likely goal was to enhance hydrogen absorption: this is a no brainer. For a very long time the usage of nano-islands of palladium or other transition metals (or even smaller nickel particles) has been known to function as "spillover catalysts" that accelerate the decomposition of molecular hydrogen into atomic hydrogen. However, I think what he eventually discovered was that the atomic hydrogen environment was creating nano-scale features on his nickel. Likely, as some have suggested, he was adding tiny quantities of hydrocarbons to his plasma (methane or CO2) he would have nearly a classical CVD diamond synthesis reactor. This is hard, accepted science: there are hundreds of papers that go into detail about the combination of nickel, hydrocarbons, other optional elements, and atomic hydrogen to produce diamond nano-structures.

    Soon, he began to brag publicly about his tubercles or tubercules: he told a couple folks they boosted the output a hundred fold or more. If you spend a couple hours searching the web, you'll find many examples of papers detailing a variety of diamond protrusions that can be grown in similar conditions: spears, cones, tubes, and even needles. I've seen some that look like needles with round diamond pods on top. Sometimes, these structures can actually be carbon on the exterior and diamond on the interior. Over the last couple months, I've read a ton of papers about these processes and they never cease to fascinate me. Once Rossi noticed these tubercles, I'm sure he quickly found references in the literature (he is an avid reader) and figured out what was taking place.

    My guess is that pretty soon he realized that by maintaining a plasma environment, he realized the palladium was superfluous. A plasma could adequately hydrogenate/embrittle the nickel and other elements could be used to create the low work function structures he desired. Interestingly, hydrogen and lithium both are excellent surface termination agents that can induce a Negative Electron Affinity on diamond. However, if you look at a couple of the fuel analysis that were performed, he salted his reactors with a number of elements that could serve to dope diamond surfaces to achieve a NEA and lower work function. Sodium, Potassium, and others.

    So what it looks like he was doing for a time was building specifically tuned LENR reactors that had a number of dynamic, inter-related processes happening all at once: the generation of EVOs from the plasma to induce LENR in the fuel, the growth of nano-diamond emitters to convert various types of energy generated into more EVOs, and the continual hydrogenation of the nickel by the plasma (among others). To understand how they are related, not only does the atomic hydrogen in the atmosphere contribute to the growth of diamond structures on nickel, but so does the thin, potentially molten due to its lower melting point, layer of nickel hydride. The combination of nickel hydride below the graphite (deposited either from methane, carbon added to the fuel mix, excreted from the nickel, or already on the surface) and atomic hydrogen bombarding it from above preferentially grows diamond structures. Then, by changing different parameters (such as using small amounts of heavier inert gases or nano-particles of different metals) you can impact the shape/structure of the protrusions that are grown. However, at the temperatures in these reactors, some percentage of them will be burnt away (diamond doesn't last forever) and this is why continually growing new diamond is so important.

    I think Rossi had success with these systems on many occasions, but they were also very temperamental at times. Quite often he had failures. I also think that controlling these systems was not easy at all: there are a bunch of inter-related processes taking place. Since he jumped from configuration to configuration, he may not have truly mastered many or any of these. Another point worth mentioning is we don't know how much pre-processing he performed on his nickel before placing it in these systems. My guess is he may have blasted the nickel in a hydrogen corona discharge (with a small percentage of methane) to grow some degree of diamond structures before inserting the fuel into the active LENR reactor.

    Then we move onto the Ni-LiAlH4 age of experimentation. To be blunt, I'm very dissapointed with replicators (although I can't say much because I'm not able to perform any tests myself) due to their lack of simple optimizations. I think there were multiple processes Rossi put his fuel through that we haven't even attempted: such as purifying the LiAlH4 (the processes are standard and in the literature although they require a lot of care and a good lab) which is typically dirty, contaminated stuff, ball milling the LiAlH4 to reduce particle size, and the addition of nano-particles of various metals to reduce the temperature at which hydrogen would desorb. There are a half dozen other possible optimizations I could suggest as well that I'll save for later. But despite the generally sloppy nature of the tests so far, there have been several positive results with Ni and LiAlH4: a few in which self sustain was achieved. I think there is much more to maximizing this combination than Rossi has ever disclosed; most likely, the treatment of his nickel. Moreover, the pre-generation of preferred nano-structures. Also, I should mention the rotating, high voltage, three phase magnetic field that he applied to certain systems. More on this in a moment. But I'm starting to think that during this period Rossi's mind was already drifting elsewhere: towards isolating exactly what was taking place and controlling the reaction precisely. This led to the series of Quark reactors.

    (NOTE: I'd like to speak for a moment about deuterium. There's been some speculation about Rossi's possible use of this gas, even though he has denied it many times over. Since there have been successful Ni-H and Ni-LiAlH4 tests without any extra deuterium added (only the small bit already in normal hydrogen gas) I do not think it is required. But there's an interesting effect where deuterium can be used in a plasma to "hammer" adsorbed (notice the little d indicating surface bonding) hydrogen on a nickel surface deeper into the lattice (absorption). A small quantity of deuterium or even possibly a heavier noble gas like Helium or Argon could assist in this process. Interestingly, the dynamics of this process is complex, and there are some advantages to using deuterium (closer in mass to hydrogen) rather than something really heavy like Argon. Apparently, a closer match increases the "cross section" for impacts on the nickel surface allowing more strikes to take place. Both can be used, though. Oh, and by the way, EVO's are stabilized by quantities of heavier noble gases such as argon, krypton, xenon, etc.)

    There are many ways to produce, sustain, and utilize EVOs generated in a pure plasma. The military has been working on larger, less energy/matter dense EVOs for years. They go by the term, spheromaks. The dynamics of how to create and stimulate these objects is documented. Basically, they go back to Bostics vortex filaments which are clumps of traveling electrons whose own magnetic fields make them form linked rings. If the magnetic field becomes intense enough, these "strings" of "loops" (sort of like a slinky or solenoid) will want to connect into one large toroid to achieve the most stable configuration. Eventually, a variety of groups began supplying external magnetic fields to make this happen. They created large (often larger than grapefruit to occasionally meter sized in military applications) spheromak structures that could continue existing in a stable manner for seconds or longer in some cases. This is basically VERY close to ball lightning. These larger cousins of Shoulders EVOs operate on similar principles: they emit electrons, produce fusion when they hit objects or collide with other spheromaks, can generate x-rays, and produce a wide array of interesting effects. The difference between these large ones and the smaller ones produced by Ken Shoulders is primarily, but not only, size and power density. Smaller spheromaks are more energy and matter dense. The tiny ones emitted inside of metal lattice structures when they fracture are probably the most energy dense.

    I think the QX is simply a "magnetic mirror effect" fusion reactor using lithium and hydrogen. The huge electrodes (not the clamps) are likely either magnets themselves or backed by permanent magnets. The magnetic field would not only add the helicity required to optimize EVO production (this is documented both in hot fusion spheromak research and Russian strange radiation experiments) but would also trap some portion of them in the center of the capillary tube (which would also provide a smooth dielectric surface which would keep them stable for longer). With each pulse applied, more EVOs or tiny spheromaks would be ejected by electrodes - perhaps with nano-structures on their surface to reduce work function - and collide with the ones in the middle. This would produce Li + P fusion. And, as we know, it doesn't take MeV to induce Li+P fusion. Unified Gravity Corporation has proven it can happen at 200eV. Other teams have been able to achieve it at a couple thousand EV when bombarding molten lithium (it has to be clean and free of surface oxides) with protons. A small percentage of added argon or xenon would aid the formation of EVOs and enhance the process.

    Personally, looking back, I marvel at how from the arm chair perspective all of these concepts are far simpler than they seemed years ago. The whole "Plasmoid Paradigm" is what brings it all together -- once you realize the importance of the diamond nano-structures. From a practical point of view, I think producing excess heat wouldn't be too awful difficult with a decent lab and a few competent individuals who could grasp these concepts. But there would be a significant leap required to build a system that was stable for the long term -- especially with the powder based systems. I think this is why Rossi eventually abandoned powder based systems: the Quark is simpler, more stable, easier to control, can be turned on and off instantly, more power dense, and potentially cheaper and easier to manufacture. Of course before we can know this 100% for sure, the QX requires replication: of course we're never going to get a spec sheet to do this. So an approximate replication will be needed. I don't think this will be too difficult for one reason: me356.

    Yep, an individual who started his research on this forum, started testing, asked questions here, performed exhausting series of tests day after day, learned from them, made changes, and figured this whole thing out. His fear of letting the information out of the bag isn't justified in my opinion, but I understand his mindset. This is truly powerful technology that in some configurations can produce unfriendly emissions. He believes that the risk is too great to let the information out (not only the risk to replicators but also to his own investment in creating competition). I, on the other hand, only have years of my life invested and no financial stake in anything. That's one reason I'm not fearful of sharing this information: I'm not after money. And, even more primarily, I'm of the opinion that all major technological leaps come with inherent danger to some degree or another. If humanity is to ever move forward, this tech must proliferate.

    So here is an answer. A very short answer compared to what I could have provided.

  • Any comments or questions, Shane?

    I really want to share everything I know.

    The really cool thing is that while Rossi may have optimized this tech in some ways, its roots go back all the way to Tesla and especially Thomas Henry Moray.

    If I had a lab, I'd love to try and build something close to a TH Moray "tube" with nano-diamonds and various dopants/terminating agents. He used germanium and other elements mixed with radioactive elements to reduce the work function of his semi-conducting emitter. I think with modern knowledge of diamond, dopants/therminating agents, and CVD synthesis of nano-structures, we could do far better -- even though his production of kilowatts of power with nothing but a relatively short stretch of wire (to provide an input frequency) was impressive.