Those Darn Russians: EVOs, LENR, Exotic Propulsion, and More.

  • Let's get one thing straight here: this thread isn't about little green men, short gray guys with big black eyes, or even underwater aquatic beasts swimming under the surface of Europa. This thread is about technology. Not just any sort of technology, mind you - but cutting edge, extreme technology that defies what's thought to be possible. LENR fits into this category; the production of vast quantities of excess heat from stable transition metals and hydrogen gas is truly extraordinary. But if we are to utilize our rational minds instead of retreating into the safe space the pseudo-skeptics of the world have fought vigorously to keep almost sickeningly sweet, we can't ignore the FACT that unknown craft with revolutionary propulsion systems are flying in our skies.

    The Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program is an officially confirmed Department of Defense project that acquired heaps of evidence for such anomalous vehicles. I won't go into all the details, but these craft (tracked visually, on radar, and with high tech FLIR sensors) can go from a hover at 50 feet above sea level to sixty thousand feet in two to four seconds. This is accomplished with no obviously apparent propulsion system (no indication of a heat trail from engines), no sonic boom, no sign of g-forces from such sudden accelerations tearing the vehicle apart (not to mention making mush of the brains of any occupants on board), no limit to maneuverability, and no apparent difficulty transitioning from below the ocean surface to atmosphere and vice versa. Without a doubt, these craft must be utilizing exotic technologies that have harnessed gravity, inertia, and mass. There's no other explanation for their extreme level of performance! Even if we could strap enough rockets on such a vehicle to make it go from zero to Mach 30 in seconds, the fiery blaze would be apparent. This isn't a case of swamp gas or weather balloons.

    Instead, this obviously Russian technology, straight from the Kremlin, flying in our air space with a secret plot to remotely hack and tamper with our elections as part of a right wing conspiracy... Nope, that does quite make sense. But for the sake of this thread, I'll just pretend to assume these tic-tac and saucer shaped vehicles are piloted by cosmonauts that report directly to Putin. Since everything else is blamed on Russia these days, I guess throwing AAVs (Anomalous Aerial Vehicles) on the stack of accusations won't break the camels back -- or get me banned!

    So we have a faux-Russian technology in our skies that defies the known laws of physics. This sure does sound a lot like LENR! And I'm convinced I know why: both LENR and these super duper reactionless, seemingly "warp drive" capable MiG fighters are utilizing the EVO phenomenon. Kenneth R. Shoulders created, manipulated, observed, and studied EVOs intently for the last two decades of his life. Not only could an EVO strike produce transmutations, isotopic shifts, and even non-thermal liquification effects (that all seem to point to LENR), but an additional series of properties were observed. Most importantly, the ability of an EVO to screen a huge portion of its mass, allowing for heavy ions to be accelerated to huge kinetic energies (several MeV) for minuscule inputs (perhaps ten to twenty kilovolts, max). Other researchers have observed larger EVOs induced by explosions enshrouding matter and transporting the contained particles through solid matter with very little resistance. The particles could be found literally embedded deep into another sample of material, with a re-solidified trail behind them (similar to what Ken Shoulders observed when the non-thermally melted slush would re-solidify after the EVO passed). My thinking is that the Russians, due to the brilliance of their leadership at the Kremlin, have figured out how to do the same thing but at the macro-scale.

    So here we have a link between LENR reactors and large flying craft. I think this connection is important and something that deserves further study. Although I don't believe that Occam's Razor is always correct (the simplest answer isn't always the correct one), I think that often the principle can be effectively utilized. In this case, I think it's more likely one unifying phenomenon is at play instead of multiple individual ones. Looking at this from a simpler perspective, LENR needs something "free" or at least a "cheat" to induce nuclear reactions with very little energy. These Russian craft, probably built in a secret lab under the frozen tundra of Sibera, require some sort of loop hole that can allow for them to manipulate a range of physical laws: or otherwise they'd just tear themselves apart due to inertial forces, burn up due to atmospheric drag, or destroy themselves by the atomic blast that would be required to accelerate so rapidly.

    I'd highly suggest all interested parties listen to last night's interview of Eric Davis and Harold Puthoff on Coast to Coast AM. These Russian craft are real and nothing to dismiss; although don't expect these sub-contractors for the AATIP to allege that these are human made vehicles. :-)

    Taking this theme on step further, I suspect that EVOs not only connect LENR and AAVs, but also a wide range of other exotic technologies many of us have been reading about for years: E.V. Gray's devices, Thomas Henry Moray's discharge tubes, Nikola Tesla's spark gap powered coils, Eugene Podkletnov's gravity impulse beam generator, Hutchison's bizarre materials, anomalously high efficiency HHO production, cold electricity, and others.

    As I've said before, I suspect EVOs are the unifying mechanism that all advanced sentient species, including the Russians, use to bend the forces of the universe to their will.

  • Hello Alan,

    I think I should say a few words about that document you linked. Last night, near the end of the interview with Harold Puthoff on Coast to Coast AM, there was an exchange that was sort of close to the following:

    Host: "We've been told that the AATIP has warehouses of crash debris. Do you know if there have been actual UFO crashes?"


    Puthoff: "If there have been such crashes, they are obviously highly classified."

    Host: "Can you tell us anything? You're killing me here."

    Puthoff: "There have been crashes, materials collected. Not necessarily always whole craft..."


    Puthoff: "Actually, there has been a leaked document. How it managed to leak out, I don't know. It reviewed multiple crash retrievals, so there have been cases. We've verified this document is authentic."

    The only document I'm aware of that has allegedly leaked out and describes UFO retrievals is the document you post. A late night radio show host received it sometime this July and published it online. Some people think it is legitimate and many others think it is a hoax. For example, it utilizes the same Majestic and Project Aquarius code-words and repeats some of the same content of other alleged leaked documents. But we don't even know if this is the document that Puthoff was referencing. We really do need to find out, though. If the AATIP has determined a leaked document about crash retrievals is indeed authentic and not a hoax, then we need to find it!

  • Director we have been there already many times. To complete the cycle this time around, you need to mention J.Woods coast to coast show later interpreted by BG as EVOs destroyed twin towers.

    Is it really so important for you that UFOs are real, Russian or US? How is this going to help mundane lenr?

  • Director instead of spreading conspiracy theories it may be more efficient to spend a weekend with Disclosure Project alien communication group and ask the question directly. I believe they use English there which reduces chances of Russian involvement since third pilots are generally not fluent.

  • It's no longer important to me or anyone else "if" UFOs are real. The AATIP has officially declared them to be real physical objects that repeatedly show performance that is light years ahead of any conventional craft. Regardless where they are from or who are making them, these vehicles exist beyond any reasonable doubt. To deny this after all the evidence that exists (there is tons of evidence beyond what the AATIP has disclosed publicly) is simply irrational. Any remaining psuedo-skeptics that try to claim that ALL UFO sightings are mundane phenomena or misinterpretations are displaying PATHOLOGICAL MENTAL ILLNESS. This isn't to say that 95%-99% of UFO sightings reported by ordinary John Does drinking beer in their back yard are not likely mistaken identity. But there are too many cases in which the sightings are backed up by visual recordings, radar recordings, FLIR recordings, observations by EXPERT highly credible witnesses (such as veteran Air Force pilots), radar, and other evidence.

    Since these objects exist, they are obviously utilizing some currently yet to be fully understood physical phenomena that allows for the forces of the universe to be manipulated at will. In the LENR community, we want the rules for nuclear reactions to become flexible so that we can screen the coulomb barrier, prevent hard radiation release (this still happens sometimes), produce transmutations, shift isotopes, etc. Basically, for LENR and/or these UFOs to exist, there must be a central unifying phenomena. I think this is EVOs.

  • I do not think UFOs are a particularly relevant topic to this site. I also do not think it helps LENR research to be associated with UFO-ology.

    So you don't think studying a REAL phenomenon that has been OFFICIALLY ADMITTED AS LEGITIMATE by the United States Department of Defense that seems to be capable of manipulating mass, inertia, gravity, and other physical forces is worth investigating on this forum?

    We've basically been told by the AATIP that STAR TREK LEVEL technology is flying in our skies. Call them UFOs, AAVs, UAPs, Russian warp-modified MiG fighters, or whatever you want: they're real! Do you understand the implications here?

    There are real craft - not hoped for, imagined, or speculated - capable of anomalously accelerating to tremendous speeds (Mach 30 in two-four seconds) without creating a sonic boom, tearing themselves apart, burning up due to atmospheric drag, and even cloaking themselves. LENR is all about matter (sub-atomic particles) doing all sorts of anomalous things. LENR literature is filled with virtual neutrons, screened electrostatic forces, mysteriously vanishing small levels of radiation, etc.

    LENR and these vehicles may not be siblings, but they are at least cousins, I'd say.

  • Director , asserting that something is real is very different from it being real. This is a discussion site, where people discuss stuff with one another in a casual, mutually appreciated give and take. Not (ideally) a site where people assert unsupported claims at one another and expect the other party simply to acquiesce.

    But more to the point: this is a site whose focus is LENR and not UFOs.

  • Instead of quarreling read this version of the classified document:…crash-at-aztec-new-mexico

    It is very interesting reading. But sadly it contains no mentioning of interesting things like propulsion, nuclear, energy, or fusion.

    Tesla was in contact with them. it must be possible to reestablish contact.

    This is obviously a job for you Director, believing in a cause is the first step on the road to success.

    The fact that they speak fluent English should be a good help on the way.

  • I'm not saying I think that specific document is real or not. We don't even know if it is the document that Hal Puthoff was referring to.

    However, the document does talk about energy in multiple forms, and how Tesla's system was emitting a type of superluminal energy that the extraterrestrials could detect.

    Also, in regards to the ET speaking English, we need to consider the whole document.

    First, the alleged ETs are parked in a mother ship outside of our solar system: well within the range to pick up our radio and television signals. They can easily learn about our culture, our language, and our vocabulary.

    Secondly, the alleged ETs are a highly intelligent race that has had far more time to ascend than our species. I'm certain by watching enough episodes of early television programs and listening to radio programs, they could learn the language, EXTREMELY WELL.

    Thirdly, these alleged ETs claim that their cultural goal is to pursue truth and understanding. They seem to be a highly "cultural" species. My guess is they were likely watching episodes of early TV shows together and practicing our language.

  • Let's recognize something else here.

    First, these physics-defying craft exist: there can be no rational denial of this. Who builds them, who pilots them, where they are from, and more is certainly open for debate.

    Secondly, if the technology behind the functionality and performance of these craft is disclosed, I suspect we could be given not only the keys to highly advanced energy generation (perhaps what Peter Gluck might refer to as LENR+++++++++) but a whole range of additional technologies.

    Thirdly, since Harold Puthoff has said the frequency of observation of these craft are increasing in recent times, someone is trying to show off, or at least not hiding what they have. My hope is that they'll decide to share.

    Finally, if sharing and technology transfer happens (if it has not already happened which I suspect it has) then even the E-Cat QX may find itself outclassed in no time flat.

  • Actually, the document I linked to above does not constitute a full transcript of Report Number 405389.

    page E-4-of-6:

    "These draw their power and propel themselves by use of "electrogravity". This is a means of balancing a gravity wave against an electromagnetic wave in a manner that generates a third kind of wave similar to that which powers their larger vessels."

    This sounds rather helpful. We have long known that electromagnetic waves exist, and by now we also know that the by General Relativity predicted gravitational waves also exist. All we need to do is to combine them in the correct way. I am sure that SpaceX will fix that. (No Eric, I am NOT joking, this is serious business.)

    Speaking of SpaceX, tomorrow they are launching another Falcon 9 with a semi-secret satellite:

    Live in 23 hours!:

    Hopefully it will not disappear without a trace like the Zuma did ...

  • HG Branzel,

    Not even factoring in anything truly unearthly, multiple governments were highly interested in anti-gravity research in the late 1950s with mainstream aviation and technology magazines claiming virtually every major aerospace company was involved in such research. After a multitude of companies officially admitting they were investigating the phenomenon of "electro-gravitics" it all went black. Although it is impossible to know *exactly* how everything went down, it seems like there must have been a huge breakthrough somewhere and the whole field was highly classified.

    My guess is that this is due to the Fluxliner ARV that seems very closely related to the patent of James King Jr.

    Magnetohydrodynamic propulsion apparatus

    Please note that James King Jr. was one of Townsend Thomas Brown's associates or employees (can't remember the exact relationship) in the years preceding that patent application.

    I think the designers of the Fluxliner could have based their preliminary design on that patent but then added many modifications.

  • (Julian, do you mean FTFY or FTFY?)

    Interesting articles on gravity control:…ntrol_propulsion_research

    (The last article has a feature that I did not notice before: while you point at a link an info window is showing.)

    During the years lots of resources have been spent on trying to achieve gravity control.

    And people are still trying:…nology/warp/gravstat.html

    It does not help if even a dozen physics professors declare that the general theory of relativity does not allow for gravity control, a few will still keep trying.

    This is how we discover things, by being stubborn and not listening to the experts. But those who still pursue gravity control have not realized how uncompromising the basic laws of physics are and they will end up disappointed.

  • If you truly interested in gravity control and are not simply pretending to while preparing another post to provoke me, I'd suggest looking at alternative theories of electrodynamics. There are many such papers that show the similarities between electrodynamics and hydrodynamics. Gravity seems to be a result of a pressure gradient in a fluidic aether. On Earth, this due to the mass of the planet reducing the aetheric density, so a higher pressure region around the Earth pushes matter downward or matter simply sinks into the lower pressure.

    In these AAVs, I suspect that extremely high fields, capable of producing EVOs, are creating an asymmetrical gradient around the craft that allows for motion. The fields probably need to be high voltage.

  • There are real craft - not hoped for, imagined, or speculated - capable of anomalously accelerating to tremendous speeds (Mach 30 in two-four seconds)

    Director : If you extract vacuum energy, then you will leave behind a kind of energy hole, that cools down the environment of the extraction point. Such effects have been reported by some LENR researcher, but we know of no reproduction.

    But this also ends all discussions: If your phanasy plane rushes through the sky, it will leave behind an easy detectable temperature anomaly measureable in the form of an optical distortion.

    I guess, in the next post, they only fly during night-time...

  • Nope, it doesn't. There is a difference between extracting heat energy from the environment and tapping the ZPE which is claimed per unit volume to have potentially thousands of times the energy density of matter. We have to consider what layer the ship is extracting energy from. I think the most obvious effect would be a reduction in gravity and inertia.

  • Hello... I'm new here... it's the work of Randell Mills and his hydrino/GUT-CP theory that has led me here... but I'm also interested in the recent developments of LION.

    But I'm surprised to find a discussion on the subject of UFO's! :)

    1) If an extra-terrestrial species was visiting this planet, with super advanced exotic technology (energy, anti-gravity etc), I doubt they'd travel lights years at warp speed... only to crash in the middle of the desert... some small town American ranch.
    2) If you believe these crafts are man made, and are being piloted by human beings... look into the story of Viktor Grebennikov. It's a bizarre and quite unbelievable story of a Russian entomologist (beetles), who lived behind the Iron Curtain during Cold War, and claims to have developed an anti-gravity propulsion device... entirely from insect wings.
    ... I personally like to think nature may have already developed 'anti-gravity'... considering we are still scratching our heads as to how bees, species of beetles and dragon flies are capable of flying (levitating)... it's an interesting read.
    ... IT EXPLAINS MUCH OF WHAT IS DESCRIBED IN THE UFO PHENOMEMENA (inertia, anti-gravity, G-force speeds... even 'cloaking'/invisibility)
    Anyway... back to planet Earth... does anyone have any knowledge of Browns Gas? (Yule Brown)
    If you want to talk 'conspiracy' and the powers that be... have any of you looked into the evidence put forward by Dr Judy Wood regarding the destruction (disappearance) of the World Trade Centre? Many of the anomalies witnessed in LENR/Cold Fusion research (John Hutchinson, Tesla) where witnessed at the WTC site.

  • If you want to talk 'conspiracy' and the powers that be... have any of you looked into the evidence put forward by Dr Judy Wood regarding the destruction (disappearance) of the World Trade Centre?

    Welcome Danny! But I should point out that this is the LENR forum, and we hope to keep strictly on that narrow topic. So no Judy Wood please, there are other fora specifically to discuss her work, and for that matter, UFO's too.

  • Welcome Danny! But I should point out that this is the LENR forum, and we hope to keep strictly on that narrow topic. So no Judy Wood please, there are other fora specifically to discuss her work, and for that matter, UFO's too.

    Dr Randell Mills, hydrino and GUT-CP then Sir! (the reason I came here... which seems more controversial than the topic of UFO's!)
    although I am now watching LION 2 Unboxing... and his rather marvellous rendition of Windmills Of Your Mind @17.30.
    I believe you are the gentlemen speaking at New Energy Symposium in Sweden? Which I would have loved to attend but unfortunately in S. America.
    To be honest, I'm a newbie in regards to this topic (a year?). I'm fascinated by GUT-CP and the potential for everything post Schrodinger being 'wrong' :/. I'm more interested in the sociological implications if his work being proven correct. The implications for human civilisation once this 'phenomena' known as LENR/Cold Fusion... 'NEW FIRE!' 8) is understood and used in it's full capacity. Potential business models, implications for fossil fuels (OBVIOUS!) and the finance industry.
    I'm going off on one, try and stick to the science of LENR... BUT F**KING HELL FIRE CLUB! THIS HUGE! ... Some you gentlemen (and ladies?) could be the ones to save our species!

  • Quote

    So you don't think studying a REAL phenomenon that has been OFFICIALLY ADMITTED AS LEGITIMATE by the United States Department of Defense that seems to be capable of manipulating mass, inertia, gravity, and other physical forces is worth investigating on this forum?

    Whoa there, dear Director . What has been "officially admitted as legitimate" and by whom? Sure, there are sightings of unknown flying objects but the origin and nature of these remain unknown. Anyway, please cite the reference you are quoting and attribute the source and link. To the best of my knowledge, US DOD has not admitted that they know of any evidence that UFO's have an extra-terrestrial origin. Thanks.

    (if you would rather do that in another forum, please provide a link)

  • The AATIP is an admitted DOD program which has been investigating AAVs for years now. The former director of the project has been interviewed repeatedly - with no one in the govt refuting their conclusions - and has openly declared...

    1 - These are real, physical craft that had to be manufactured somewhere. They are not illusions.

    2 - They display performance beyond any known military asset of the USA or other nation.

    3 - To achieve their performance they must be utilizing breakthrough physics.

    He states that these crafts are not terrestrial of origin, but avoids the use of the word extraterrestrial. He wants to use the word, but it seems like he is not allowed.

    What I find sad is that humanity is having to re-invent the wheel. Star Trek level technology is flying above us, but we are still designing chemical rockets for upcoming space missions.

  • It is nice that LENR Forum is fairly free from the "Rossi says" stuff.

    Alas, no happiness lasts for long, now we are stuck with a tough case of "Director says".

    Why this obsession with EVOs? The acronym supposedly means "Exotic Vacuum Objects". There are no vacuums in the gadgets that is being talked about. Maybe it does not matter because there is not the slightest proof that EVOs exist. "Ken Shoulders said" does not impress on me. His later writings were increasingly distanced from reality.

    Having said that, I would like to remind you of today's fireworks:…-heavy-launch-livestream/

    "Update: It's now delayed to 2:20 PM ET. Sources say this is due to upper level winds."

    Maybe it starts with a bang, lets hope not!

    But there is an interesting site with this name: