SPAWAR JWK LENR and the claims made by Global Energy Corporation (GEC)

  • Gregory Byron Goble

    Quote

    "Which established LENR group primarily focuses on mitigating the negative societal and economic effects of emergent (or as you believe, IMAGINARY and USELESS) LENR energy technologies?"

    I have no idea. It doesn't seem terribly important at this point, as I already noted. Far as I know, there are no "emergent LENR energy technologies." A multitude of inconsistent and vague experimental results, while interesting, hardly constitutes a technology.


    Quote

    P.S. By the by... While never an ardent defender of Rossi. I believe (look up believe before you slam me) that Rossi, along with, concurrently with, and slightly behind and also ahead of others, has cracked the 'cold fusion puzzle' (theory follows closely; presently beginning to lead)... yielding both useful and controllable LENR reactor thermal (high temp) power systems. LENR energy technology is certainly emergent. You disagree. I certainly know that.

    Believe: be convinced by, trust, have confidence in, consider honest, consider truthful


    Seriously? You trust and believe in Rossi? Wow.


    If you believe Rossi has a workable LENR technology, how in the world do you explain IH's refusal to pay him $89M more for his IP, something that would be worth billions if it worked? What particular purveyor of LENR technology do you believe is most "emergent" and what device or experiment can you point to which indicates that? If those are not fair and polite questions, please tell me why!

  • Quote

    Pathological skepticism unwarranted!

    But that's the point: never was skepticism more appropriate and less pathological than skepticism of Rossi after November 2011. I started out curious and faintly optimistic when I first heard about the ecat. The only problem was, if it was so easy, and could be done with such obviously crude equipment and absurdly gross tools, why had nobody found it before? But I stayed curious through the period where Rossi's claim of making a megawatt plant became completely ridiculous with the incredible farce he presented to his invited guests and an AP reporter. And then he crowned it with the supposed customer's supposed representative giving a supposed report. Then, it turned into an obvious scam and everything Rossi did afterwards along with examination of his past reinforced that impression. The only pathological thing here was the ease with which Rossi convinced some investors that he was telling the truth.

  • Quote

    During the presentation, House Minority Leader Joseph P. Deleon Guerrero, R-Saipan, expressed concern about the lack of proven experience on the part of GEC.

    Ya think?


    How weird they are always pitching this overseas. What's the matter? US scientists too smart? Not deserving? What?

  • Ya think?


    How weird they are always pitching this overseas. What's the matter? US scientists too smart? Not deserving? What?


    SOT,


    Probably has something to do with the regulatory environment in less developed countries being more receptive to their technology. Or at least that is what GEC thought, as it appears to this day they have not sold anything.


    As the articles show, GEC had big issues with being associated with the N word. In large part, that is what torpedoed the Guam deal. Maybe it has played a role with the others they were negotiating? That is why they are partnering up with NASA now...less hassle. Hopefully one day soon, we will get the whole story.

  • Shane D.

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    In large part, that is what torpedoed the Guam deal

    What torpedoed the deal the first time was, IIRC, that the person they were dealing with was impeached or indicted for corruption and no longer governed. Correct me if that's wrong. Also, they had no prototype or proof of concept reactor to show and far as I know from here, they still don't! I think there are just more gullible people in Guam's government and they are offset by fewer skeptics than here. Just a guess of course, not data.


    You know, I not only would have no objection but I would applaud these people if they were asking for a modest amount of funding to build a prototype reactor or some other demonstration device or method to prove that the nuclear reactions they promote actually exist and would work in a feasible power-generating reactor. But to start by proposing a massive power plant is well... absurd. And it is typical of what con men do.

  • You know, I not only would have no objection but I would applaud these people if they were asking for a modest amount of funding to build a prototype reactor or some other demonstration device or method to prove that the nuclear reactions they promote actually exist and would work in a feasible power-generating reactor. But to start by proposing a massive power plant is well... absurd. And it is typical of what con men do.


    SOT,


    GEC did something even better, they offered to build the Genie free, and only charge for the power. Not a smart move if they were conmen as you claim. No deliver the power, no get the pay. Not exactly how criminals work.


    There are some missing pieces to this story, and many things do not add up. But one thing I am certain of, is that JWK/GEC are not scammers. They may be wrong, or even over hyped their technology, but not out and out scammers. As I have pointed out to you, JWK has been in operation since the early 1973. They do business with many US and foreign government agencies. GEC (same people as JWK) is now working with NASA. They are legitimate, so enough with the con angle.

  • Shane D.

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    GEC did something even better, they offered to build the Genie free, and only charge for the power. Not a smart move if they were conmen as you claim. No deliver the power, no get the pay. Not exactly how criminals work.


    My suspicion: if they have a contract for building it free and selling the power, they will get investors. I am not saying the proposal is a scam. But investors are remarkably easy to fleece and it has been done a lot. Legitimate or not, with investors, the principals get paid. usually lots. So yeah, maybe free to the "customer" but not without investors. Remember, Rossi sells power now too and doesn't charge for reactors any more, I guess. LOL.


    This just doesn't smell right. If these guys were going to build a reactor, why have they not already done so? Or at least some sort of credible demo?


    Quote

    There are some missing pieces to this story, and many things do not add up.

    Then you should consider this classic and vintage line from the old but wonderful movie "House of Games": "In any con, it's the part you don't get that will get you." (I can't find the exact quote so this is a paraphrase)

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093223/?ref_=ttqt_qt_tt


    And as far as it being impossible for legitimate companies to con people, how long was Madoff's company seemingly legitimate and even top of the heap? Answer: decades. Just saying.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/j…eally-begin/#701a60a84ec8


    In my mind, Genie will be legitimate when it makes kilowatts or even megawatts as they claim, for long times without new fuel (they claim 50 "or even 100 years" for the design)

  • SOT,


    You start off saying "I am not saying the proposal is a scam", and then go on to propose it is a scam. Scams, scams everywhere, all the time says SOT! Yes, there are many dishonest people in the world, but more honest. How to decide who is the bad, and who not? In this case we have an established business, that in their 45 year history has never been involved in a scandal, so it is a good bet they are not involved in one now.


    Keep in mind also that one of those involved worked as a researcher with the Navy. The other worked *with* the Navy for over a decade. Now both...and the GEC team, are working with NASA. Then you have both going to this years ICCF 21 in Colorado, and giving presentations. Really, does this sound like some run of the mill scam operation? Be honest.

  • A summary about GEC on a Sunday


    Jay Wook Kim is an American of Korean descent. JWK Corp does not need investors in order to build LENR GeNie Gen5nuclear hybrid fusion fission power plants. JWK is quite solvent... to say the least. JWK continues to successfully carry out high dollar department of defense contracts.


    GEC is the 'daughter' company of JWK. Jay Wook Khim, Lawrence Forsley, and Pamela Mosier/Boss are the driving 'engine' of GEC, the Department of Defense provides 'steering'. That's how GEC ended up in Guam, the situation there is atypical DOD, summed up as SNAFU, a military term. The GEC board has also included Frank Charles Carlucci III (He served as head of the DOD as the cold fusion announcement broke out in 1989) Thomas Milburn “Tom” Davis III (Virginia’s 11th congressional district Congressman Davis was in office January 3, 1995 thru November 24, 2008), and also Norman Yoshio Mineta U.S. Congressman and Secretary of Transportation (“As the founder and former chairman of the Congressional Asian Pacific American Caucus, Norm worked to inform Members of Congress of the unique challenges facing Asian Pacific Americans in our nation,” said Bordallo. “I further appreciated Norm’s work to modernize and improve our infrastructure system in America as the longest serving Secretary of Transportation. I join the CAPAC in honoring Norm’s service and accomplishments, and on behalf of the people of Guam, I wish him a sincere Un dangkulo na Si Yu’os Ma’ase.”)


    In Saipan, Forsley states the GeNie SMG reactor, LENR power system, has already been 'deployed'; a military term. Take time to remember both the UK and US department of defence reports. Each state that emergent LENR technologies will bankrupt nations with sole oil dependent economies... leading to nation-state failure and terrorism. Also again, remember the US DOD report states that the conversion to LENR energy will be a greater (more powerful) transformation of the battlefield (theater of war) than the transition from horses to gasoline. Look at the authors of that report... see where they are now. JedRothwell Please tell us what you think of GEC.


    When a fissile nuclear reactor is developed and deployed by the U.S. Navy onto a Navy ship is it first approved by the NRC? If U.S. patents are filed during design and development, by the Navy and/or the contracted company(s), are those patents published (exposed to the public) or sequestered till the DOD gives permission to the patent office to publish them? Look at the first GEC SPAWAR patent history, seven years till being published, it was sequestered by the DOD.


    I found another article from the the 2012 GEC Guam story. GEC Lawrence Forsley gave a presentation on "green nuclear energy" before the Senate President and members of the House.


    Quote Forsley... “The technology that we are using has already been deployed commercially in the past.”


    gbgoblenote- How could that be... without (public) NRC approval and certification; unless safely deployed on a US Naval platform?


    Quote... "Forsley said they have yet to get certification from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission but as soon as they get their patent approval from the U.S. Patent Office, they will get the NRC certification."


    gbgoblenote- Way back in 2012, Forsley is saying, to a group of lawmakers, that the NRC approval is a slam dunk. The patent was approved less than a year later, in 2013 (which is the year the DOD allowed the patent office to publish it).


    It seems that Global Energy Corporation has a useful and working, non-fissile hybrid LENR reactor, developed by JWK (naval contractor) that has been deployed and which has NRC certification.


    If so, while also considering the bold commercialization claims of GEC, I fully expect to see a rapid increase in the phase out of the fissile nuclear power industry.


    Most existing nuclear power plants will adopt GEC for both thermal source and spent fuel remediation. Ones in the planning stages may go forward with GEC LENR thermal. Gigawatt power plants may be viewed as 'soon to be a thing of the past' with LENR on the scene; ROI on these may be deemed a risk, so some of these planned fissile nuclear plants may see funding halted.


    The DOD could not allow commercialization of SPAWAR LENR by GEC till they were well into the LENR transition phase, Now they have it fully in hand. Proof of this will be seen over time. The ongoing and successful LENR energy commercialization efforts of GEC will become increasingly more visible over the next year or so. They are: Large power plants - Space hardened power systems - Airline power systems

    The third one, "Airline power systems is my best guess, the other two are GEC published claims.


    GEC just updated both their website and the introduction to the You Tube SPAWAR presentation titled, "Twenty-Year History of Lattice-Enabled Nuclear Reactions (LENR) - Hiding in Plain Sight". The YouTube update adds the GEC NASA Plum Brook contract for a LENR space hardened power system. The GEC website update now states that the GEC power plant commercial development locations/global areas of interest are the Island Nations, the Middle East, Africa and Asia. This provides GEC with strong manufacturing capabilities and the US with a strong (LENR energy) influence in these regions which may help to mitigate the negative effect of emergent LENR energy technologies on oil dependent nations. These areas include both Saudi Arabia and Korea, which is where the I expect the first GEC power plants are being built. LENRIA provides readers with information about the matters of mitigation.

  • Shane D.

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    Really, does this sound like some run of the mill scam operation? Be honest.

    I am nothing if not honest... to a fault. No, the way your describe it, it does not sound like a run of the mill scam operation. But the way I see it, an operation that promised the sky and the moon five years ago, said at that time that they were on their fifth generation of established technology used by the military, and then did absolutely nothing worthwhile that we know of for more than four years, that does sound like a typical energy scam. Add to that the fact that they went to Guam to try to find support and then dealt with officials so corrupt that they were removed from office, well... that does still sound like a scam.


    Other than the reputation you accord to these folks, Shane, what have they actually done except make claims? Isn't that what scammers do, make claims, take money and not deliver?


    You and many other "believers" don't seem to grasp the concept of "I don't know." I did not say this is a scam. I said it has some attributes of a scam and a scam should be considered. I have insufficient evidence to know if it is a scam or not and I maintain you have insufficient evidence as well to claim they are a legitimate research effort based on good data.

  • Quote

    "Twenty-Year History of Lattice-Enabled Nuclear Reactions (LENR)

    If I am not mistaken, the "traditional" use of the acronym LENR is for Low Energy, not Lattice-Enabled, Nuclear Reactions. Another goofy part to this whole goofy story.


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    JWK Corp does not need investors in order to build LENR GeNie Gen5nuclear hybrid fusion fission power plants.

    So where can we see one? Where are test results? Where is evidence that the military "deployed it?" Oh, I know... someone somewhere said it. Sort of like flying pigs, so far.


    ---------------------------------------- The quote below is from 2013! ------------------------------



    Anything changed in 5 years? BTW, all the links I found from 2013 are deleted (404). Apparently, someone was not proud of the information they contained.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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    But Khim says the science has been repeatedly duplicated by the Navy, and has been proven, recognized and published.


    I suspect this simply refers to the CR39 work again in which case, it is not proven and recognized, it is controversial. And to go from the possible detection of neutrons to the idea that you can enter into a contract for a massive power producing reactor based on that possible detection is ridiculous. A whole lot is missing here and the believers don't seem to have a clue.

  • Gregory Byron Goble

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    If seven of twenty comments display willful ignorance I will ask that his comments be moved to the "Will Ignorance" thread.

    Why don't you try making your arguments for why what I wrote was incorrect, instead of writing meaningless insults? You can do that, can you not?


    Did these people not make the identical claims five years ago? Is it not true that absolutely no evidence has been presented since then that the concept works (ie. can truly be used to manufacture a working reactor)? Is it not true not that there is no evidence suggesting any of this theoretical technology has ever been reduced to practice much less "deployed" by anyone anywhere?


    Appeals to authority and reputation such as you and Shane D. are making are not evidence. For the most part, they incorporate logical fallacies.

  • WOW


    Impressed by the speed of seven of twenty response time... Not by his comment.


    Hey seven of twenty, When I post do you jump up when an alarm goes off? How do you do it?


    Next time take a bit of time off... study about GEC today.


    Then talk... talk... talk. Without ignorance.

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    Three years ago (by mistake.. in a Swiss news journal) the use of the new reactor in the new carrier type has been announced...

    OK. Which Journal? Link please?


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    Hey seven of twenty, When I post do you jump up when an alarm goes off? How do you do it?

    Says the guy who just responded to me in real time! Goble, you are really comical.


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    Dude... calm down. Stop dogging this thread. You have stated your opinion of GEC, I continue to study the situation and write about it. Got a problem with that?

    Please study away. I only have a problem when people write nonsense. Have a problem with that?


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    Next time take a bit of time off... study about GEC today.


    Is this the web site I am supposed to study? Four pages, one of which says "under construction" and no information whatever except for brief sketches of the owners? Impressive!

    http://www.gec.solutions/home.html

  • In the first three paragraphs of this Sunday summary I state facts, NO?

    JWK/GEC does not, and has never yet publicly sought out investors.

    gbgoblestatement - JWK/GEC has deep pockets and no financial problems that they can not solve.

    Anyone disagree?


    In the fourth paragraph I begin asking questions.


    The rest of my summary of GEC on a Sunday posting is both GEC published/stated fact and deductive speculation on my part. Clear?

  • If... Seems... Most likely see... I speculate using investigative skills and study... dig... study... dig it? Discuss each or exhibit an 'I Don't Know' (innocent ignorance) or an 'I Know' based on ignorance (willful ignorance) Please do not bring up an old website that doesn't quite do it for you. I have provided the newer links for you to connect with, NO? Look at the GEC NASA Plum Brook Contract from 2017/2018 which GEC is footing the bill for. Dummies?

  • Off topic? Perhaps perhaps not.

    Searching for a solution... Seven of Twenty deserves his own thread.


    PROBLEMS

    Problems, problems, problems...

    Oi' vey!

    Go ahead Take the plunge

    Dive deep beyond the surface of the problem

    Find yourself suspended in a sea of solutions

    Infinite in their manifestation, variety, and form

    Enjoy

    Problems, problems, problems...

    Oi' Vey!

    Go ahead
    Dive deep
    Enjoy

    gbgoble2012


    Run-on-prose/poetry

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    Through hope earth heals soon nature erupt triumphant through hope earth heals soon... YES?

  • Yeah, I wasted time watching that video too. Back on topic my tush. It is like on ECW where somehow Andeavor news is relevant to Rossi because some guy who claims to have worked for them was able to calculate a COP of over 300 without measuring the power input to the device.