LENR is occurring in SAFIRE

    I think that phase 1 of SAFIRE is doable for an amateur. A glass enclosure that holds hydrogen as seen below might be within the capabilities of the the amateur scientist. Unlike many other types of LENR experiments, the experimenter knows that LENR will occur in any metal inserted into one of the double layers. The sub atomic particles that comprise the plasma are LENR active. An experimenter can use these SAFIRE features to perform all sorts of interesting LENR based activities.

    It might be that the SunCell is demonstrating the same plasma based LENR reaction as SAFIRE is. The SunCell can produce self sustained plasma based reactions that can last for minutes. It would be informative if the SunCell reaction can be produced using SAFIRE methods. This could inform Mills that his theory of the reaction may not be the correct one and that his patents might need to be adjusted accordingly to add LENR to his thinking. The SAFiRE reaction looks like an open source reaction freely available to anyone to use in reactor development.

    See some Phase 1 experimental action in SAFIRE.




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    I think that downsizing the SAFIRE experiment will work. The key to the reaction is the formation of the double layer. I now beleive that the new Rossi SK reactor is using a pure plasma reaction like SAFIRE.


    It would be interesting if someone can ask Rossi if the SK rector is covered by the same patent as the QX. If not, the SK reactor is a pure plasma reaction that does not use fuel and an open source one at that.

    Quote from axil

    There is not much of a difference between the SAFIRE architecture and the experimental setup of Alan's experiment.


    Alan can change the input power format to DC current, the hydrogen to protium, and add the ability to change the pressure of the hydrogen. Alan can add a few diodes in this power circuit to get a DC current source, and that source might not need to be a high voltage one.


    Axil, thank you for recycling my illustration of a Meshuganon experiment. But in my mind the credibility of the previously claimed observations of these crazy particles has decreased from very low to close to infinitesimal.


    http://atom-ecology.russgeorge…/data-speaks-to-real-men/


    By the way, the power supply already is DC.

    Quote from H-G Branzell

    Axil, thank you for recycling my illustration of a Meshuganon experiment. But in my mind the credibility of the previously claimed observations of these crazy particles has decreased from very low to close to infinitesimal.


    http://atom-ecology.russgeorge…/data-speaks-to-real-men/


    By the way, the power supply already is DC.


    The Alan experiment has been conducted by young plasma students for over a 100 years. This goes to show that there is not much new under the Sun. The glow tube experiment is a demonstration of the Goldstein–Wehner law.


    See


    http://campus.mst.edu/aplab/index_files/PlasmaTheory.pdf


    Plasma Theory for Undergraduate Education - Missouri S&T


    plasma_discharge_tube_480x357.jpg


    The SAFIRE experiment is the spherical version of this plasma tube experiment. The Double layers are produced in the plasma tube as well as in the spherical SAFIRE mode. What Alan did with the metal foil is identical to what SAFIRE did by inserting the Langmuir Probe into the double layer. The two experiments produced the same LENR effect when the metal was inserted into the double layer. In both these systems, the interaction between the metal and the double layer is to produce a population of surface plasmon polaritons that merge to generate a polariton BEC.


    In this plasmoid generation mode of the LENR reaction where the petal Condensate intercepts the energy output that the double layer reaction produces, that energy is reformatted in the singular way that the petal condensate is constrained to produce as a analog black hole. That reformatting process includes a very wasteful segment of the total output. The condensate produces muons (aka Meshuganon) with that fraction of total output energy that is essentially lost to the far field. Muons has a long delay time and they travel a long way from the place in which they were created. As Alan has observed, the generation of gamma radiation when the tube is heavily shielded is a sure sign that muons are being produced by the inserted metal surface.

    In the SAFIRE reaction, no condensate is formed and therefor all the energy that the LENR reaction produces in the formation of helium is retained as heat output. I predict that Helium 3 will be detected in a spectrogram of the gases in the glow tube over some extended period of its operation. Excess heat will also be produced by the glow tube in the same why that SAFIRE produces excess heat.


    Alan should take the glow tube experiment to ICCF-21. The SAFIRE people will greatly profit from the Muon demo.

    Someone who calls himself Axil wrote:


    ``When we insert a bit of metal into one of the double layers of the SAFIRE plasma, we can derive the petal condensate soliton on the surface of that metal. This ability to move up from a basic causation level to a more complicated levels shows us that the LENR reaction can be symmetric. The Hutchison effect uses this reaction symmetry to produce LENR effects in metals. This ability to move up the causation chain unlocks the quantum mechanical toolkit of the petal condensate soliton that the LENR reaction uses and makes them accessible at a macro level.``


    Could I ask what your name is. Is it Axil. What is your last name. You wrote the above sentences as if you personally have inserted ``a bit of metal`` into the double layers of the SAFIRE plasma. Are you personally working with this group. If so, I have questions.


    One question, though they maybe said so in the video, is actually how hot the electrode gets by their estimation and also how hot does the plasma, or any part of the plasma that is involved with the transmutation, actually get. I only watched the video once, and didn`t even watch the whole thing, so I don`t know what temperatures they think they are reaching.

    • Official Post

    Ed,


    Axil is a "Verified" member, which means we know who he is. Not his real name, but he has good credentials. Which reminds me of...along with your detailed observations, there are many unexplained, but verified physical phenomena looking for a home in the standard model:


    Lightning in the eyewall of a hurricane beamed antimatter toward the ground


    Date: May 21, 2018


    Hurricane Patricia, which battered the west coast of Mexico in 2015, was the most intense tropical cyclone ever recorded in the Western Hemisphere. Amid the extreme violence of the storm, scientists observed something new: a downward beam of positrons, the antimatter counterpart of electrons, creating a burst of powerful gamma-rays and x-rays.


    Detected by an instrument aboard NOAA's Hurricane Hunter aircraft, which flew through the eyewall of the storm at its peak intensity, the positron beam was not a surprise to the UC Santa Cruz scientists who built the instrument. But it was the first time anyone has observed this phenomenon.


    According to David Smith, a professor of physics at UC Santa Cruz, the positron beam was the downward component of an upward terrestrial gamma-ray flash that sent a short blast of radiation into space above the storm. Terrestrial gamma-ray flashes (TGFs) were first seen in 1994 by space-based gamma-ray detectors. They occur in conjunction with lightning and have now been observed thousands of times by orbiting satellites. A reverse positron beam was predicted by theoretical models of TGFs, but had never been detected.

    "This is the first confirmation of that theoretical prediction, and it shows that TGFs are piercing the atmosphere from top to bottom with high-energy radiation," Smith said. "This event could have been detected from space, like almost all the other reported TGFs, as an upward beam caused by an avalanche of electrons. We saw it from below because of a beam of antimatter (positrons) sent in the opposite direction."


    One unexpected implication of the study, published May 17 in the Journal of Geophysical Research: Atmospheres, is that many TGFs could be detected via the reverse positron beam using ground-based instruments at high altitudes. It's not necessary to fly into the eye of a hurricane.

    "We detected it at an altitude of 2.5 kilometers, and I estimated our detectors could have seen it down to 1.5 kilometers. That's the altitude of Denver, so there are a lot of places where you could in theory see them if you had an instrument in the right place at the right time during a thunderstorm," Smith said.


    Despite the confirmation of the reverse positron beam, many questions remain unresolved about the mechanisms that drive TGFs. Strong electric fields in thunderstorms can accelerate electrons to near the speed of light, and these "relativistic" electrons emit gamma-rays when they scatter off of atoms in the atmosphere. The electrons can also knock other electrons off of atoms and accelerate them to high energies, creating an avalanche of relativistic electrons. A TGF, which is an extremely bright flash of gamma-rays, requires a large number of avalanches of relativistic electrons.


    "It's an extraordinary event, and we still don't understand how it gets so bright," Smith said.

    The source of the positrons, however, is a well known phenomenon in physics called pair production, in which a gamma ray interacts with the nucleus of an atom to create an electron and a positron. Since they have opposite charges, they are accelerated in opposite directions by the electric field of the thunderstorm. The downward moving positrons produce x-rays and gamma-rays in their direction of travel when they collide with atomic nuclei, just like the upward moving electrons.

    "What we saw in the aircraft are the gamma-rays produced by the downward positron beam," Smith said.


    First author Gregory Bowers, now at Los Alamos National Laboratory, and coauthor Nicole Kelley, now at Swift Navigation, were both graduate students at UC Santa Cruz when they worked together on the instrument that made the detection. The Airborne Detector for Energetic Lightning Emissions (ADELE) mark II was designed to observe TGFs up close by measuring x-rays and gamma-rays from aircraft flown into or above thunderstorms.


    Getting too close to a TGF could be hazardous, although the risk drops off rapidly with distance from the source. The gamma-ray dose at a distance of one kilometer would be negligible, Smith said. "It's hypothetically a risk, but the odds are quite small," he said. "I don't ask pilots to fly into thunderstorms, but if they're going anyway I'll put an instrument on board."

    Smith's group was the first to detect a TGF from an airplane using an earlier instrument, the ADELE mark I. In that case, the upward beam from the TGF was detected above a thunderstorm. For this study, the ADELE mark II flew aboard NOAA's Hurricane Hunter WP-3D Orion during the Atlantic hurricane season.

    Quote from Ed Lewis

    One question, though they maybe said so in the video, is actually how hot the electrode gets by their estimation and also how hot does the plasma, or any part of the plasma that is involved with the transmutation, actually get. I only watched the video once, and didn`t even watch the whole thing, so I don`t know what temperatures they think they are reaching.

    Putting things into context...



    I have been interested in SAFIRE as a possible LENR platform since 2015 when I saw a video where some unexplained reactions were happening in the phase 1 SAFIRE experiment. Two of these unexplained reactions held exciting possibilities as aout-of-the-box LENR reaction. First, transmutation of an element on the hydrogen gas with an atomic weight of 3 was being produced. and second, huge bursts of energy were produced which ranged up to 20 million watts of power.


    Even way back then, SAFIRE information mentioned that there was LENR going on in SAFIRE. But the SAFIRE system is comprised of just hydrogen...no palladium...no nickel...no metal...how could LENR be occurring in SAFIRE. This situation was very interesting and possibly revealing.


    Now in 2018, the new status report video shows how a metal interacts with the double layer that forms in a hydrogen plasma. The tungsten probe should have easily withstood the temperature in the plasma. The temperatures in the plasma is well under the melting point of tungsten. Yes, the electron energy level (7.5 Ev) is equivalent to a black-body temperature of 80,000C , but electron energy levels are not temperature levels.


    The tungsten probe should have withstood the environment in the double layer. Instead, the tungsten probe vaporized in nanoseconds...it did not first melt. A thick tungsten probe version partially vaporized but what remained looked unaffected. But its interior was transmuted into various other elements even when its surface remained pure tungsten. Anther telling revelation is that the alumina insulation held up well in the double layer.


    The .thunderbolts. crew has been interested in double layers in plasma since .thunderbolts first began as a primary format that appears in plasma in space.


    http://www.thunderbolts.info/eg_draft/eg_chapter_6.htm


    We learn from this old paper that the SAFIRE experiment is the spherical version of this plasma tube experiment. The Double layers in plasma are produced in the plasma tube as well as in the spherical SAFIRE plasma mode. What Alan/Russ did with the metal foil in their plasma tube experiment is identical to what SAFIRE did by inserting the Langmuir Probe into the double layer. The two experiments produced the same LENR effect when the metal was inserted into the double layer. In both these systems, the interaction between the metal and the double layer is to produce a population of surface plasmon polaritons that merge to generate a polariton BEC.


    The Alan/Russ plasma tube experiment has been conducted by young plasma students for over a 100 years. This goes to show that there is not much new under the Sun. The glow tube experiment is a demonstration of the Goldstein–Wehner law.


    See


    http://campus.mst.edu/aplab/index_files/PlasmaTheory.pdf


    Plasma Theory for Undergraduate Education - Missouri S&T


    plasma_discharge_tube_480x357.jpg


    Detecting double layers in plasma physics is the first thing that these students learn is plasma school. But the most telling clue is the production of gamma radiation when the emissions of the metal interaction with the double layer plasma is shielded by a metal foil. This shielding method is how Holmlid built his peer reviewed muon detector. What the Holmlid experiment is producing and what metal irradiation by plasma is producing is the same thing...polaritons.

    Quote from axil

    Now in 2018, the new status report video shows how a metal interacts with the double layer that forms in a hydrogen plasma. The tungsten probe should have easily withstood the temperature in the plasma. The temperatures in the plasma is well under the melting point of tungsten. Yes, the electron energy level (7.5 Ev) is equivalent to a black-body temperature of 80,000C , but electron energy levels are not temperature levels.


    axil : The base of the LENR reaction is the synchronization of the nuclear magnetic moments of the involved nuclei. The requirement for catalysts is a low level "nuclear gamma-state" with a reasonable magnetic moment 183W has two low energy gamma states that are reasonably low and compatible with the proton magnetic moment quantization.


    The energy in rotations is not accounted for in temperature statistics as it is usually "not" interacting kinetically. But if the halve lives of the states of the involved elements are different then magnetic transfer will lead to low range XUV that immediately heats any probe.


    In fact 183W (abundance about 14.3%) is very attractive as the higher gamma state (99keV) has a shorter halve live than the lower state (46.48keV) what leads to a strong em-pulse with field reversion !!

    This synchroinisation seam indeed plausable and after studying the two atom molecule models in GUTCP I think one can say that the screening effect than we know enhance fusion rate is not due to

    decreased repulsion, but a syncronisation of the magnetic moments that aim one atom against the other. For one atom to hit another atom you need excess kinetic energy to keep straight paths and

    not deflect. WIth screening and hence the aiming the hit is plauseble at lower energy levels.


    Regards

    Stefan

    To see this aiming, consider the electron orbiting two nucleus, it has an eliptic shape and the energetical minima is for the current to move naturally along the ellipsis, now if the nucleus

    misses the other nucleus you will rotate the ellipsis which it would not like to do due to the magnetic vector of the electron pointing along the long ellipsis axis.


    my 2c

    • Official Post

    Wyttenbach do you know what is it?

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    The presenter also claims that F-135 jet engine generates more heat than anticipated and pilots report excessive fatique.


    See min 32 as well

    In the section of the SAFIRE video showing the large tungsten probe's reaction to the plasma, there first was a large production of energy in the plasma that lasted a few seconds. This was the time that pumping of energy into the polaritons was underway. This was a time of high energy production. The plasma next failed but the surface of the tungsten probe still produced a large amount of energy from what the presenter terms thermionic emissions.


    This was the time when the surface of the tungsten was self pumping. We call this self sustain mode. The surface of the tungsten probe looked unaffected on the outside. It did not vaporize, but doubtless the surface released much metal vapor into the gas around the probe.


    A multi megawatt level burst of energy release did not occur during the polariton segment of this reaction because the probe was not destroyed by the energy that was released.


    There was a large amount of metal vapor in the gas around the tungsten probe and yet there was no production of a multi megawatt level burst of energy released as would be expected if the nano-particles that had condensed from the tungsten probe were the only carrier of the LENR reaction.

    This leads me to conclude that both the metal vapor from the probe, the metal surface of the probe, and a plasma only reaction that does not involve metal are all producing the LENR reactions in the SAFIRE system.

    A uncomplicated reactor concept might obviously emerge from the SAFIRE reaction.


    A stainless steel or nickel double walled plasma tube filled with an appropriate coolant has metal fins that are positioned to impinge into the double layers of a SAFIRE like plasma. The double layers will induce the LENR reaction on the surface of the metal fins. The fins could be filled with a circulating coolant.


    The SAFIRE reaction might be able to penetrate the surface of the metal fins and interact with the coolant flowing through the inside of the fins. The metal tube is confined in a magnetic bubble that confines any charged particles that might be generated by the SAFIRE reaction until those sub atomic particles decay and liberate their energy content.


    A coolant circulation pump could circulate the coolant through the double walled metal pipe and associated fins to a heat exchanger where the heat generated by the SAFIRE reaction could be converted in such a way to utilize the power contained therein.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    That is a theoretical study. In other words, somebody's opinion. It is not an experimental observation


    Well this is your chance to gain practical knowledge of polariton coherent behavior. But seriously in theory, very high temperature polariton operation is clearly deemed possible.

    Quote from axil

    Well this is your chance to gain practical knowledge of polariton coherent behavior. But seriously in theory, very high temperature polariton operation is clearly deemed possible.


    axil : So far we only have experimental prove for LENR. Theories with no experimental backing are not worth to be discussed.


    The paper you mention is interesting for cavity based LENR in a classical Rossi like setup but all experiments I looked into a year ago are at very low pressure. This is a prerequisite if you understand the Bose-Einstein formula. This also explains that extrapolating any temperature is not quite easy and just mathematical...

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