Discussion of Subtle Atomics claimed element transmutations

  • http://subtleatomics.com/electrode-transmutations


    They say:


    Experiments



    Method: Elecrodes from high current, low voltage pulse discharge reactions through H2O were analysed visually and by XRF analysis. Post reaction elemental compostion of electrode tip reaction zone was compared to the elemental composition of the unreacted bolt heads.

    Observations: Visual observations showed significant changes in some electrode metal surface types from reactions. XRF analysis indicates changes in elemental compositon for some electrode types.

    Conclusion: Changes in elemental compostion indicate that low energy nuclear reactions can occur during high current, low voltage, pulse discharge reactions, when specific catalyst electrodes are used.

    they have beautiful pictures, and bad science.



    Specifically, they have done XPS elemental analyses of electrodes before and after H2O electrolysis, and find changes in composition.


    Most strangely, they attribute these changes to nuclear transmutation on zero evidence. You would expect elemental changes in these experiments due to elements migrating to/from the electrolyte, and also elements moving to/from the surface. XPS, analysing only the surface, is peculiarly sensitive to surface changes and thus is inherently unlikely to provide evidence for transmutation if all that is seen is elemental change rather than significant isotopic shifts. A large increase in some element known not to be present in either electrode or electrolyte might do it - but at low levels, and given that the XPS data requires only a very small quantity of material, that is very difficult to ensure. But the fact that isotope ratios stay constant is a big red flag against transmutation which would not normally keep to natural isotope ratios.


    It is difficult to say more because they appear not to have documented these results: perhaps a scientific paper will be forthcoming - although given the web claims they make the word scientific is probably a misnomer.


    Any LENR researcher ought to be concerned about this stuff which is pseudo-science (very publicly) asking for money from investors, and claiming to be LENR research. The rossi effect? (I don't mean these guys are dishonest, but they seem to be jumping on a gravy train asking for money based on no significant results).

  • Any LENR researcher ought to be concerned about this stuff which is pseudo-science (very publicly) asking for money from investors, and claiming to be LENR research.


    THHuxleynew : This definitely is LENR research. But I agree that it is of no value concerning a verification of LENR. Under high temperature/fields we always see sedimentation effects/ solid state ion transport. Thus a change in isotopes concentration proves nothing. More relevant are analysis of isotope compositions like the one Biberian made of the famous Fleischmann Platinum electrode. There we clearly can see that LENR happened, because of a strong change in isotope composition of the base Pd and the follow up Ag!


    Also absolutely convincing for LENR are results of high concentrations of new isotopes, that were not present prior to the experiment. But here too sedimentation/aggregation must be taken into account, respectively must be excluded.


    Thus it is absolutely necessary to define a base standard for LENR certification. It is time to stop listen to everybody that is noisy enough and not willing to improve his presentation. But I believe subtle atomic will deliver more details if they get asked to do so.

  • Anyone ever heard of this Simon Brink? First time for me. From his website (experiments), he appears to have his fingers in many LENR pies. Good he is attending the ICCF21. The other attendees will be able to feel him out, to find out if he is legitimate. Hard to hide lack of knowledge on the subject, or bad intention at a LENR conference.


    Here is his abstract: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sp7…preview=Brink-Simon-1.pdf


    Forget Simon Brink, he is a R. Mills hydrino acolyte.

  • Don't forget the air...https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.13182/FST94-A30331


    kirkshanahan : Oxigen (not Fe) was the missing part in the reaction you link. They wrote:


    In the second series of experiments, which were done with the water trough fully covered, the amount of iron in the carbon residue decreased significantly (20 to 100 ppm). Here also there were large variations in the iron concentration in the residue, although the experiments were performed under identical conditions.


    12C+16O --> 28Si is a nice supposed LENR reaction. 28Si is the nucleus with the highest 4(6)D symmetry and absolutely compliant with the advanced NPP model. But this equation is to simple. In reality there is an intermediate step that involves the 14N and 14C structure that finally combine to iron. So for me it could also be the missing Nitrogen.

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