ICCF21 Thread

  • DW: ... "the rejuvenation of this hunt may just prove to be worth it in the long run (perhaps for us, and/or our children, and / or our children's children). ..."

    >>> Too much children


    SD: ... "I can not say anything really sticks out as earth shattering."

    >>> Flatline

  • I believe. Rossi mentioned something on JONP indicating that to be the case also

    Hmmm. that would be interesting. I do not read JONP, but I will have to see if I can find the post. It would be rare (I do not remember other cases) of where Rossi stated someone walked away as such. He talked snakes and clowns, evil corporations etc. But usually when a seemingly legit entity was on the scene and then disappeared, Rossi simply did not mention them anymore or he vilified them as "snakes". Such as the NATO colonel, the various "aerospace engineers" that have "collaborated" with him over the years. All disappeared never to be mentioned again. The many customers of which he sold numerous (13 units) of 1MW plants to. They seem to simply dissolve into the fog of memory, no word nor reason. The believers are content to never bring them up as they know it would mean excommunication from the church. Whether it be JONP or ECW. (As the recent episode with Mr. Russ showed)


    Oh well. I think it clear that the court depositions exposed Rossi to the core. Perhaps one of these days the court of irrefutable facts will show his true colors as well. "F8 or F9" ! 8o

  • Shane D, congratulations to dare to say things, the true reality of things.

    A lot of excitement before each ICCF, many disillusions a few weeks later.

    Three quarters about lenr's papers are related to Pd / D cells, for example.

    What an originality !

    The recent "japanese" works which had XH, by Ni/Pd particle way, are only replications of things already done for 10 years now.

    Following this observation, we understand that Lenr problem should not money necessarily but rather inspiration.

    The old guard is overwhelmed because they realize that recipe wasn't written in their old school books.

    So called secrecy in Lenr field both with so called lake of money well helps to hide failures.

    I don't know whether to feel frustrated as you seem to be, but rather angry.

    Why ?

    Because many newcomers refer to old ones work , therefore at the end not a lot to keep, if you consider low levels of results.

    Probably better to put eyes on a blank sheet.

    DF

  • Cydonia,


    That is just my opinion judging from the audios I listened too. Others may find them much more encouraging. If so, we would like to hear from them. Also, as Jed says, the presentation slides will reveal more, and hopefully show more to be excited about.


    Maybe there was nothing earth shattering IMO, but that does not diminish the importance of someone new to the field such as Beiting replicating Arata. Or someone like Letts/Higgins, and the IH team getting some good solid wattage. Or GEC working with NASA, and as you said, the Japanese replicating others works from the past 10 years. Those are all important, and good signs the field will be around long enough to eventually piece everything together.


    If you want to call me frustrated, it is because there looks to be nothing close to commercial value yet. It is a different arm of LENR, where the rules, and transparency change. Frustratingly so. Understandable maybe, when you get into funding, IP, and making a $, but all seem to follow the same dead end pattern, where their secrets, and IP follow them to the grave. Maybe this time will be different. Russ and Alan are trying their best to make it so. :) We shall see,

  • At ICCF-21 I had the opportunity to chat with Peter Hagelstein, where the Lipinski patent came up. He indicated that he had only looked at the Google version. I suggested it might be useful to look over the original WIPO application of 2014. I mentioned that it did not seem to be available at all. This is a bit of a shame, since that 100+ page document had a depth and abundance of revealing details. The key, in my experience, to reading that original was ignoring or skimming the first ~19 pp of theory. The results reported and the Q values become ever more impressive the deeper into their application one reads.


    Perhaps Jed or someone else with foresight managed to archive that original WIPO application "as it was". My own document handling skills unfortunately failed to save it in a survivable original form. All the old links I now find here are "404" dead.

  • Here is the link Wyttembach kindly provided for the Lipinski's 2014 WIPO application:


    Li-proton fusion WO2014189799-PAMPH-330-2-1.pdf

    Link above doesn't work so if you share a private mail, I can send you your request.


    It's interesting to have shared your feeling about a great member from old guard.

    Once again, old guard seems to focus on his own work filled by complex mathematical fog, no more .. another explanation for lack of XH ...

  • Cydonia, Sorry that link is not working. I was able to download the "corrected original" from an emailed link... presumably having that link as an attachment. But, the absence of the arrowbox at the end suggests that it is indeed somehow dead through the LENR Forum's system.


    Very good thing about the ICCF was seeing so many "old guard" folks face to face. It seemed to me that I already knew them well....

  • Cydonia, Sorry that link is not working. I was able to download the "corrected original" from an emailed link... presumably having that link as an attachment. But, the absence of the arrowbox at the end suggests that it is indeed somehow dead through the LENR Forum's system.


    Very good thing about the ICCF was seeing so many "old guard" folks face to face. It seemed to me that I already knew them well....

    Yes, after some web research i found file you said about Lipinski 2012.

    Unfortunally too big to be shared directly by the forum.

    However it seems to be more complete than next release, thanks.

  • The Lipinski UGC patent describes such detail that it should at least be replicable by others. Their focus has apparently been on lithium and protons where the proton energies are typically well under under 2 keV.


    There may be similar reactions involving other elements that are yet to be explored. If there is some validity to their theory "unified gravity", then it should also be able to predict other such low energy routes to fusion.

  • Below are 2 suggestions, since we are drifting quite a ways from ICCF-21.That is, the Swartz as appellant, Leonie Brinkema adjudication and his by now retrospectively criticized pro se effort, is a quite important and a separable non-ICCF-21 topic, and not necessarily for just those who want to write or read stuff directly related to ICCF-21. That is a quite important and a separable NON-ICCF-21 topic, and not necessarily of any interest at all for just those who want to write or read stuff directly related to ICCF-21. It is important to keep the ICCF-21 topic going since, since some here seem, or pretend, to know little to nothing about it.


    However, in view of the substantial topic drifting, I suggest one or two new threads, with appropriate reassignment of several recent posts to:


    1. A new thread in which to discuss Mitchell Swartz' latest and perhaps his earlier legal efforts.

    2. And another to discuss the many other important legal issues relating to IP in LENR that surely could be usefully discussed, perhaps in yet a third thread.

  • My only light in the tunnel are banal lab work

    • Nedo funded 6 organization replicated experiment.
    • IH patents that shows some lab work with better control.

    I don't understand the maturity of GEC's claims, as I was depressed few years ago by the same team... I'm probably under estimating their claims.


    Lab is the way.

  • Alain,


    I agree. With their NEDO success January 2018 Nikkei article about cold fusion I think we can at least count on the Japanese to carry on the research for a long time.


    Here in the states we have IH's teams, whom reported some solid results at Boulder. They will be doing the research until the money runs out. Hopefully they will have a product before that happens. BEC just had their second replication by SRI, with a new round of funding successfully completed. They will be around for years to come. And lastly, Duncan's Seashore Company/Texas Tech, is rumored to be close to publishing their findings. If those are positive, it should be a huge boost for the field.


    Then there is India which reported some promising XH and transmutation results, India back in the LENR game so funds should flow into the research there for a few more years at least. Russia...I can not figure them out.

    So I see a future for LENR. Worst case scenario, we can always count on the garage tinkerers. And let us not forget Rossi...he will be developing his various products for years to come to feed his growing real estate empire. ;)

  • The one bright spot may be GEC/Forsley.

    I think the one bright spot is the Aerospace Corporation replication of the Arata - Takahashi experiment, with material made in a U.S. national lab (Ames). It is good to see this experiment replicated outside Japan with material from outside Japan, because as far as I know the Japanese researchers have not been cooperative or willing to share material. They were not cooperative or informative at ICCF21.

  • Quote

    The one bright spot may be GEC/Forsley.


    Yes? Well, so far, all they have done is talk. For what now? Three years? Five? No prototypes, no proof of concept, no credible mathematical models, nothing, nada. If that's a bright spot for you, the rest is really dim indeed.


    AlainCo

    Quote

    I don't understand the maturity of GEC's claims, as I was depressed few years ago by the same team... I'm probably under estimating their claims.


    For once, I think you're right on and correct. I don't think being depressed about these people is underestimating them at all.

  • Yes? Well, so far, all they have done is talk. For what now? Three years? Five? No prototypes, no proof of concept, no credible mathematical models, nothing, nada. If that's a bright spot for you, the rest is really dim indeed.


    SOT,


    That is why I stopped inviting you to the New Years party! Such a party pooper. ;( And actually, GEC working with NASA is about as good as it gets in LENR. If we can not be a little hopeful about that, we might as well close up shop and go home. Although, I would have to agree with Jed that Beiting, and Aerospace is promising also. I forgot though; is Aerospace going to allow a follow-up?

  • Quote

    And actually, GEC working with NASA is about as good as it gets in LENR.

    How good is that? How is NASA's Zawotny doing with his chips that supposedly were going to test combinations of elements and compounds to find the best ones for LENR? That was what, five years ago? Six?


  • Secrecy is one reason why I've been quiet lately, among others. Several months ago, after a period of intensive study consisting of obsessive compulsive all-night-long literature searches, I reached the conclusion that ultra-high-power LENR+ (or whatever funky term you want to use) is likely a ubiquitous phenomenon that a multitude of researchers have witnessed. But there are a multitude of problems moving forward from unexplained laboratory reactor meltdown to practical "guaranteed to work" technology: the hardcore academic personalities don't seem to have the desire to recreate or even enhance an effect they view as potentially dangerous, other researchers who are more courageous don't have the resources (money, labor, time) to boldly pursue these anomalies, and the very few individuals who figure out what's going on in their system and gain a practical understanding of how to make them work repeatedly and consistently contract the truly awful affliction of inventors syndrome (A.K.A Patterson Syndrome, Rossi Syndrome, me356 syndrome, etc).


    They realize that the technology, once you gain an adequate understanding and know how that comes from hands on experience, is fundamentally simple; with proper instruction even a caveman could build a high temp reactor capable of self sustain (until it melts down at least). This leads them into a thought chain which makes them realize a few significant truths: there are lots of potential competitors around (ignoring the fact the market is immensely vast with room for everyone), the technology is so powerful governments will likely attempt to apply staunch regulations on it's usage and proliferation (ignoring the fact a technology this simple will never be able to be controlled), and there is a huge amount of room for rapid improvement (letting them get carried away with better and better implementations). Finally, they conclude, "if I'm going to make anything from all my time, labor, and money sunk into this, I have to keep my know how secret." I think they internally justify this because they believe the tech is so simple that it is bound to emerge in a big way at any time. However, the conundrum is that birds of a feather flock together and individuals with weaponized autism (maybe that's a little too extreme of a term) think alike and ALL seem to go dark.


    My personal best estimate of the root of this technology is that various spheromak related phenomenon are at the core of a wide range of LENR experiments and reactions (probably not all). What's so fascinating about this phenomenon is that it directly relates to a wide range of other technologies that I won't go into at this time. I can't also help but wonder if individuals like me356 recognize how an understanding of the phenomenon behind their tech could accelerate scientific progress in a wide array of fields.


    Anyway, I'm in agreement that secrecy is a huge problem.

  • Thank you Director for the candid reply. We need more of that in LENR, as has been said by many an insider. No one is going to save the planet with a secret, and so far no one keeping a secret has made a penny.


    Good to see you active again. I was surprised you did not have a conversation with Ed Lewis when he was around. You two seem to be on the same wavelength.

  • You are very welcome, Shane.


    I love the statement, "no one is going to save the planet with a secret." This is truer than you can realize. During my years of armchair study of various topics, I'm convinced there are multiple groups in several fields keeping potentially Earth saving secrets to themselves. In many cases, the motivation for secrecy is financial. Other times, these truths are potentially so revolutionary that they could shatter entrenched paradigms. Interestingly, what helps many of these secrets remain hidden is the crackpots (using an often derogatory word here that I don't like to use) and snake oil salesmen that muddy the waters so the real truths remain obscure.


    I haven't been in communication, hardly at all, with anyone in the LENR or other exotic fields, for several months now. I admit that I could very well be deluding myself to a certain extent, but I reached a point in my study that made me start seeing how spheromaks related to a wide range of phenomenon: natural, technological, and even supernatural/spiritual. Yeah, that sounds crazy. But the evidence IS out there and IS convincing. The problem was that to try and unify into a coherent easy to communicate framework what I had grasped would have required me to make a long term commitment -- without external support, help, or funding -- while continuing to ignore needs and goals in my real-world life. I stepped back from the cliff.


    While I'm trying in some meager way to handle various personal issues in my life and try to find some small amount of happiness, I figured I should come back here and make some posts. Maybe I can guide a few people with a tad more resources than myself down the same path so that they can do what I couldn't responsibly do.