Brillouin Energy Corporation (BEC) updates.

Very interesting, @LLC -- thanks for that and glad you are being cautious. It's nothing I can prove but I've always felt that the way Godes started out with his news releases to Sterling Allan seemed... a bit creepy. Just a feeling, nothing tangible. Keep on being cautious. However, while I thought their competence was questionable, I did not see anything to suggest dishonesty.

It will be interesting to see if their new calorimetry involves something more credible (to me anyway) than point temperature measurements, for example, some sort of heat exchanger to a fluid medium or a Seebeck envelope or ideally both. Clarity and sharp focus in diagrams and data presentation would also be appreciated. Let's hope your confidence is well placed.

AlainCo: My technical expertise is limited but from what I understand they do not feel that their main challenge is raising their COP. Provided they are able to keep running tests, they are confident that they will be able to improve their set-up (which includes both metallurgy and Qwave generation) and raise their COP. Their results over the last few years (and even more over the last few months) support that position. Additional funding would allow them to increase the rate of testing and reach "profitable COP" much faster.

The main challenge is engineering/manufacturing, i.e. their ability to scale up their current Hot Tubes into a commercial device and being able to mass-produce such commercial device.

seven_of_twenty: I reviewed your own comments multiple times during the course of my personal due diligence and thank you for your helpful skepticism. It is pretty hard to judge competence in a field in which you're not an expert and that is why it was important to me to speak with "independent" people such as non-LENR SRI people and lawyers with a technical background. I always had the feeling from years of following LENR developments that Brillouin was the reasonable company (their willingness to advertise low COP is in itself reassuring to me) and this feeling has been confirmed through those contacts.

On calorimetry, Dr Tanzella indeed recognized that the current set-up, which is entirely credible to him and in which he has no doubt, may appear overly complicated to outsiders, hence their willingness to devise a simpler method in order to be more convincing. However, the results of the last few months have generated heat up to a level that seems to them incompatible with any sort of mistake in measurement.

Quote from seven_of_twenty

. It's nothing I can prove but I've always felt that the way

SOT has an unusually high evidence bar

as when he misreads a train of emails to conclude that Godes lied about a 30kW reactor

Brillouin Energy Corporation (BEC) updates.

At the MIT colloquium, Tanzella said that the latest results show a COP of 2.6. He is working on adding mass-flow calorimetry as an additional verification of the COP. He hoped to have those results before the meeting, but something broke and he could not present them yet.

At the end of the talk I asked him what the COP would be without subtracting the losses from the electronics. In other words, what was the heat output relative to the wall plug power? His answer was that the COP would be about half. That would make it just over unity in the earlier experiments, and a COP of around 1.3 now. He did not break down where those inefficiencies are or what could be done to improve them.

Robert Horst: Thanks a lot! I am eager to know more about you thought of Tanzella's presentation.

When you talk about losses from the electronics, do you mean the electrical consumption of the control panel? I understand that the COP should be calculated by comparing what goes in the Hot Tube (in electricity) and what goes out (in heat) but I understand that it would be pretty much useless if all the extra power is used by ancillary electronics. Nevertheless, if the system can be scaled up, surely the percentage represented by the electronics should decrease.

He did not go into detail, but I imagine the biggest losses are in producing and delivering the Q-pulses. The power supply would have to generate AC-DC (maybe 80% efficient), then deliver a high current pulse which would have big I-squared R losses in the cable and PC board. They also have termination resistors to make the pulses as square as possible, and those resistors would dissipate power.

I would rest assured - R.Godes is a very able engineer and I'm sure he'll resolve most problems fairly soon. My only reservation is the critical mass problem - maybe they should try much larger (Kg) reactor cores the scale-up may increase excess energy as a power function of the mass/density increase. (Something I'm experimenting on).

This type of claim is why I don't trust Brillouin to have anything. This now gives me reason to suspect they may not in reality be honest. Fred Z calls it right in his YouTube comment. That these people are getting investor money on the claims in this video is completely unconscionable and people who invest based on such claims are completely gullible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHLQGIu69CU

Edited for profanity, and unsubstantiated accusations. Shane

Quote from seven_of_twenty

This type of claim is why I don't trust Brillouin to have anything. This now gives me reason to suspect they may not in reality be honest. Fred Z calls it right in his YouTube comment. That these people are getting investor money on the claims in this video is completely unconscionable and people who invest based on such claims are completely gullible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHLQGIu69CU

You’re being extremely hard on the basis of a promotional video that is just intended to get investors interested in Brillouin.

Frankly, if you believe accredited investors (even as small as myself) are going to invest significant amounts on the basis of a video such as that one, you are obviously wrong.

I have related above the level of access that was given to me prior to my investment. I can assure you that the investment documentation is extremely clear and states all the risks of such an investment. I really think name calling is not warranted at this stage and not on the basis of a one minute video.

Quote from Alan Smith

LCC We give commenters a fair bit of latitude here, and 7 of 20 is a very well-known skeptic. Don't take it personally.

My apologies to 7of20 and others if I seemed to take it personally.

I’ll say it another way : if I had invested in the basis of that video, you would be right to call me gullible. And if Brillouin only gave information of that level, it would be a scam, as it would only seek gullible people.

But I truly think no one invests on this basis, and I know of experience that they give a lot more information to people who reach them for investing.

@LLC, welcome to this forum and thanks for your input. I think you already made the most important step. Try to establish personal contact and get a second (independent) opinion. However, it seems to be difficult to find people to seriously talk about LENR, because main stream scientists will not want to talk to you. I also went thru a learning curve and the journey is not over yet.

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Try to establish personal contact and get a second (independent) opinion.

Yes. Or more than one and all competent. Unless you are only investing a small amount you don't care about.

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However, it seems to be difficult to find people to seriously talk about LENR, because main stream scientists will not want to talk to you.

Again, if a large amount of investment is involved, many mainline scientists will examine the issue, for a fee. What Brillouin needs to gain respect is a couple of tests of their best reactor, performed by a renown test lab like Sandia, ORNL or as I said earlier, when it comes to calorimetry, Earth Tech seems to do good work or at least they have done some in the past. My personal opinion is that Hell will get pretty chilly before that ever happens. How long has Brillouin been claiming "fait accompli"?

For example, read this total nonsense from 2012 by Godes as interviewed in "Cold Fusion Now" -- a misnomer for sure. https://coldfusionnow.org/tag/brillouin-boiler/

There are some real gems in that interview:

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Godes says, “I think probably alot of your listeners may have heard of Rossi and that there’s copper and natural copper showing up in his thing. I think if they were to do an isotopic analysis of the copper that’s showed up in Rossi’s reaction systems, and is probably also showing up in Defkalion’s, although I don’t think anybody’s actually seen anything from them yet, I think that the preponderance of copper that shows up there would probably be Copper 63 and Copper 65 which are the two naturally occurring isotopes of copper.”

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James asked about the timeline for bringing a product to the market.

George responded, “We have two systems, one is what we call a wet boiler, that’ll operate at 140 degrees Celsius, and the second system, which we’ll be doing with SRI International, will operate in the 400-450C.”

“We’re looking at 12 to 18 months [this was in 2012] to bring it to strategic partners. We don’t plan to become a manufacturer, we’re going to be a licensor. Obviously, the boiler manufacturers already have the ability to do the heat exchangers and so forth, and what we’ll be providing is a system that will be the new boiler, it’ll be the heat source, and they’ll do the heat exchangers, and heat your domestic hot water in your home, your commercial building, and the other system should actually be capable of generating electric power out of some of the retiring coal-fired electric power plants.”

How's that retirement/boiler replacement with Brillouin tech of coal-fired plants going these days? Yeah. I'd be very cautious before giving these folks any money. It's difficult to conceive of anything more speculative.

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Shane D. Edited for profanity, and unsubstantiated accusations. Shane

Sorry. Claims like Brillouin's make me see red when investors are sought. Sorry I got carried away. I will try to avoid it in the future.

Quote from seven_of_twenty

How's that retirement/boiler replacement with Brillouin tech of coal-fired plants going these days?

It'llbe the heat source, and they’ll do the heat exchangers, and heat your domestic hot water in your home, your commercial building, and the other system should actually be capable of generating electric power out of some of the retiring coal-fired electric power plants.”

Actually the boiler as such is ready.

It's what's in the reactor tubes that isn't.

Godes gave no date for replacing coal..... perhap SOT would like to insinuate one?

More gems from the above link:

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Later in the interview, Mr. Godes states that he knows how to control the E-Cat, and its there for Mr. Rossi to look at in his intellectual property filings...

He knows how to control a fraudulent (as thoroughly shown by Rossi vs IH) device which never worked? Wow.

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“Just a couple million dollars could make a huge, huge difference. Think if you had the opportunity to buy Apple at $30 a share. You have the opportunity right not with Brillouin Energy.”

To paraphrase the famous political quote from the Bentsen vs Quayle debate in 1988: Sir, I've bought Apple shares and your company is no Apple!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…_you%27re_no_Jack_Kennedy

robert bryant

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Godes gave no date for replacing coal..... perhap SOT would like to insinuate one?

12-18 months from 2012 for, presumably, manufacturing companies, to be strategic partners. That's what Godes said in the interview.

Help me with this: when did it happen? If you meant when I think it will happen, I already said. When Hell freezes over perhaps.

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It's what's in the reactor tubes that isn't.

Yeah, I know what you mean. It's the same with my flying pigs. It's all about the feed. The pigs are ready. It's what's in the feed that isn't.

SOT indulges in selective quoting... missing out the context.

Brrr!

Later in the interview, Mr. Godes states that he knows how to control the E-Cat, and its there for Mr. Rossi to look at in his intellectual property filings. A lack of system control, and other critical components needed to stabilize the reaction which are missing in the E-Cat, is why he doesn’t believe that Leonardo Technologies or Defkalion Green Technologies have an actual product.

There’s something with process variation you can do called binning, and he sees that as one of the solutions for Mr. Rossi to issues of control and on-demand power.”

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Thanks for the no-profanity pledge. Now we will see if you can stick with it.

If I backslide, I am sure you will be there to help me out

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Later in the interview, Mr. Godes states that he knows how to control the E-Cat, and its there for Mr. Rossi to look at in his intellectual property filings. A lack of system control, and other critical components needed to stabilize the reaction which are missing in the E-Cat, is why he doesn’t believe that Leonardo Technologies or Defkalion Green Technologies have an actual product.

There’s something with process variation you can do called binning, and he sees that as one of the solutions for Mr. Rossi to issues of control and on-demand power.

This so called "context" is as nonsensical as the part I quoted-- Rossi never demonstrated anything that worked, never complained of a lack of control or instability, and basically never told the truth about anything whatever related to ecats. Regardless of what Mr. Godes does for Rossi with controls and stability, the ecat will still be a non-functioning fake and Godes should have realized it in 2012 when there was tons of evidence for this, all over the internet. Nor will data or product "binning" be of the slightest value. The ecat is simply a scam. This was fully, extensively and clearly shown in the run up to the legal case against IH by Rossi.

I leave it to the reader to conjecture why it was Godes was so easily bamboozled by Rossi and how that bears on the credibility of his current claims.

Polite enuf, Shane D.?