Whatever the energy source is, solar, wind, nuclear, gas, coal or diesel the centralisation of the energy source by civilised societies immediately passes on the costs to the consumers of that energy! In an idealised democratic free society it always starts off with good intentions (free energy for all) but then the money men step in and the status quo of rapid energy price rises simply kicks in. Seems to be the Law of Human Nature, simple Darwinism, Survival of the Fittest and Natural Selection. So that is why there are no ideal island states with free energy systems with the power owned by the people rather than the government or councils which have paid to install the new energy systems. They will always seek payback, usually with the promises that its clean, pollution free, etc etc.but the price will always rise.
LENR vs Solar/Wind, and emerging Green Technologies.
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No comment Mr. Daniel...
I don’t ever seeing you make any kind of factual argument so even if you comment or not same same for me. Did you see the part where I said from a societal perspective? If you have a problem with my facts or logic, by all means let me have your argument.
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I don’t ever seeing you make any kind of factual argument
You are a XXX that believes we are all idiots and do not know the hate and blame rhetoric of a classic APCO troll....
You never made any argument. You just did cite rubbish from the press.
Fact is: Actual cost of installed kwH wind production in north see is 6 euro cents/kwh. For solar it heavily depends on location.
As soon as the batteries become cheap enough most US home owners will go of grid. You can make a tiny grid among neighbors. This of course will not work for Germany as the winter production is to low. But uphill in Switzerland it already works quite fine.
So bad time for primary generation owners and oil/gas.
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Well I’m not a troll and I don’t think everyone is an idiot. But I still disagree with those that confuse cost for value. Have a great day!
All those facts and figures in my arguments make me a troll in your mind I guess…
After this number of posts if you don’t understand my argument it’s not the end of the world. I will lay down a prediction here though. The more wind and solar installed the higher retail prices will get. The economics of this require considering multiple variables simultaneously.
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This argument between Daniel_G and Wyttenbach is getting silly because both are right so there's no need to disagree!
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Actually when all cars have batteries we can choose to charge the cars when prices are low which would make solar and wind more practical in the end as it allows more fluctuations. Think house owners charging car batteries when there is no wind. Today we are not there yet, but electric cars are more and more popular and in 10 years the fleet will probably be essentially electrical. Heck, I would probably use the car battery when I heat the house and cook if there is no wind blowing in 5 years time.
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https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/satellite-outage-knocks-out-control-of-enercon-wind-turbines
5,800 wind turbines running on 'auto' as Enercon in Germany loses contact with satellite control systems.
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https://www.nasdaq.com/article…-of-enercon-wind-turbines
5,800 wind turbines running on 'auto' as Enercon in Germany loses contact with satellite control systems.
The solution to this is starlink . But eventually it will probably be taken out by crazy despots that want to control the information in their country and essentially destroy GPS and all satellites and space travel.
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Well I’m not a troll and I don’t think everyone is an idiot. But I still disagree with those that confuse cost for value. Have a great day!
All those facts and figures in my arguments make me a troll in your mind I guess…
After this number of posts if you don’t understand my argument it’s not the end of the world. I will lay down a prediction here though. The more wind and solar installed the higher retail prices will get. The economics of this require considering multiple variables simultaneously.
You may be safe where you live but we have a mad powerful dictator as our neighbor things can get nasty and I suspect that 10000's of windmills will be much more robust from attacks than a few well placed bombs at a few of our power stations. Heck our government will double the electricity generation with windmills and claim that is the best solution. I trust them more than a few quacks in the internet imo.
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This of course will not work for Germany as the winter production is to low. But uphill in Switzerland it already works quite fine.
Geneva gets 1800 sunshine hrs .. no grey winters?
Australia is the skin cancer capital of the world
Here in Sydney we get 2600 hrs
but Perth gets the most.... 3200 .. good for melanoma and Solar panels..
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Solar panels are great if just can learn to use all our energy during the daytime. Me, I like to have my Aircon on in the night. I guess we could go back to candles but lung cancer might become a thing again in addition to the skin cancer. Maybe we should invest in oncology stocks!
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if just can learn to use all our energy during the daytime
The amount of smart money and brains in battery research now probably greatly exceeds the stupid investment in
hot fusion and definitely the meagre investment in LENR..
Is the R&D in the West or East?
CATL continues reign as the world's largest EV battery manufacturer for a fifth straight yearData from a South Korean research firm shows battery manufacturer CATL is once again the largest in the world by installed battery capacity.electrek.coWherever ..I expect batteries to be at half price within five years
by that time I might have new solar panels on an upgraded roof
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Solar panels are great if just can learn to use all our energy during the daytime.
Flow batteries are quite inexpensive and can store electric energy for a very long time. You can also buy a Samsung 5 or 10kwh battery for about 5000$.
But if you have 10 rooms to cool I would recommend to move into a smaller house...
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Globally thousands of terawatt-hours of battery storage would be required for the future you envision. There are plenty of obstacles on this road. To build all this within a decade is absolutely impossible. Flow batteries? Where can I buy one? Are they commercially available?
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Solar panels are great if just can learn to use all our energy during the daytime
Or if you develop a storage technology. Or if you use concentrated solar collectors.
Can concentrated solar power get a do-over?Concentrated solar power got off to a rough start in the U.S. But with millions dedicated to R&D, the Biden administration isn't giving up hope.www.renewableenergyworld.com -
solar thermal sounds great on paper. Ivanpaw couldn't attract enough funding to keep it going and now there is a massive pile of broken mirrors on the Mojave desert, but we need to hedge our bets and concentrated solar may eventually become something.
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Globally thousands of terawatt-hours of battery storage would be required for the future you envision.
No problem:
One cheap future solution:: https://chemrxiv.org/engage/ch…/61004da07bf0c93ed261416f
Pilot under construction:: https://www.rechargenews.com/e…cked-start-up/2-1-1044174
What you can buy already 4x better than Lithium:: https://invinity.com/vanadium-flow-batteries/
For home owners:: https://www.pv-magazine-austra…y-for-renewables-storage/
Or:: https://www.cleanenergyreviews…est-solar-battery-systems
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Ivanpaw couldn't attract enough funding to keep it going and now there is a massive pile of broken mirrors on the Mojave desert,
Ivanpaw is still in operation. It will last a long time. Since it is paid for, it would crazy to shut it down now. (Along the same lines, if the Georgia Plant Vogtle nuke is ever completed, it will make sense to run it as long as possible, even though the construction costs were ruinous and bankrupted the Toshiba unit.) When these things are decommissioned they do not end up as a pile of broken glass, although there are some broken glass in the California SEGS plant, which is still in operation.
Ivanpaw was cost effective when it was designed, but the rapidly falling price of PV solar made it obsolete before it was finished. Perhaps with the lessons learned from it, a more cost effective version can be constructed. There are still concentrated solar plants being built in Africa and Spain, I believe.
Sometimes a technology falls behind and appears to be obsolete, but it is revived and it comes from behind. It might only be a niche market, but still viable. Sometimes it reappears in what looks like a different configuration. For example, you might say that airplane propellers reappeared in the jet age in the form of gigantic bypass fan blades. But in most cases, once a technology becomes obsolete, it fades away, because rivals also improve. In this case, PV continue to fall in price, so concentrated solar has even farther to catch up.
It does have a big advantage that it can run well after sunset, or all night if it is big enough.
It is not completely dead, as you see in a graph and table in Wikipedia:
Concentrated solar power - Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org -
It is not completely dead, as you see in a graph and table in Wikipedia:
May be they just wait for :: https://www.cockpit.aero/rubri…bstoff-nutzen/?no_cache=1
Use concentrated solar power to produce kerosene! ETH/Swiss airline partnership.
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Ivanpaw is still in operation
At 35,000', In the daytime Ivanpah is so bright you can see it from 150 miles away...even when the facility is blocked by the terrain. At night, airborne, you can see it from over the horizon like the glow of a nuclear explosion. That alone would have made it of limited use:
