Roseland67 organic food way more expensive but it doesn't stop people from whole foods.
The DC could be first postioned as a high end thing and slowly trickle into main stream.
The tales about people who think they suffering from EM radiation are not that far fetched ( I personally know one) . They will be happy to know there is less emitting alternative to AC.
Roseland67 organic food way more expensive but it doesn't stop people from whole foods.
The DC could be first postioned as a high end thing and slowly trickle into main stream.
The tales about people who think they suffering from EM radiation are not that far fetched ( I personally know one) . They will be happy to know there is less emitting alternative to AC.
Max,
And if you don’t like it, the next week you go back to Kroger, you’re not out anything.
Unless you plan to have ac AND dc powered devices, with both type of outlets,
Which NO ONE EVER in Any situation will ever want, EVER
This just will not happen.
Only in rainbows & unicorns world will his ever be considered possible
I am wondering why can't new homes have 2 wirings - one for DC one for AC
You car can use DC. Many appliances all LED lights have DC motors cincd they are more efficient.
Max,
Tesla vehicles ALL have an AC motor, BUT
Are driven by dc battery’s,
Kinda makes you want to go Hmmmm,
Like Jed, Don’t believe everything you read until it is confirmed by multiple trusted sources.
Roseland67 I like when people say 'will never happen' they were worng most of the time.
I have an extensive 12VDC ring main for lighting in my house, laid alongside the 230V grid circuit. Since I put it in almost 20 years ago, when it was unusual it can't be that unusual by now.
Unless you plan to have ac AND dc powered devices, with both type of outlets,
Which NO ONE EVER in Any situation will ever want, EVER
This just will not happen.
I have an extensive 12VDC ring main for lighting in my house, laid alongside the 230V grid circuit.
The main reason to use a dc-line is the live time of the cheap rectifier built into the socked of new LED lamps. LED's driven by dc live forever >30000h whereas the other live between 50 and 15000h. The later figure is very optimistic the first is Chinese rubbish.
I too changed many lamps to dc especially all with more expensive LED's. Even cheap Chinese bulbs get long lives...
Roseland67 I like when people say 'will never happen' they were worng most of the time.
as with all of the Rossi cult, give me a date when you think we will have dc current in your home and I will take the over.
It is easy to say “soon” or “in the future”
as Jed is fond of, but reality suggests sometime we’ll after we are dead,
So in that sense, you have a 1 in 1,000,000 chance of being right
Roseland67 were first grids all DC. So it has happened already. So you should say will never happen again.
Roseland67 were first grids all DC. So it has happened already. So you should say will never happen again.
Max,
A few city blocks in New York City is NOT a grid, there was a generator for every 100 houses.
What you and Jed are suggesting will not happen
Roseland67 yes, will never happen again
The main reason to use a dc-line is the live time of the cheap rectifier built into the socked of new LED lamps. LED's driven by dc live forever >30000h whereas the other live between 50 and 15000h. The later figure is very optimistic the first is Chinese rubbish.
I too changed many lamps to dc especially all with more expensive LED's. Even cheap Chinese bulbs get long lives...
wyttenbach
Of course it is, that’s why we all have dc circuits in our homes.
There is no one that has a clue on what portion of their their electric bill is due to lighting.
To do this ALL of your lighting would have to be on “Lighting Only” circuits, which of course virtually no one has AND they would have to be metered accordingly, which they’re not, ever, anywhere.
They compare led lumens to incandescent lumens, then divide appropriate watts & watts and say we’re saving 71% with led.
71% of what? $4.27/month? $1.27/month?
What? No one knows becuse they’re not metered.
Unless it is a lab experiment, or for very specific lighting situations, (theaters, art, stages etc).
Whatever Alan is doing is so incredibly rare
that it constitutes “a needle in a million haystacks”.
Whatever Alan is doing is so incredibly rare
that it constitutes “a needle in a million haystacks”.
No, actually it is fairly common among people who live off the grid with solar electricity. There are thousands in the first world, and millions in the third world. PV produces DC, and it makes no sense to run it through an inverter to power lights or an electric stove or heater. The lights can't tell. There is no point. It wastes electricity. If you have a piece of equipment that needs AC, you use a small inverter for that one machine. This is similar to the way the rest of us use a DC transformer for computers. (My latest desktop came with an external transformer.)
Most people in the first world with PV electricity also have power company mains, so they need a large inverter for their PV. Their house circuits are all AC. Others, however, live in the deep woods or on islands and they have no way to connect to the power company. They might as well go all DC. Which they do.
People in the third world use PV+battery systems for lighting, TV, cell phone charging and things like that. These are all DC.
Of course it is, that’s why we all have dc circuits in our homes.
Only (some exceptions..) motors need AC.
The problem is that state & society power organizations don't like autonomous people. Even the communists, after 1910 did dislike the called anarchists. Huge central power stations are a first mean of control and generate dependency!
Soon electric cars will consume most electricity. They also need DC. Thus it is just a matter of time and place how much dc lines there will be in a future home. Of course short and midrange transmission will always be AC, where as for long range (> 1000 km) only works decently with DC.
Only (some exceptions..) motors need AC.
The problem is that state & society power organizations don't like autonomous people. Even the communists, after 1910 did dislike the called anarchists. Huge central power stations are a first mean of control and generate dependency!
Soon electric cars will consume most electricity. They also need DC. Thus it is just a matter of time and place how much dc lines there will be in a future home. Of course short and midrange transmission will always be AC, where as for long range (> 1000 km) only works decently with DC.
Electric cars will NOT consume MOST electricity, and the motive driver is an AC motor NOT dc, their is an inverter because AC motors are better suited for the application.
People that live off the grid and use solar power are NOT in 3rd world countries, they use solar power because they must,
People in urban areas do not.
Most People in 3rd world countries can not afford solar power, they burn wood for energy.
As as lifetime engineer in the energy field, it is my personal opinion that no one on this blog or any of their offspring will be alive to see urban areas generating, transmitting, distributing and consuming dc power.
So,
As I indicated to Jed, let’s re-visit this in 2025 and beyond and see.
Electric cars need DC to charge their batteries. Same difference. They use AC motors because they are cheaper then DC motors and easier to couple into control systems.
Electric cars need DC to charge their batteries. Same difference. They use AC motors because they are cheaper then DC motors and easier to couple into control systems.
Alan,
No they dont, they can charge with AC, the overwhelming majority do because AC is available everywhere, they just run it thru an inverter.
It is more efficient and faster to charge with DC, but only if it is available.
Solar storage is extremely expensive and is simply not cost effective .
A good primer for all:
Display MoreAlan,
No they dont, they can charge with AC, the overwhelming majority do because AC is available everywhere, they just fonitbthru an inverter.
It is more efficient and faster to charge with DC, but only if it is available.
Solar storage is extremely expensive and is simply not cost effective .
A good primer for all:
One more for your consideration:
https://www.tandfonline.com/do…080/15325008.2017.1318977
Now I fully expect these 2 papers to be
“Cherry picked” for paragraphs and sentences that support your argument.
However, if as engineers, you all consume the entire articles you will see that while there are some inherent advantages of
dc over ac, there are also many drawbacks.
The adoption of dc in the industrial, commercial and residential marketplaces will not happen in your or your children’s lifetimes.
As an engineer,I am not advocating halting the investigation, I cannot see what the future holds for new developments.
I am however, Certain the market inertia for AC will rule the day for the next 100 years.
No they dont, they can charge with AC, the overwhelming majority do because AC is available everywhere, they just run it thru an inverter.
Sure, you plug them into an AC grid connection, but the car carries its own AC/DC converter. However, you have totally got hold of the wrong end of the stick throughout this discussion. Nobody I know of expects the entire consumer grid to be converted to DC. The whole point and purpose of reintroducing DC is to use it at very very high voltages to improve the efficiency of long-distance transmission lines. Simple as that, you appear to have misunderstood the concept, and our subsequent comments may well have confused you further.
quick search yielded http://uniqueoffgrid.com/produ…wered-dc-upright-freezer/
available at Home Depot
quick search yielded http://uniqueoffgrid.com/produ…wered-dc-upright-freezer/
available at Home Depot
59 W. That's remarkable.
The fact that this product is available at Home Depot tells us there is a significant market for off-grid DC powered appliances. If there were only a few thousand they could not stay in business selling these things.
Gas-fired refrigerators also serve this market, as I mentioned.
