Where is the LENR goal line, and how best do we get there?

Quote from JedRothwell

But as Uncle Martin said, heat is the principle signature of the reaction. Not particles. It sure would be nice if they were, because they are so easy to detect in small amounts, but they ain't.

***The heat signature is too easily dismissed by skeptopaths. Gammas are something that shouldn't be there at ALL. Not so easily dismissible, so that's where the focus should be, where the 'goal post is'.

....

I presume that after we figure out how cold fusion works, people will say that most nuclear fusion does not produce particles. No particles will be considered normal; plasma fusion the exception.

By coincidence people discovered high energy plasma fusion first, which does make particles, so they got the idea that fusion must always do this. If they had discovered cold fusion first, and plasma fusion later, they would have accidentally killed some grad students. Then they would spin their wheels trying and failing to explain where all those particles are coming from. The APS would be screeching that the experiments violate theory, and they are fraudulent and the researchers are lunatics because everyone knows fusion does not produce gamma rays!!! It is a law of nature!!

***I agree, but "you can't prove a negative". We're stuck with plasma fusion branching dogma until we can show it doesn't apply in condensed matter.

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My experience when it comes to this field is that there are many people who think like McKubre. They start off dreaming of the benefits cold fusion or LENR could bring to the world and start working towards seeing it proven as a reality. When they start seeing extremely positive results -- not just a few watts -- they change their minds. Instantly, they put themselves first and decide that if they can't beat everyone else the world can go without such an energy source.

Personally, I absolutely despise the world we live in today. What I value about LENR is it's potential to change our civilization in huge ways. That's why I want to see the technology be acknowledged as real and proliferate.

Mmckubre,

I can't agree with you more.

At this stage in the evolution of LENR, there's not a single product on the market and the vast majority of mainstream scientists don't even accept that the phenomenon is real. To keep know how that could produce high powered systems capable of breaking down the barriers to the acceptance of this technology a secret is absolutely repugnant. For example, consider Andrea Rossi. Piantelli and Focardi did great work on Ni-H before Rossi ever started doing cold fusion research. However, their systems did not produce the kind of breakthrough output that is needed to break through the barriers the cynics, skeptics, and naysayers have put in place. Andrea Rossi came along and made some enhancements resulting in the ability to produce very high outputs. Now, it's pushing a decade since Andrea Rossi achieved these results, but LENR is still considered pseudo-science by the mainstream. Due to his willingness to put his own personal gain before the needs of the whole planet, we still don't have an absolute proven to work recipe to produce high powered LENR. Ten years from now we may still not have such information from Rossi, because if he can't monopolize the market he's not going to share any information that could in anyway assist potential competitors.

What's so frustrating to me is that I think we have the information RIGHT NOW to produce these systems. It's not all in one place, but if you look at the wide variety of systems that have been tested many common themes seem to form. The problem is that whenever someone who is in a position to perform serious testing -- with an open mind and not confined to one specific view point about LENR -- starts getting results, they go secretive as well. The way I see it, the only way LENR will ever emerge is if groups form that somehow enforce openness, perhaps with legally binding contracts, from the beginning. For example, if ten people are working together on a project (even if they want to be open at first), start getting really good results, and start to see the potential for profit if they don't reveal their know how, the vast majority of the time they'll go dark. However, if they signed a contract with each other from the beginning that enforced open sharing with the larger community regardless of earnings potential, they would have a legally binding CONSCIOUS in effect even if they LOSE THEIRS.

I think something like this needs to happen ASAP. Otherwise, we'll see team after team start getting results only to go silent in the hope of riches only to achieve nothing in the end. I personally don't want to wait another five years and go through a few more Andrea Rossi's, Patterson's, me356's, and a few other names I won't mention here to see LENR be accepted as reality.

Quote from Gruber

http://iscmns.org/conferences/workshop13/

And from Dewey's posts since it is over Shane speculated that he ain't happy.

Thanks Gruber.

Shane, what was presented that you think Mr. Weaver did not like?

Quote from mmckubre

Speculated incorrectly I believe. Although I don’t (need to) speak for Dewey I was with him there and we both found the meeting in Greccio very productive. The problem that we face (pre-commercialization) is threefold – all facets were discussed and advanced in our little monastery in the hills of Umbria:

1. What is the nuclear active environment and how do we make it on demand? I believe this matter is now resolved. Many have found ways to achieve the NAE (many adventitiously) … see http://coldfusioncommunity.net/sav/sav-as-nae/

2. What is/are the triggers? Some were discussed publicly there (microwaves) – others privately.

3. What is the mechanism/theory of CMNS? This is still lagging and will until we have a more reliable/repeatable demonstration object but Hagelstein is making good progress, is still very much engaged, and still happy.

Progress is good. Results will follow. IH has put in a good effort to prop the community up. Others are also involved who can/will speak for themselves.

LENR takes place due to prime movers and clusters of prime movers that are organized in different constructs.

Prime movers are created when electrons and protons are exposed to a powerful electric field -- augmented by an external magnetic field and other factors.

One NAE for the prime mover can be in SAV inside of the nickel lattice.

Another NAE for the prime mover can be on the surface of the nickel lattice.

Yet another NAE for the prime mover can be a pure plasma.

The qualities of the prime mover may vary depending upon which NAE was utilized.

Some prime movers may be individual and others exist in clusters.

Some prime movers may have the momentum to exist the reactor body while others may have ultra low momentum.

Some prime movers may have formed large clusters and be capable of traveling out of a reactor.

In designing a reactor, one must decide which NAE is going to be utilized. Each NAE will then require an optimized stimulus.

In the example of a nickel-hydrogen wire or powder based system, I think every method possible should be undertaken to enhance the loading of hydrogen into the nickel. In the process of doing so, I think we could end up providing a stimulus at the same time. I would begin by taking the nickel and subjecting it to cycles of loading and deloading. Then I would attempt to use one or more methods of modifying the surface to produce spillover effects (perhaps by adding palladium nano-particles) and to produce the most intense surface plasmon polaritions (waves of electrons) on the surface. Perhaps we could utilize a method of producing properly shaped spires or "tubercles" on the surface of the nickel to generate intense surges of surface plasmon polaritons. Next, I feel strongly that we should incorporate the usage of a plasma environment. Not only would plasma continue modifying the surface (depending on the intensity of the plasma and the heavy ions we include) but provide more atomic hydrogen for absorption and provide charged particles that could impact the surface generating intense SPPs.

By using plasma we could be aiding the formation of NAE's (SAV in the nickel and surface modifications) and adding stimulation. Moreover, there's a chance that with the proper additives to the plasma we could produce some quantity of Prime Movers directly in the ionized environment.

My guess is that Rossi and a few others have mastered the production of Prime Movers. However, I think they also discovered that they can become problematic if they are produced in too high of quantities or have such high momentum that they exit the reactor.

I really wish there was a lab somewhere that would incorporate many optimizations to try and maximize the production of prime movers.

There are no leaders of LENR.

There are only a number of money hungry dictators with inventors syndrome.

There are also a few really intelligent people who are not inventors but are willing to keep important information confidential when there is no need to do so.

What needs to happen is for a group of people with a WRITTEN ON PAPER CONTRACT FOR TOTAL OPENNESS start utilizing all the techniques to optimize NAE creation and stimulation to produce high powered systems. This will make all of the so-called leaders panic: because their chance of a monopoly on LENR will be over. Rossi is a great example. He is unwilling to conduct any demonstration that meets a level that would be considered absolutely irrefutable. If he did, enough smart minds might get interested that they'd figure out what he is doing and become a competitor. Just like Patterson, he wants total control over the LENR field and if he cannot get that then he doesn't care one bit if his technology never sees the light of day. He's not the only party in the LENR field that feels this way.