The Scientific Discussion of New Ideas

  • The fact is there are a lot of people who would love to be Mad Scientists in their garage -- or some basement -- working on LENR and related technologies. But the truth is quite a lot of people don't have that opportunity for one reason or another. This thread is for both these individuals and actual replicators to post their serious but possibly nutty, wild, and "lunatic" ideas of how to produce high powered LENR reactions. Posts about all types of LENR systems are allowed here: electrolytic, gas phase, and plasma. As long as the poster is serious and not "playing games" on this thread no speculation is too controversial. Remember, your posts can be short paragraphs or entire essays.


    However, there are a few rules for this thread.


    1) Consider any idea you post here totally open sourced.


    2) If you a skeptic that doesn't want to participate in a constructive way, please don't post in this thread.


    3) No name calling, insults, or crass language.


    Finally, if you use any information on this thread and get good results, please post your data!

  • I think someone should try exposing their nickel or other metal wire/powder to a series of exposures to corona discharge in a commercial unit. Initially, I think that a higher percentage of argon should be used to help blast off any nickel oxide scale and then a higher percentage of hydrogen should be used to maximize loading. The polarity could also be played around with to also expose the metal to electrons which might alter the surface morphology. If desired, the same fuel sample could be oxidized and reduced with hydrogen multiple times to create a highly roughened surface.

  • By the way---so that it doesn't just remain a "what if" proposal---the improvised battery-like electrolytic cell in the diagram I posted earlier ended up being something like in the photo below. Contrarily to expectations it didn't work as expected compared to the initial "wafer" implementation.


    Posting this here instead of the Reducing the cost of Johnny 5 / MacGyver experiments thread as it's probably a better place for discussing this further.


    Following some basement-lab tests (can't really define them as "experiments") yesterday I thought that perhaps a standard electrolytic cell for LENR experiments could be reduced and simplified to something like in the diagram below. So I tried again with improvised materials. After operation, the cathode "plate" does appear to get quite clean, deep lustrous black, while the anode "plate" forms an oxide layer which mostly flakes off, but the actual conditions might depend on the materials used (some sort of magnetic steel in this case; I just tested the concept).


    Perhaps this "wafer" arrangement could be improved somehow and made more useful?

  • In my theory the cold fusion occurs during low-dimensional collisions of multiple atoms along single line (Astroblaster effect). There are possible ways how to increase yield of such an collisions:

    • utilization of materials rich of nanocracks and dislocations, in particular nickel whiskers saturated by hydrogen (Piantelli, Storms) or zeolite cavities
    • utilization of directional laser beams (Holmlid, Arata&Zhang)
    • utilization of shock waves (LeClair, sonofusion of Taleyarkhan)
    • directional impact of ion beams to thin layers of molten lithium (Unified Gravity approach, maybe also applies to Me386 and QuarkX experiments)
    • magnetic field makes motion of charged particles more directional (Cravens)
    • high speed collisions of heavy nanodust particles or plasmoids in microwave field
  • 8|=O


    The black plate is emitting crackling noises! I'm pretty sure this is the to hydrogen embrittlement. I wonder if I can somehow record this, I think it will be very difficult though.


    Unfortunately I couldn't manage to record it with my microphone. It's very faint and high pitched and can only be heard clearly by putting the metal plate close to one's ear. For what's worth, the other (oxidized) plate doesn't emit any noise.


    Photo showing dark side down.


    Relevant paragraph from https://m.tau.ac.il/~chemlaba/…rodeposition/13208_02.pdf




    EDIT: I attached a recording I did about 2 hours ago. I think the microphone was getting slight amounts of cracking noise associated with what from the file sound like thumps in quick succession. Unfortunately this isn't very convincing. However, given that at the moment the cracking seems to have subsided substantially compared to when I first reported it, and that at that time about a hour and a half passed since the test, perhaps the effect could be more clearly heard immediately after replicating it.


    (rename the .wav.txt file into .wav)

    embrittlement.wav.txt

  • If people are actually interested in this sort of stuff and observations (doesn't look like it's the case) ...



    - Today I tried using copper-steel eurocents, which confirmed that I wasn't doing anything wrong, in that the (supposed) anode did get oxidized acquiring a blue-green (verdigris) color, while the cathode initially became dark brown, then almost black. After removing the coins from the contraption, the easily removed dark layer (which appeared to be some sort of thin film deposition) revealed underneath a shiny copper layer.


    - I attempted to replicate the previous experiment with the (zinc-plated?) steel plates and at first I couldn't obtain the same glittery layer I obtained yesterday. One main difference was that this time I mostly used 5V and didn't use 12V whenever possible.


    - When afterwards I used 12V and allowed the water-electrolyte solution between the plates to almost completely dry before adding more water as I did yesterday, a similar layer to the one obtained yesterday could be formed.


    - It appears that the areas where current transfer was best/the most efficient are the ones which show such glittery dark layer.


    - After the experiment ended I tried listening carefully if the piece emitted any noise. It did, but it was only audible by ear. It's perceived as some sort of clicking or static noise that occurs sporadically. Initial attempts to record it again with a dynamic microphone alone have not been successful.


    - I tried putting an aluminium foil plate between the microphone (with the upper dome removed) and the embrittlened piece, and whether through some sort of acoustic amplification effect or some other effect, this time I managed to record something. In this configuration the noise comes as some sort of clicking reminiscent of Geiger counter clicks.


    (see attached photo and zipped mp3 file)


    - For what's worth, to at least make sure that I was not imagining anything anyway, I tried asking for confirmation by a trusted person of whether he could hear anything from the piece in a quiet place, and he confirmed that he did. So the steel piece does really appear to emit clicking sounds, probably due to hydrogen embrittlement.


    I'm wondering if there is associated radiation emission of any sort with this effect. Perhaps other people with suitable equipment could verify with their own materials.

  • A question for the "old guard": are there reports of palladium cold fusion cathodes emitting crackling noises (or similar noises) after getting loaded with deuterium (or hydrogen) to concentrations regarded as conducive for excess heat anomalies?

  • Here is an interesting paper that details a theory about LENR.


    The rotator collapse field coupled mechanism of LENR


    https://www.researchgate.net/p…context=ProjectUpdatesLog


    The most interesting aspect of the paper in my opinion is the following reference.



    EVIDENCE OF CATALYTIC PRODUCTION OF HOT ATOMIC HYDROGEN IN RF GENERATED
    HYDROGEN/HELIUM PLASMAS


    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.o…310cb9c4b47d26912915b.pdf


    What I think is most important to note is that when hydrogen mixed with certain noble gases is excited into a plasma via RF, "hot atomic hydrogen" particles are created with energies beyond what would normally be expected. The author seems to imply that these are hydrinos, but I don't think that is neccesarily the case. What's important here is that there's something fundamentally unique that takes place when you produce atomic hydrogen with RF and noble gases. We know Rossi used RF generators in his first one megawatt plant to help produce a plasma. I think that these unique hydrogen atoms are likely EVOs or Piantelli's H ions. When they are exposed to hydrogenated nickel, I think that additional nuclear reactions take place. If you have lithium in the plasma I think that even more reactions take place.


    A good reactor design might be a conical RF resonator with a center antenna with spikey nickel powder covering the inner surface, a gaseous mix of hydrogen and various noble gases (He or Ar), and a source of lithium.


  • Director,


    Maybe so. Just a suggestion, but Wyttenbach has a very rare provisional LENR USPTO patent in the system now. His discussing it under a thread with the words mixed nuts, mad scientist, wild ideas, and tin foil hats, in the title may not be a good idea for him...or for LENR.


    I think your thread is a good idea, and has already attracted the likes of Can, so it has it's place already. Just a suggestion, but maybe if you dignified the title better, theory discussion such as Wyttenbach's may be better received, and perceived?

  • i'll add some intrigue,

    A low temperature boiling metal reaction

    A thermite type formula Fe203 and aluminum powder used to melt obsidian volcanic glass to a gas molten state.

    Mix this gas state using the expansion reaction through a collision design to help keep it a mixed hot gas for the next reaction, heating a metal like gallium to a low temperature boil starting another reaction with solid aluminum making a new metal mix of gasses over a low temperature boiling metal.

    Add fibrins proteins.

    Continuing a new stage of mixing to an exiting point the gasses and obsidian glass condenses with the trapped mix inside.


    Brake the glass sphere to release.

    or let collisions / atmospheric drive them.

    We don't need them pesky gas fumes up there anyway if it ignites them~

  • It seems to me that discussion of Wyttenbach's theory and patent application(s) wouldn't really match the stated intents of this thread, or it could be that I have misunderstood its purpose entirely.


    May be after Italy I will open a thread to present some aspects of the new theory.


    The main actual and concrete physics model can be found under NPP2.0 https://www.researchgate.net/p…r-and-particle-physics-20


    You should start with reading version 2.1 and the updates. Version 2.0 is just left there for historical reasons and it contains some more initial thoughts.


    The newest add-on/prerelease is a new SO(4) based "magnetic" hydrogen model that is able to calculate all known (10) digits of the ionization energy. But do not believe that I completely understand why it's that exact...


    The patent is based on the very first, classical model write-up. Now others can complain about the content - internal checks by USPTO have been passed. The LENR write-up "director" linked contains some additional explanations and the finding/description that 7Li +H* is the effective reaction.

  • If someone wants to discuss in depth a particular theory, it would probably be a better idea to open a new thread. However, for casual discussion -- not dozens or hundreds of back and forth posts -- this thread is appropriate. I really don't want this thread to be too focused over any single theory or idea. I would like for it to be more like a drop box where people can post their ideas and thoughts.

  • How large can rotators theoretically grow? I'm curious if ball lightning is not an example of a macro-scale rotator.


    One model for ball-lightening is the "anapole" field structure. Such a "rotator can grow very large. But for LENR only the collapsing field strength on the nuclear level counts and a large rotator certainly will not collapse symmetrically due to heating effects. ... LENR is based on magnetism = rotation and the transfer of magnetic (rotating flux) energy.

  • It's okay. I don't mind. However, I think the kind of people we need on this thread are the ones that don't give a hoot if other people think they are nutty or mad. What we don't want are snoody intellectuals who would put their reputations and careers before scientific progress.

  • Wyttenbach,


    I'm going to review your paper and patent application again so that I can try to gain a better conceptual understanding of what you are attempting to explain. Please forgive me for my ignorance during this period. I really think that it would be helpful for non-professionally trained individuals if you'd attempt to produce an essay explaining the basic concepts using perhaps different language. What I've learned is that producing a mental model of the fields (magnetic and vector potential) and forces of a specific configuration and how everything is moving isn't easy. It took me a little while to "get" the concept of the spheromak and produce a mental model. If you have the time, please consider writing a "for dummies" version of your paper/patent.

  • Wyttenbach

    I attempted to give a quick look at it but I'm afraid that the model is too high-level for me to fully appreciate. I think most people here will be interested in the practical aspects for LENR experiments, similarly to how most people following Randell Mills directly go for the hydrino rather than the underlying GUT-CP theory. So, a thread focused on such aspects would be very welcome.


    I believe one of such practical suggestions also highlighted in the recent patent application is that an external magnetic field perpendicular to those rotators (which appear to be similar in concept to Rydberg matter) would be helful stabilizing them, correct? Incidentally I had used one or two Nd magnets in my latest tests, but due to equipment limitations I'm not sure whether their contribution truly had a positive effect.


    I did notice for example that low-voltage arc discharges would be brighter in some cases with one, but I don't really know if that was coincidental or due to other known effects. The magnetic field needed to be on specific orientations, for what it's worth.



    I planned adding more observations following more electrolytic and semi-electrolytic tests, but I'm not sure anymore if this is the proper thread for them. The tests are naïvely performed and not really instrumented; I didn't think they would be really worth their own thread.

  • I believe one of such practical suggestions also highlighted in the recent patent application is that an external magnetic field perpendicular to those rotators (which appear to be similar in concept to Rydberg matter) would be helful stabilizing them, correct? Incidentally I had used one or two Nd magnets in my latest tests, but due to equipment limitations I'm not sure whether their contribution truly had a positive effect.


    Your thoughts are correct. I believe that within 1-2 months we will have a more deep understanding of LENR based on the given model. Talking about a model can be interesting, but knowing (how) it works will be much more interesting. I can only say, we see everything I said what could be seen.

  • Wyttenbach

    I attempted to give a quick look at it but I'm afraid that the model is too high-level for me to fully appreciate. I think most people here will be interested in the practical aspects for LENR experiments

    Maybe irrelevant maybe not. Why don't you try if you can a pickle jar dc magnetron sputtering machine like this

    . no hard vacuum required if any. just hydrated nickel substrate in argon atmosphere on a lithium/nickel target and mesure for radiation.

  • Maybe irrelevant maybe not. Why don't you try if you can a pickle jar dc magnetron sputtering machine like this

    . no hard vacuum required if any. just hydrated nickel substrate in argon atmosphere on a lithium/nickel target and mesure for radiation.


    Is ther any relation with "cathodic sputtering" ?

    Didier Gras observed an extreme reaction that looks like a LENR burst with ZrO2 powder cathodic sputtered with Ni (0.1µm), then electrolysed as cathode (with Ni anode) with nickel sulfamate


    Another key idea seems that he used a setup similar to "hollow cathode" , said to enforce higher than normal compression of deposited Ni...(I don't understand well what it means)


    See (in French) RNBE2016: Couche mince de nickel realisé par pulvérisation cathodique par Didier Grass