The Scientific Discussion of New Ideas

  • Am I missing something here? In this SAFIRE project they are attempting to replicate conditions on the SUN, firing up high energy plasmas. Brilliant plasma research. How do they reckon on LENR when they are studying hydrogen fusion at several million degrees K? Surely this is simple High Energy Nuclear Reaction phenomena AKA hot fusion, and so they have no need of Li, nano-wells (cracks), magnetic acceleration or sparks etc. But like all other hot fusion projects the energy in is still much greater than energy out. Bacteria/viruses have been able to harness just about every other biochemical/physical reaction in nature (including interstellar travel on asteroids) so why not LENR?

    ,

  • Am I missing something here? In this SAFIRE project they are attempting to replicate conditions on the SUN, firing up high energy plasmas. Brilliant plasma research. How do they reckon on LENR when they are studying hydrogen fusion at several million degrees K? Surely this is simple High Energy Nuclear Reaction phenomena AKA hot fusion, and so they have no need of Li, nano-wells (cracks), magnetic acceleration or sparks etc. But like all other hot fusion projects the energy in is still much greater than energy out. Bacteria/viruses have been able to harness just about every other biochemical/physical reaction in nature (including interstellar travel on asteroids) so why not LENR?

    ,


    Am I missing something here?


    Yes you are, The temperature of SAFIRE double layer plasma is about 7.5 ev or 80,000C. The input drive voltage is just a few 100 volts. The power consumed is just a few hundred watts. SAFIRE is seeing both transmutation and proton proton fusion. The only thing that SAFIRE uses to produce LENR is hydrogen and a flow of a very small amount of electrical current.


    The telling factor that counters your hot fusion assumption is that there is no neutrons or gamma radiation detected. If fact, no radiation of any kind except heat and a small amount of light is detected.

  • I don't know where you are getting your figures from, p57 of the Safire disclosure quotes an upper figure of 3 million degrees for the plasma ring displayed - I don't know why they find the vaporized tungsten so surprising at these sort of temperatures. I find the written article and the video very sensationalist as if it's sole purpose is to attract unwitting investors. I picked up several errors in terms of basic physics and further they say clearly they 'don't know at the present time' whether gamma or X-rays are released by these plasmas'. So they havn't [ooked for neutrons either. I suppose. Maybe they are trying to enter the LENR field because its become trendy or maybe their funding is drying up/its a tough world/like their mainstream nuclear hardcore physicists are demanding concrete results/hardcore refereed research papers to continue funding?

    Regardless of all this are you suggesting we all create mini-Safires to investigate LENR as this is the only approach likely to work? ie abandon the electrolytic and reactor approaches?

  • I don't know where you are getting your figures from, p57 of the Safire disclosure quotes an upper figure of 3 million degrees for the plasma ring displayed - I don't know why they find the vaporized tungsten so surprising at these sort of temperatures. I find the written article and the video very sensationalist as if it's sole purpose is to attract unwitting investors. I picked up several errors in terms of basic physics and further they say clearly they 'don't know at the present time' whether gamma or X-rays are released by these plasmas'. So they havn't [ooked for neutrons either. I suppose. Maybe they are trying to enter the LENR field because its become trendy or maybe their funding is drying up/its a tough world/like their mainstream nuclear hardcore physicists are demanding concrete results/hardcore refereed research papers to continue funding?

    Regardless of all this are you suggesting we all create mini-Safires to investigate LENR as this is the only approach likely to work? ie abandon the electrolytic and reactor approaches?


    81,000 degrees comes from this section of the video


  • OK lets compromise and I must apologise for that remark about being sensationalist-everybody has to present their work like this these days to obtain funding I suppose. Perhaps there is some high temperature fusion going on in the plasma around the anode, but I agree it must be good old LENR in the cathode! Maybe the effect can be enhanced by applying Wyttenbach's proposition to the cathode?

  • Whoops-I assumed the transmutation data came from the cathode, but in fact came from an anode spot and the tungsten probe (which I suppose was at ground or at the cathode potential). They have not analysed the large surrounding cathode area-but possibly is similar to the probe data.

  • DR,


    Safire has been disappointing. After making that eye catching presentation, they started playing coy. They were at ICCF21, but according to BG, they were cordial, but did not engage in any meaningful exchange of ideas. Shortly after that, they attended another LENR related conference (forget where). Hope was they would open up and we would get some feedback, but nothing.


    Like everything in the field, their actions could mean a number of different things, from investors getting involved, to they have nothing.

  • DR,


    Safire has been disappointing. After making that eye catching presentation, they started playing coy. They were at ICCF21, but according to BG, they were cordial, but did not engage in any meaningful exchange of ideas. Shortly after that, they attended another LENR related conference (forget where). Hope was they would open up and we would get some feedback, but nothing.


    Like everything in the field, their actions could mean a number of different things, from investors getting involved, to they have nothing.

    The SAFIRE scientists could just be behaving the way scientists behave. Scientists don't release results until the results are certain and totally explainable. When scientists are dealing with LENR, they treat it like handling a cobra.

  • They're probably just being careful - their setup has some similarities to the old Farnsworth-Hirsch fusors, and the later polywell systems which nearly cracked the whole fusion issue before nuclear physicists started using magnetic confinement of plasmas resulting in the wasted massive spending on tokamaks and ITER. Could be the Safire crew have made quite a ground-breaking discovery in not attepting to contain the plasma (as they say working with rather than against nature). Do they have a self-confining plasma the details of which are about to be published in Nature? They havn't published much of the details, just that the alternating plasma rings alternate in positive and negative polarities {like layers of an onion} and propose some unknown 'force-field'. I think this is all quite remarkable and needs modelling mathematically to work out what's happening. Are these alternating rings of electrons and protons maybe held together by Unruh (or Hawking) radiation according to the new Quantised Inertia hypothesis of Mike McCulloch? (this radiation has been proposed to hold the galaxies together removing the necessity for dark matter-which nobody has found any evidence for anyway). A possible unification of hot plasma fusion and LENR could make all the other hot fusion projects redundant- why not start replicating this Safire system, its design is quite simple, with the aim of energy production?

  • They're probably just being careful - their setup has some similarities to the old Farnsworth-Hirsch fusors, and the later polywell systems which nearly cracked the whole fusion issue before nuclear physicists started using magnetic confinement of plasmas resulting in the wasted massive spending on tokamaks and ITER. Could be the Safire crew have made quite a ground-breaking discovery in not attepting to contain the plasma (as they say working with rather than against nature). Do they have a self-confining plasma the details of which are about to be published in Nature? They havn't published much of the details, just that the alternating plasma rings alternate in positive and negative polarities {like layers of an onion} and propose some unknown 'force-field'. I think this is all quite remarkable and needs modelling mathematically to work out what's happening. Are these alternating rings of electrons and protons maybe held together by Unruh (or Hawking) radiation according to the new Quantised Inertia hypothesis of Mike McCulloch? (this radiation has been proposed to hold the galaxies together removing the necessity for dark matter-which nobody has found any evidence for anyway). A possible unification of hot plasma fusion and LENR could make all the other hot fusion projects redundant- why not start replicating this Safire system, its design is quite simple, with the aim of energy production?


    The SAFIRE experiment is a spherical glow discharge tube



    Russ and Alan built one of these glow tubes and placed a foil inside it. They got effects similar to the effects that showed up in SAFIRE when the tungsten probe was inserted into the SAFIRE plasma band.


    4766-the-test-png

  • Yes, as you say, a sherical glow discharge tube and as you show Russ and Alan have already replicated the effect using deuterium. Excellent work guys! Any transmutation of elements detected on the foil/ electrodes or neutron component in the 'strange radiation'?

  • Yes, as you say, a sherical glow discharge tube and as you show Russ and Alan have already replicated the effect using deuterium.


    We do no glowing.. we just look at the sky...


    We also do no replicating work. We just try to understand LENR without any heat input.


    We also won't discuss with skeptics, this is priests stuff.


    If we see 20 watts excess from 1 gram of fuel we open a bottle of wine and enjoy the impact of 1 gram alcohol...

  • The only reason I mentioned fusors was because the sequence of plasma development as the voltage is ramped up in the SAFIRE project looks just like the 'Wiffle Ball' sequence of plasma changes described by Rob W Bussard in one of his inertial electrostatic confinement systems. The vast literature on plasma research can't have missed something so obvious as self-confining plasma shells anyway (or could it????}. So no replication work is necessary, just sit back, enjoy your wine.

  • Nice evidence for dark matter by Leif Holmlid, enough H(0) in the galaxy to have supported Bussard's ramjet idea for interstellar travel if we ever get round to building a decent hyper-efficient fusion drive. Must read some more Ian M Banks Sci Fi Culture series as a vision of how good (or bad) its going to get!

  • The only reason I mentioned fusors was because the sequence of plasma development as the voltage is ramped up in the SAFIRE project looks just like the 'Wiffle Ball' sequence of plasma changes described by Rob W Bussard in one of his inertial electrostatic confinement systems. The vast literature on plasma research can't have missed something so obvious as self-confining plasma shells anyway (or could it????}. So no replication work is necessary, just sit back, enjoy your wine.


    The original motivation for the SAFIRE experiment is to explore the "astrophysical electrical double layer." The detailed dynamics of plasma behavior in space is not yet known.


    https://www.ceb.cam.ac.uk/rese…e-electrical-double-layer


    double-layers-1.jpg


    It is turning out that the electrical-double-layer is a natural system that generates the LENR reaction. Because of its simplicity, this natural occurring structure will expose the mast basic underling factors that produce the LENR reaction. I speculate that these factors include chiral spin/charge separation and possible vortex formation at plasma spin/charge boundaries.

  • In planet crust Earth such processes happen constantly, still Faraday declared it!

    Нефть - это кровь планеты, надо сделать модель планеты и мы получим генератор Тарасенко, эта энергия покорит вселенную! :lenr:

  • This strange observation points to how LENR is produced naturally inside the earth


    See post


    What is the maximum energy that LENR can accumulate.


    Not!

    Planet Earth itself produces energy by rotating the geospheres from the core to the surface (plate tectonics). The friction of the geospheres (layers) and gives electricity in the earth's crust. Capacity of the earth electric condenser 1 FARADA!

    Russians are mistaken, I know their works (Savatimov, Urutskoyev, Vysotsky)

    Нефть - это кровь планеты, надо сделать модель планеты и мы получим генератор Тарасенко, эта энергия покорит вселенную! :lenr:

  • Not!

    Planet Earth itself produces energy by rotating the geospheres from the core to the surface (plate tectonics). The friction of the geospheres (layers) and gives electricity in the earth's crust. Capacity of the earth electric condenser 1 FARADA!

    Russians are mistaken, I know their works (Savatimov, Urutskoyev, Vysotsky)

    https://gizmodo.com/newly-dete…er-core-is-sol-1829871279


    Newly Detected Vibrations Show Earth's Inner Core Is Solid


    Researchers report that they’ve observed seismic waves traversing the Earth’s inner core, allowing them to figure out what it’s like: solid, but softer than previously thought.


    We’ve long inferred based on observations that the Earth has layers: a crust; a thick, hot mantle; a liquid outer core; and a solid inner core.

  • https://gizmodo.com/we-were-to…495644?platform=hootsuite

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/r…klrSciForbes#50d96a5333dd



    Thanks! I well know the academic theories, but they have one small mistake, they take plasma of cold nuclear synthesis for solid iron! Plasma possesses the same density as well as iron! There are publications where other spheres in a kernel find every time, as speaks about continuous change of density of a kernel! Rotation of a kernel from the moment of formation of the planet (Big Bang) assumes existence of a gas-and-dust fog which rotates and now in a kernel! Without rotation of a kernel our continents would stand still, but the theory of tectonics of plates proves their movement on GPS!


    Нефть - это кровь планеты, надо сделать модель планеты и мы получим генератор Тарасенко, эта энергия покорит вселенную! :lenr:

  • Just in case things get out of hand you;ll know how,

    Seems salt water is not the same as Sea water as an ingredient.

    This is the tabletop do it yourself,

    About 2 weeks to build from a projection television, trace all the parts on paper then hot glue over the lines ,add the strews wet it out to remove all the paper.

    home depot for everything.

    Its pretty self explanatory ~

  • Nice evidence for dark matter by Leif Holmlid, enough H(0) in the galaxy to have supported Bussard's ramjet idea for interstellar travel if we ever get round to building a decent hyper-efficient fusion drive. Must read some more Ian M Banks Sci Fi Culture series as a vision of how good (or bad) its going to get!


    If Holmlid's H(0) is ubiquitous in space in the form of almost completely invisible dark matter, this might pose problems for interstellar travel at significant speeds due to collision of the spacecraft with it and subsequent heating, if it happens to pass through regions of space where it's present in high enough density. Or at least, this is what he proposed in 2002 when referring to Rydberg matter (RM) of hydrogen, before he found out about the existence of the ultradense form currently referred to with the H(0) notation. His latest work has a reference to this paper.


    https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/333/2/360/1019164


    Quote

    [...] As a final corollary, it should be noted that interstellar space flight will be extremely difficult or impossible if dense RM clouds exist in the path of the spaceship. At a velocity of only 10 per cent of the speed of light, the heating of the spaceship passing through such a cloud with a rather low density of 1015 m−3 (density 10−3 of a dense RM phase) will be enormous, equal to 20 GW m−2, giving a temperature of 25 000 K for a surface in radiative equilibrium. Since the clouds are almost invisible, they will be difficult to observe and map beforehand or during the journey. Of course, in the close vicinity of stars large voids in the RM will be formed caused by gravitation