QX Concepts - A less critical Rossi thread.

  • So here is what I think is needed to build a QX.

    That sounds like a good position for someone to begin research into the area.

    But it is mile away from doing a replication. You don't know the details of the design, the materials, the fuel, nor the output from the power pack.

    As Rossi is very secret about such things it is unlikely we will get to know them in the near future.

  • After looking at the work of Simon Brink and how he predicts lithium is an element that can induce atomic hydrogen to achieve fractional states, I see even more reason to think that the QX could work. Of course, we need proof.

  • Adrian,


    There are a lot of details we don't know but I think we are aware of enough to begin a replication effort. After reading the work of Simon Brink, I'm more convinced that Rossi's using the powerful transients in the abnormal glow discharge zone to slam the atomic hydrogen and lithium into each other to induce nuclear reactions. I think the basics of the QX are not too awful mysterious anymore. Actually, I think inducing reactions with a QX like system will be easier than with powder based systems. Once you achieve a plasma of the proper composition, enter the abnormal glow discharge regime, and find the optimum frequency to pulse it at (which will vary depending upon the parameters of your system), the excess heat is very likely.


    If I had a lab, which I don't, this is the path I would follow. Although we need third party tests to verify Rossi's claims about the QX, I have a feeling that his system could really be the pinnacle of LENR.

  • I think it might be a good idea to go back to basics when it comes to figuring out how the E-Cat QX works.


    We know that before Rossi achieved anything in the lab, Piantelli and Focardi were figuring out how to produce significant excess heat from nickel and hydrogen alone. They were able to get nickel to breathe in and then release large quantities of hydrogen. I expect this was possible because they were forming a large number of Super Abundant Vacancies in the nickel. When the hydrogen was migrating in or out of these SAVs during a temperature or pressure change, the nickel would go into an excited state and begin to produce excess heat in addition to emitting x-rays, gamma rays, and sometimes neutrons.


    Moving forward, while Rossi and Focardi were working together, it is likely Rossi added reverse spillover catalysts to optimize the absorption of hydrogen. Here is a critical element -- to produce significant excess heat you MUST have atomic hydrogen present.


    So we have nickel with SAVs in the lattice continually producing excess heat for long periods of time in self sustain mode. Dr. Levi witnessed such a test in which he operated an E-Cat for eighteen hours in self sustain mode producing spikes of up to 130kW of heat.


    However, later systems didn't seem to self sustain as robustly or in the same manner. This does not mean they were not capable of self sustaining but that something fundamental had changed about how they were designed.


    We know that by the time the first one megawatt plant was tested, Andrea Rossi was using radio frequency generators. When the temperature inside the gaseous environment of his reactors would reach a certain temperature, he'd turn on the RFGs and he could then turn off the traditional resistive heating elements. The reactor would quasi-self sustain with only the power of the RFGs. In fact, to power the entire first one megawatt plant, only one hundred watts were needed to be used.


    So what was the role of the RFGs?


    The obvious first role would be to produce atomic hydrogen. By producing atomic hydrogen in a plasma and not using spillover catalysts, you can further enhance the loading of hydrogen into nickel. I think it's possible that in these systems, although he may have vacuumed his fuel very well to remove oxygen and other contaminants that would clog up the lattice and prevent absorption, he may not have utilized repeated cycles of hydrogenation and heating under vacuum like he did originally. This leads to the next role of the RFGs.


    The second role of the RFGs could be to sputter the nickel surface so that particulate vaporized nickel is released. We know that the optimize size of particles is important. Piantelli mentions in his patents that the nickel atoms should be arranged in certain types of clusters to have them interact with atomic hydrogen and induce LENR. My thinking is that the sputtering created the same nano-scale clustering of nickel atoms that may also exist in the lattice after SAVs have formed. But instead of producing them only in the interior of the nickel, Rossi was producing them both on the surface and perhaps even in the atmospheric environment of the reactor.


    Now, we have vaporized nickel -- perhaps along with lithium and other additives such as argon to enhance the sputtering effect -- in the reactor along with atomic hydrogen. According to Randell Mills, Simon Brinks, and others, some how when interacting with the nickel atoms/clusters the atomic hydrogen would re-arrange to shrink or become more dense. I would say that we don't really know what happens to them. However, somehow they are transformed. Once this takes place, they can far more easily penetrate into the nucleus of adjacent atoms and induce LENR reactions.


    So in these powder based systems utilizing RFGs, I suspect there were several factors to optimize to produce a powerful effect.


    One - The atmospheric composition which probably included "catalytic" elements such as lithium and argon.

    Two - The geometry of the reactor to insure that the glow discharge plasma would indeed come in contact with the nickel to be sputtered.

    Three - The power of the RFG. We want a plasma to form but we may not want too much sputtering to take place or such a high quantity of atomic hydrogen to be present so that all of the nickel is converted into NiH.

    Four - The frequency of the RFG should be adjusted to maximize the interactions in the plasma that make the atomic hydrogen slam into other vaporized particles or clusters on the surface of the nickel powder.

    Five - The texture of the powder to make sure that when it is struck by charged particles that the most powerful surface plasmon polaritons or surface electric waves are produced.


    Now, I'm going to skip a few generations of reactors to keep this post brief.


    When Rossi was working on the original Madam Curie or ECATX, he was attempting to directly interact atomic hydrogen and other vaporized atoms. My guess is that due to the very high vaporization temperature of nickel, he decided to focus on utilizing lithium as the fuel. He realized that instead of using a huge open volume where a low level glow discharge would exist, he could maximize the reactions in a more narrow column of plasma. We know that he claims the plasma column in the QX is tiny -- maybe a millimeter in diameter. In such a zone the plasma could be more intense. However, he'd still need to find a way to make the particles slam into each other to produce the modified hydrogen and induce LENR. Looking at existing literature, he probably ran into all the work performed in the abnormal glow discharge regime. In this area, you can produce powerful transients and surges in current. These sudden jolts are exactly what are needed to slam the particles into each other. He may be pulsing the input at 100khz, however, these transients which make the particles slam into each other may take place in much smaller timeframes. If you watch the oscilloscope from the Stockholm presentation, you will various spikes that go up and down at a far higher magnitude than the input. It is during these spikes that I think the majority of the LENR reactions are taking place.


    Basically, the QX is a way of focusing and concentrating the LENR reactions. Many other systems can be built, but the QX is far more precise, far more controllable, and far more powerful.


    For those who want to keep researching powder based systems, I'd suggest designing a resonant cavity in which a glow discharge would easily form at the lowest possible power. On the interior walls of this cavity, I would place high surface area nickel powder. On the exterior, I would install a resistor wire to heat up the walls. I would then insert various concentrations of hydrogen and argon into the reactor to begin with and perhaps later on add a pellet of lithium. (I should mention that the whole device should be vacuumed out extremely well to remove oxygen.)


    My guess is that if you could find the optimal frequency and voltage, excess heat production would begin at very high COP.


    However, I think the QX is even simpler and should be tested first.

  • Rossi has said many times that his reactors don't emit any radiation. I also think I'm correct in saying the QX has no radaition schielding because at least some light from the plasma escapes.


    Since other people do see radaition from Nickel and Hydrogen, doesn't this suggest that's not what Rossi is using?

  • I have no doubt that Rossi's reactors have all produced some quantity of radiation. This is because Focardi and Piantelli's systems produced x-rays, gammas, and neutrons. However, we know that the neutrons emitted by LENR reactions are not always true neutrons. Otherwise, Russ George would have died years ago during his experiment that produced "tellerons." Rossi shields his reactors -- at least the ones that utilized nickel powder -- so that none of these forms of radiation escape. I'm unsure what type of shielding the QX utilizes. The heat exchanger would probably shield at least some of the radiation.


    I'm thinking the QX utilizes the same basic phenomenon as his other systems, but that the proton lithium fusion is less likely to produce neutrons and other emissions that would be more difficult to shield.

  • SK Reactor.


    The information that follows is largely from Rossi's JONP. While it is not proven it is the only information that we have. For discussion, I assume it is correct unless proven otherwise.


    Origin of the SK


    The "Tiger Cat", of which four were used in the Doral, was the culmination of Rossi's many designs using solid powder as fuel. It was not tested for long enough and Rossi found it had control problems that required him to spend half his life there to keep them working. Worse, Rossi discovered that they were really worn after a year. Greenyer and Axil have suggested this was due to EVOs which would make it difficult to fix.


    Rossi kept on experimenting and read widely. Following initial promising results with a plasma reactor, he apparently concluded it was easier to start again with a plasma system than fix the problems on the latest solid fuel reactor.


    This time he tested the QX for a year, and he demonstrated it last September. It was tiny, only about 12 mm long by 6 mm diameter. It has had small changes in size since and the current size is not known. It was rated at 100 Watts and was demonstrated at 25 Watts to reduce the possibility of problems. The COP is not known as the power used by the power pack was not given, but it appears to be high. As shown in my post on the Rossi blog thread, one would need at least a COP of 25 to compete against gas heating.


    In order to reach commercialization as quickly as possible and preserve secrecy, Rossi decided to sell metered heat. He has apparently got more than one client as a result of the Sept demo, with the major one wanting 40 MW. The 100 W QX is really too small to make such a large output and he has been working on increasing the output. The QX is now rated at 1 kW and he started working on larger reactors dubbed Sk 10 kW and SK 100 kW.


    Rossi originally hoped to have the QX in production by October and sales of them to start at the end of the year. This was optimistic. Production by years' endwais more likely, with sales by mid-2019.

    The situation was complicated by promising results from the SK 10 kW. It looks


    like production of the QX was put on hold until this difficult decision was made in conjunction with his client. The SK was obviously a more attractive solution but untested compared to the QX. The decision to go for production with the SK was made about a month ago.


    Several key problems have been solved with QX. The material for the tube has to be transparent so the radiation does not make the tube too hot. Quartz failed and Rossi said he had found a better material. Boron nitride has been suggested, but what exactly was used is not known.


    The heat exchanger is a difficult problem. Rossi said he is very happy with a break though design. It allows a user temperature of supercritical steam and can stand the pressure.


    The power pack used in the Sept demo was large and inefficient. It was providing only a couple of Watts output yet required cooling. Some have suggested the

    problem was electricity feedback from the reactor, but this is not known. The new power pack is smaller and much more efficient. Rossi says it can control a number of reactors.


    The SK Reactor

    Little is known about it.

    1. It is rated at 10 kW

    2. One client has been involved in the testing and is helping with the production line. (ABB?)

    3. It is expected to last a year but has not been tested that long yet.

    4. It will be produced on a highly automated production line. So even should Rossi die, the technology will be known.


    The Jan 31st Demo

    The "industrial" SK will be shown in operation.

    The total input and output energy will be measured and shown so the COP can be calculated.

    It will be live-streamed and viewers can ask questions.

    Frank Acland will be there and also answer questions and write a report.

    The critics will certainly doubt the measurements.


    Rossi rightly thinks a commercial approach will be the fastest way to use LENR.

    It will gradually become accepted, as more independent customers buy metered heat.

    The real breakthrough will be an SK powered gas turbine. The developer of this claims to have run a modified turbine already, and Rossi says a model of a

    turbine for SK power has now been made. A turbine manufacturer is unlikely to give updates until they have the finished article.

    No major company in energy or transport will be able to ignore that, and will either license the technology or start working on it themselves. I don't expect this

    to happen until 2020.


    Only Rossi knows what his objectives are and it is an illusion for others to think they know. Obviously he wants his inventions to work. He says he will go on working until he is 99 if he can. After an SK turbine is developed Rossi will no longer be in control whether he wants to be or not.


    If you see factual mistake (not opinions) s, please point them out. Otherwise you re free to quote this comment and criticize it in the Rossi blog thread.

  • Shane,

    I haven't seen any patent from Rossi that struck me as basic and important. Rossi says he is working on 64? patents and maybe some of those are. Perhaps some key things have already been covered in the past by others.


    I get the feeling Rossi does not believe patents will help much and has stated he thinks manufacturing a a low price offers the best protection.


    I don't pretend to be expert on patents in this area but think that the patent situation is such a mess only the lawyers will win,


    My understanding was the Tiger Cats were made up from a number of modules but Rossi referred to them as units.

  • I have no doubt that Rossi's reactors have all produced some quantity of radiation. This is because Focardi and Piantelli's systems produced x-rays, gammas, and neutrons. However, we know that the neutrons emitted by LENR reactions are not always true neutrons. Otherwise, Russ George would have died years ago during his experiment that produced "tellerons." Rossi shields his reactors -- at least the ones that utilized nickel powder -- so that none of these forms of radiation escape. I'm unsure what type of shielding the QX utilizes. The heat exchanger would probably shield at least some of the radiation.


    I'm thinking the QX utilizes the same basic phenomenon as his other systems, but that the proton lithium fusion is less likely to produce neutrons and other emissions that would be more difficult to shield.

    There is sometimes in physics cases where a change of state occurs. The cause of the LENR reactions as it exists in one state generates radiation but after a change in its state, no radiation is produced. It is mistaken to think that LENR either produces radiation or no radiation all of the time.

  • Why is the abnormal glow discharge zone so important?


    I think BLP gives us a good explanation.


    Consider the following from their document at https://brilliantlightpower.co…Pt2-Analytical-080618.pdf


    Go to page six


    They explain that in an arc discharge the electrons liberated are removed so that the space charge problem goes away. This increases the reaction rate dramatically.


    So what happens is that when a hydrino or altered form of hydrogen is formed electrons are emitted that can block additional interactions between hydrogen atoms and catalysts. When there is an arc discharge, the space charge is removed.


    In the abnormal glow discharge zone, you approach what would be considered an arc discharge but you don't actually get there. However, you get surges in current as the plasma becomes much more conductive. This means that the space charge which would increase the resistence is being removed and more reactions are allowed to occur.


    It's obvious to me that not only hydrino reactions occur but nuclear reactions as catalysts also absorb hydrinos and induce nuclear reactions.


    Remember, Randell Mills had two patents on this process before he distanced himself from LENR.


    Since the QX is sealed without a continual flow of hydrogen, the small amount of hydrogen present would not allow for the type of energy production claimed by Rossi. If only hydrino reactions were occurring, excess heat might take place for minutes or hours, but then it would end. The QX is claimed to operate for weeks or months so nuclear reactions must be taking place.

  • The QX and the Suncell are very similar devices. I'm realizing this as time goes on. The Quark, however, is far simpler and I expect BLP to probably come up with a similar device in the near future. The Suncell is simply far more complicated than what is required.

  • There is sometimes in physics cases where a change of state occurs. The cause of the LENR reactions as it exists in one state generates radiation but after a change in its state, no radiation is produced. It is mistaken to think that LENR either produces radiation or no radiation all of the time.

    Are you suggesting a new state of matter, beyond solid, liquid, gas, plasma? I would think you must be because some systems are plasma based and some solid based. There is no consistent phase transition for one unified effect. This new fifth stage of matter you are proposing is certainly a Nobel Prize winner if you can supply evidence. You could then name the trasition "Axilation". If not a state of matter, what kind of state are you talking about specifically? I'm in a state of confusion reading your vague statement.:)

  • Quote

    The Lugano Ecat certainly produced a burst of gammas on start-up as reported and measured by Francesco Celani

    I don't recall that. Maybe there is a link? I seem to recall Dr. Celani reported radiation detection once in a demo of the 2011 simple "steam" ecats. Dr. Bianchi has been tasked by Rossi with looking for radiation in many subsequent experiments and has not reported anything above background. As best I recall without looking it all up again.

    1. Andrea Rossi November 2, 2018 at 12:10 PM

      Albert Ellul:

      The highest rated module we are able to make now is the 20 kW Ecat SK, which can be combined with as many modules you want to reach the power you want.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

    So it seems the SK 10 kW has been re-rated to 20 kW and this is the module he will be showing on Jan 31.


    If the SK is demoed at anything close to full power it will be difficult to claim this is just measurement error.

  • Are you suggesting a new state of matter, beyond solid, liquid, gas, plasma? I would think you must be because some systems are plasma based and some solid based. There is no consistent phase transition for one unified effect. This new fifth stage of matter you are proposing is certainly a Nobel Prize winner if you can supply evidence. You could then name the trasition "Axilation". If not a state of matter, what kind of state are you talking about specifically? I'm in a state of confusion reading your vague statement.:)

    Just use WIKI


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_matter


    There are actually 500 states of matter mostly via entanglement


    https://www.sciencedaily.com/r…/2012/12/121221233120.htm