QX Concepts - A less critical Rossi thread.

  • Good! We are all wondering/thinking and not simply assuming the sustaining 3 second excitation was 100khz DC pulses.

    1. CC December 28, 2018 at 9:51 PM

      Dear Dr Andrea Rossi,

      you said here that in the set up of the experiments on course to define the theory related to the Rossi effect there was a frequency generator.

      Can you answer to this: do have frequency variations any influence upon the effect?

      Happy New Year

      CC

    2. Translate Andrea Rossi December 29, 2018 at 7:44 AM

      CC:

      Yes.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

  • I have been further studying the papers of George Egely, and I'm becoming more impressed with the similarities between the Chernetsky Self Generating Discharge Tube and the QX/SK. The basis for the concept seems to be that when highly non-linear and out of equilibrium conditions exist in the reactor (for example at the moment where a discharge in the "negative resistance" zone of the abnormal glow discharge regime is turned off), anomalous energy is produced in the forms of heat, electricity, and light - in addition to longitudinal waves. To produce such a condition, you provide a sufficiently high voltage and high current pulse (that has a critical current density), turn off the input before a true positive resistance arc discharge takes place (this accelerates the destruction of the electrodes), and allow self generating and self powering oscillations to take place that produce even more energy. In an optimized system in which the power supply is tuned to the reactor so the whole setup is highly resonant, these oscillations can continue for some time. Interestingly, George Egely states that by not allowing a return path back to the power supply (for example using a diode) these oscillations will thermalize into heat. But I'm also thinking that utilizing such a diode may make the system less resonant. If it was easy to simply stick a diode in the circuit to prevent the power surges that heat up the power supply, Rossi would have already done it.


    With the QX, Rossi only applies a high powered pulse once and then either allows the self generating oscillations to continue without input OR he helps them along by applying additional pulses. I wonder if you can determine the exact structure of such self generating oscillations and supply a wave form with low voltage and low current that would help them continue to exist for a longer period of time. This way, you don't have to continuously use high voltage and high current that could erode your electrodes.


    I'm also thinking that the use of lithium in the QX may be another factor that dramatically boosts the output compared to Chernetsky's technology. The lithium combined with argon (the bright blue light from the QX makes me think that argon is being used) and hydrogen would reproduce one of Black Light Power's best "resonant transfer plasma" catalyst combinations (equal or even better than their hydrogen, argon, strontium combination).


    So here's my thinking of how a typical setup might work.


    1) Have a reactor and power supply tuned to a highly resonant state.

    2) Pulse the reactor with high voltage/current with a FAST RISE TIME with a cathode that has already been pulsed several times at even higher current to produce a sharp, rough tip at the apex.

    3) Cut off the pulse before a true "positive resistance" arc discharge is achieved.

    4) The atomic hydrogen produced will interact with the catalysts argon and lithium along with possibly small amounts of nano-metal particles from cathode erosion to produce a resonant transfer plasma. At the same time, fusion events between lithium and hydrogen will take place.

    5) Due to the existence of only the slowly degrading resonant transfer plasma and the nuclear reactions taking place (the self generating discharge) resonant oscillations will appear in the plasma. These oscillations produce even more excess energy by allowing hydrogen and lithium to fuse in addition to zero point energy extraction.

    6) To optimize these self generating oscillations and make them last even longer, a series of pulses with wave form generators can be applied to help support them. Instead of high voltage and high current, only a small voltage and current need to be applied. This is absolutely critical because the biggest problem with the Chernetsky device and the PAGD is that the small tips erode away. Coating the electrodes in platinum could be a way of minimizing the erosion because it is a very poor thermionic emitter which would make it more difficult to push the device into a true arc discharge.


    I really think this is a simple system that would not take a fortune to replicate. In fact, the most expensive equipment would be the oscilloscope to monitor what is going on.

  • Let's try to keep this thread on the QX and related technologies.


    Once again, I'd like to highly suggest that people read George Egely's series of articles. They are full of information that detail how the plasma based LENR has been around in one form or another for a very long time. The information on Chernetsky and Paulo Correa's work is also directly applicable to the QX. I do NOT claim that he is 100% correct on all aspects of theory. However, I think the information he provides is extremely useful when it comes to linking together REPEATED COMMON THEMES that can help replicators build systems.


    One common theme is pulsing the discharge into the negative resistance zone and quickly disrupting it so that a highly non-linear, out of equilibrium environment is produced in the plasma.


    Another common theme is the presence of sharp points or roughened surfaces on the electrodes. This can be in the form of cracks or tips on electrodes or nano-particles from cathode erosion.


    Yet another common theme is magnetism: these high rate of change discharges produce magnetic fields powerful enough to allow for electrons and positive ions to self organize into plasmoid structures.


    Perhaps another interesting theme is the use of noble gases in addition to hydrogen. Bostic discovered that the addition of even a small quantity of argon (five percent) to a hot fusion spheromak plasmoid increases stability and increases x-ray output ten fold, Papp used noble gases in this engine, Black Light Power uses argon as a hydrino catalyst, and Shoulders discovered that noble gases would aid EVO formation.


    A common theme in LENR also seems to be LITHIUM. Multiple researchers have been able to induce hydrogen lithium reactions at very low energies. For example, look at the work of Unified Gravity Corporation.


    In my opinion, bringing these themes together is what allowed Andrea Rossi to produce the QX.

  • Alan Smith


    Quote

    So you don't think that the verification of the Brillouin reactor by SRI really happened?


    I think tests were performed at SRI and there is some chance that they were properly reported. But absent credible replication by an investigator in a prestigious, preferably national, test lab, I don't trust results from SRI because they have a vested interest. The results are modest and could represent errors. SRI's LENR work was run by Dr. McKubre, the same investigator who, not long ago, spoke enthusiastically about Rossi's potential and even attended to Papp's claims. This, of course, indicates excessive and misplaced trust and credulity. There are also the grandiose claims made in the past by Brillouin principals going all the way back to Sterling Alan's PESN web site. None seems to have come true. Based on the facts so far, I do not trust that either Brillouin principals or the SRI lab Dr. McKubre ran will be as cautious and objective as necessary to prove conclusively that Brillouin really has Eout>Ein. Of course, they might. I do not think the evidence for it is objectively very strong. It's just an opinion.

  • Reading through G. Egeley's reviews certainly focuses the mind on what is needed for LENR to work reliably, for a commercial fusion reactor. The central theoretical idea is that unless we have a tried and tested method for producing muons ie heavy electrons to form D-u-D complexes (to overcome Coulombic repulsion) ending up with He and GeV of energy release, all we are going to see is very low rates of LENR. Enough to detect some transmutation of elements etc but no reliable energy source. Unless AR has somehow found a way of doing it? Maybe by some freak of chance he has found a way of splitting the proton into quarks and then re-synthesized them into long-lasting muons, for example, but then he's not even using deuterium. Utter genius. He's managed to make it work just with hydrogen!

  • Reading through G. Egeley's reviews certainly focuses the mind on what is needed for LENR to work reliably, for a commercial fusion reactor. The central theoretical idea is that unless we have a tried and tested method for producing muons ie heavy electrons to form D-u-D complexes (to overcome Coulombic repulsion) ending up with He and GeV of energy release, all we are going to see is very low rates of LENR. Enough to detect some transmutation of elements etc but no reliable energy source. Unless AR has somehow found a way of doing it? Maybe by some freak of chance he has found a way of splitting the proton into quarks and then re-synthesized them into long-lasting muons, for example, but then he's not even using deuterium. Utter genius. He's managed to make it work just with hydrogen!


    What if "producing muons ie heavy electrons to form D-u-D complexes " might be an invalid fundamental assumption. Maybe the LENR reaction is getting its energy primarily from the vacuum. It might be that particles are also produced, bit as a minor factor of what is really going on. Isn't it logical to suspect that if no fusion related gammas are detected, then fusion is not occurring.

  • https://arxiv.org/abs/1302.7041




    Mechanism behind self-sustained oscillations in direct current glow discharges and dusty plasmas

    Sung Nae Cho

    (Submitted on 28 Feb 2013 (v1), last revised 9 Apr 2013 (this version, v2))

    An alternative explanation to the mechanism behind self-sustained oscillations of ions in direct current (DC) glow discharges is provided. Such description is distinguished from the one provided by the fluid models, where oscillations are attributed to the positive feedback mechanism associated with photoionization of particles and photoemission of electrons from the cathode. Here, oscillations arise as consequence of interaction between an ion and the surface charges induced by it at the bounding electrodes. Such mechanism provides an elegant explanation to why self-sustained oscillations occur only in the negative resistance region of the voltage-current characteristic curve in the DC glow discharges. Furthermore, this alternative description provides an elegant explanation to the formation of plasma fireballs in the laboratory plasma. It has been found that oscillation frequencies increase with ion's surface charge density, but at the rate which is significantly slower than it does with the electric field. The presented mechanism also describes self-sustained oscillations of ions in dusty plasmas, which demonstrates that self-sustained oscillations in dusty plasmas and DC glow discharges involve common physical processes.
  • Quote

    mmckubre is a member. He might care to answer for himself- though i would not blame him if he chose not to.


    Yes, thanks, I know that. I would guess many details of what Brillouin has and does are under NDA though of course, I don't know. I would be pleased to engage Dr. McKubre in, from my side for sure, polite discourse about Brillouin but I doubt that he would want to which is fine also. It would be peachy if Brillouin were the answer to our energy needs but from the news releases I have seen from the company's principals over the years, mostly before they teamed up with SAI, I doubt it.

  • e axil

    Because cold fusion running on muons has been well established since Luis Alvarez's work in the fifties and the D-u-T complex has since been observed experimentally. Muon catalysed fusion does generate gammas of similar spectra to Russ George's published data (on here) - why propose much more esoteric mechanisms like vac energy and evo's when we have one clear well researched mechanism already in existence? Maybe one idea is that under certain conditions ordinary electrons can be made to act like muons-could their effective mass be artificially increased by applying RF pulse/laser stimulation for instance? Is this mode of stimulation understood in terms of its effect on electron spin and thus magnetic field...possibly increasing effective inertia and thus mass? Wyttenbach's theories have really concentrated on proton spin rotatoral issues, maybe more theoretical work on electron spin might be appropriate at this point. It would be a neat answer to all the disparate cold fusion data going back to F&P's electrolytic expts - were they simply synthesizing muon-like heavy electrons which in turn catalysed D-D fusion and thus a vast release of energy causing one or two melt-downs? If the electron spin is increased towards infinity could its effective mass increase relativistically to mimic a muon? Relativistic electron mass increases by an amount equal to the Lorentz factor of 100X as their velocity approaches the speed of light. This could explain both Brillouin Energy's conservative, cautious over energy results and Rossi's claims (which we all agree he tends to exaggerate).

    l

  • And another thing-in a complex plasma cloud of electrons, protons, deuterons, transition metals / carbon nano or pico-particles He Xe and Ar gas atoms as catalysts (might as well throw in the kitchen sink as well!) the heavier atomic structures will be relatively stationary with respect to the electrons zapping about. Sufficiently high voltage RF stimulation could well accelerate electrons to say 0.995c ie just below light speed giving them a relative mass 100X their stationary mass, approaching in effect half the known muon mass of 207X. The probability of protons or deuterons undergoing fusion due to muon-like electrons whizzing past could be therefore half that of muons which do, of course whizz past at similar velocities and have 2 millionths of a second half-lives. How electron spin or consequent magnetic fields fits into this scenario I am not sure, but it is conceivable that interaction with P or D magnetic fields could promote tunnelling through the Coulomb barrier (if we now assume that the nuclear strong force is a magnetic interaction between up and down quarks)...all just bog standard physics really?

  • The other intriguing piece of evidence is that replacing the electron with a muon results in a smaller diameter proton (measured now in both P and D) - this could be caused by an increased strong nuclear force binding the three component quarks more tightly together - and if this force is magnetic how does the presence of a muon increase it? The simplest answer is probably that the muon orbits much more closely to the proton, so induces a more powerful magnetic field within the proton - which if true opens the door to electron spin modulation/electron induced magnetic fields influencing proton structure and therefore probabilities of proton or deuterium fusion. Could this be a much simpler theoretical explanation for cold fusion underlying AR's new SK? Are both electron spin and velocity important factors in mimicking muon-induced fusion.? Hasn't this ever been suggested or analysed before? (maybe Hagelstein?)

  • The simplest answer is probably that the muon orbits much more closely to the proton, so induces a more powerful magnetic field within the proton - which if true opens the door to electron spin modulation/electron induced magnetic fields influencing proton structure and therefore probabilities of proton or deuterium fusion. Could this be a much simpler theoretical explanation for cold fusion underlying AR's new SK? Are both electron spin and velocity important factors in mimicking muon-induced fusion.? Hasn't this ever been suggested or analysed before? (maybe Hagelstein?)


    If you understand the 10 digits exact 4D hydrogen model, then you will also understand that there is no classically orbiting electron. The electron must be treated as magnetic flux - as already Mills explained for the reduced mass effect. Nevertheless a kinetic model is not wrong as it still gives about 5 digits and also explains most things.


    LENR - aka fusion is not about storing energy - it's about releasing energy to be able to fuse. That's why kinetic fusion is nonsense. The muon 4D-flux is much larger that the minimal "bond" (156keV released/exchanged) needed to form out the weakest "nuclear bond" (= flux change/ flux compression) thus it can compensate for the energy released by a proton.


    In Deuterium fusion (A+D) we also see the Deuterium (temporarily) added like 2 combined proton's what looks like two protons are held together by magnetic flux.

  • Yes, that's right, the effect of the electron is to exert a magnetic flux on the nucleon(s) it orbits-just like an electrical coil wrapped around a conductor induces a magnetic flux through the conductor. The magnitude of the magnetic flux presumably increases as the electron velocity approaches light speed and becomes an electron cloud with no discrete orbit. The question arises as to what changes in electron spin exert on this system, can spin actually be modified or is it a fixed parameter? I'm sure you'll agree that most of the hypotheses around LENR/cold fusion seem to be proton-centric, neglecting other possibilities based on electron anomalies (eg acting like muons for millionths of a second). Maybe as you say the possibility can be ruled out on energetics grounds, as was the case for electron capture.

  • This is very weird-the magnetic dipole moment (a function of charge and spin) of the electron is over two orders of magnitude greater than that of the muon even though they have the same -1 charge and 1/2 spin. (-9.284.10^-24 electron/-4.290.10^-26 J/T muon). Maybe the stronger magnetic force exerted by the electron on the proton/deuteron is a factor in increasing the probability of fusion, ie of electrons acting like muons. Doesn't this suggest also the spin of all subatomic particles is not fixed as the QED/Standard model would like us to think, but spin velocities can go fro zero to possibly light speed?

  • This is very weird-the magnetic dipole moment (a function of charge and spin) of the electron is over two orders of magnitude greater than that of the muon even though they have the same -1 charge and 1/2 spin. (-9.284.10^-24 electron/-4.290.10^-26 J/T muon). Maybe the stronger magnetic force exerted by the electron on the proton/deuteron is a factor in increasing the probability of fusion, ie of electrons acting like muons. Doesn't this suggest also the spin of all subatomic particles is not fixed as the QED/Standard model would like us to think, but spin velocities can go fro zero to possibly light speed?


    This is easy to explain. All mass is electro magnetic mass (field flux). The mass equivalence is given by the de-Broglie radius, which in fact is much smaller for the muon.

  • its similar to test with a mig welder changing out the gas mixes to learn what will do what. not much video and not much written. Also having a chamber to magnetically levitate the molten ball or lightning ball would take a more like a particle accelerator tube to keep it centered and not blow out a wall, its an engineers nightmare.

  • Maybe the plasma ball is sustained by electrons resonating in the high frequency electric fields - yielding very high spin velocities? Energy is then released as photons and heat. Same thing occurring In the SK - with additional energy released from high spin electrons muonically inducing fusion of p to He plus heat plus gammas? Be nice if it did, we'd have a plausible theory for cold fusion/LENR quantum physicists couldn't argue with.

  • In regards to the plasma balls, my biggest question is how Rossi manages to prevent erosion of his electrodes. Every other system I've came across that produced plasma balls also produced massive cathode erosion.

    TheFutureIsNow


    January 7, 2019 at 11:46 AM

    Dear Andrea,


    The following document contains a wealth of information, but please specifically read the paper on page 172 entitled Comparative studies performed on “fireballs” formed in direct current and high frequency discharges


    M.Sanduloviciu, C.Borciat, V.Melnig and C.Gherman

    “Al.l. Cuza” University, Department of Plasma Physics, 6600 Iasi, Romania t

    present address: Universit6 Paris-Sud, L.P.G.P., bat. 212, 91405 Orsay cedex, France


    https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/...


    The paper explains how plasma balls can be formed on electrodes during DC discharges and can then become free floating when exposed to high frequency electric currents. I really think that this paper is absolutely and directly applicable to the production of plasma balls in the SK. Would you please read the article and provide your thoughts on how it applies to what is happening inside the QX/SK?


    My guess is that you are producing a plasmoid with the initial high voltage and high current impulse when you cross the “negative resistance” zone of the abnormal glow discharge. Self generating oscillations at high frequency are produced that you re-inforce with additional signals that allow the plasmoid to exist free floating. This prevents the plasmoid from continually sitting on the electrodes and producing massive erosion.

    _________________________________________

    Andrea Rossi

    January 7, 2019 at 4:55 PM


    TheFutureIsNow:


    Sorry, you are floating in a confidential field of information. I cannot answer in positive or in negative.


    Warm Regards,

  • In regards to the plasma balls, my biggest question is how Rossi manages to prevent erosion of his electrodes. Every other system I've came across that produced plasma balls also produced massive cathode erosion.


    See also this post on the Tao effect


    High Temperature Superconductivity and LENR


    Explanation of the Tao effect

    J.E. Hirsch

    (Submitted on 26 Feb 2005)


    https://arxiv.org/abs/cond-mat/0502626

  • Here is my latest theory on the operation of the QX.


    A fast, sudden pulse of sufficient rise time of sufficient current/voltage produces a "fireball" (plasmoid, spheromak, etc) as the "negative resistance zone" is arrived at; however, it is the production of the plasma ball according to papers online that allows for the negative resistance phenomenon to take place. Apparently, the double layer on the surface functions as a source of ions.


    Nearly simultaneously, the plasma ball which is allowing the negative resistance effect to take place starts to oscillate and exchange energy and matter with the overall plasma. It's existence is literally fed by the heat in the plasma.


    Also, during this time, the very nature of this plasmoid is inducing nuclear reactions. Perhaps, it is due to the double layer surface of the plasmoid which contains postive ions on the interior and negative ions (electrons) on the exterior.


    The plasmoid uses some of this anomalous nuclear heat to sustain itself and produce more oscillations which consist of current flowing through the plasma. This current produces both heat and light.


    The main factors required to make these devices function is to provide the most optimal elements for nuclear reactions to take place.


    Hydrogen and Argon is probably adequate to produce the effect. However, the addition of lithium and perhaps tiny quantities of platinum emitted during the sputtering of the cathode produces an optimum fuel source.


    By using a magnetic mirror effect, perhaps with permanent magnets behind the cathode and anodes, you can trap the plasmoid in the center of the tube so that cathode erosion does not take place.


    In short, the fireball or plasmoid is the key to LENR in the SK. The fireball is a unique self organizing structure that produces nuclear reactions and exchanges the energy with the plasma via self generating oscillations which exchange matter and energy.


    Final notes.


    1) The same type of fireball can be produced by biasing the anode. In this case, the fireball will be produced at the anode. In systems where the anode is not biased, the fireballs can be produced at the cathode. They are the same phenomenon regardless where they are located.


    2) This phenomenon is probably taking place inside the lattice of metals where hydrogen can exist as a plasma and setup double layers.

  • Here is one citation out of many that show that for a negative resistance to take place in a plasma discharge that a fireball or at least a plasma column with a double layer must exist.


    https://books.google.com/books…2%20and%20cathode&f=false


    For its appearance, a negative resistance requires an active component in the electrical circuit able to act as a source of energy. In the case of plasma, this component is the self consistent DL existing at the border of a fireball. The potential drop across the self-consistent DL is almost equal with the ionization potential of the working gas. The initially thermal electrons are accelerated when passing through the DL, gaining enough energy to produce electron-neutral excitation and ionization impacts. In this way, an enhancement of the charged particles (electrons and ions) production takes place, leading to a sudden increase of the current collected by the electrode. The DL works as a nonlinear circuit element able to convert the thermal energy into electrical energy, i.e., it is a source of energy in the electrical circuit, creating all of the conditions necessary for the appearance of the S-type NDR effect in the current voltage characteristic of a plasma conductor.

  • http://www.jspf.or.jp/JPFRS/PDF/Vol3/jpfrs2000_03-614.pdf



    Flicker Noise Related to Electrical Double Layer Dynamics
    SANDULOVICIU Mircea*, SCHRITTWIESER ROMAN I, LOZNEANU ETZ|I|A,
    AVRAM Codrina, BALAN Petru and POHOATA Valentin
    Department of Plasma Physics, "Al. I. Cuza"University, RO-6600 lasi, Romania
    llnstitute for lon Physics, IJniversity of Innsbruck, A-6020 Innsbruck, Austria
    (Received: 18 January 2000 / Accepted: 4 April 2000)
    Abstract
    Transport of particles and energy by the effect of double layers, self-assembled at the edge of a
    confined plasma, towards a space charge configuration able to perform natural oscillations, reveals a new
    mechanism of anomalous transport of particles and energy in plasma devices. Based on these
    experimental results we suggest a new phenomenological basis for the explanation of flicker noise in
    fusion devices.
    Keywords:
    double layers, anomalous transport, instability stimulation.

  • The elegance of the QX is amazing.


    For a negative resistance to form in a plasma, a double layer much exist on the surface of a plasma ball that can serve as an ion source and exchange energy and matter. This plasma ball feeds off heat from the plasma and starts to oscillate. In the QX, if nuclear reactions are taking place in the plasma ball or more precisely in the double layers, additional oscillations can be produced. Basically, we have a self organizing structure that is converting LENR heat into current traveling through the plasma. This is literally a heat to electricity conversion device! However, only a portion of the current produced from the LENR reaction makes it out of the device and most is converted into heat or light.


    To optimize such a device, a few things need to be done.


    First, the best LENR fuel needs to be used. I'm guessing lithium is an ideal fuel.

    Secondly, the power supply needs to be tuned so that it can resonate with the self generating oscillations. This will extend the lifespan of the plasma ball.

    Third, the plasma ball needs to be kept off the surface of the electrode so that it does not produce massive erosion. The solutions are three fold: high frequencies applied to the device, a magnetic mirror effect, or a magnetic cusp effect.


    Do all of you realize how significant this is? The only thing that's lacking is PROOF that nuclear reactions take place in the plasma ball during the negative resistance zone. I think that will require third party replication. However, there is a lot of information that indicates that anomalous energy is produced. Just look at the anomalies witnessed by Chernetsky, Correa, Shoulders, Moray, and even the Saphire project!