QX Concepts - A less critical Rossi thread.

  • I'm not putting too many hopes into the Correa experiments. Although they produced bursts of excess power, their reactors were unstable in many ways. What I'm excited about is the fact that mainstream science has an explanation for what allows a negative resistance to take place in a plasma and this explanation is absolutely astounding to me. When you combine the properties (all documented by the mainstream) of the plasma ball and combine it with what we know about the QX, we can get a clear picture of how Andrea Rossi's device functions. The plasma ball's ability to feed off the heat of the reactor, exchange energy back and forth with the plasma, produce self sustaining oscillations, and store energy to suddenly release it upon decomposition becomes logical and rational. When you combine this with the idea of nuclear reactions taking place producing heat in the plasmoid, everything about the QX starts to become clearer.

  • TheFutureIsNow

    January 9, 2019 at 1:10 PM

    Dear Andrea,

    Through my online research I’ve discovered that the existence of a fire ball (plasma ball) with a double layer on the surface (protons in the enterior and electrons on the outside) is critical for the negative resistance phenomena to take place. The plasma ball acts almost as a capacitor or a source of energy to sustain the negative resistance. During this same time period, the plasma ball sustains itself by absorbing radiant energy (mostly heat) from the general plasma environment and begins to produce a self-generating oscillation. This oscillation is basically the conversion of heat into electrical current by the plasma ball.

    Due to the production of anomalous energy (in various forms) allegedly generated by a number of different devices producing plasma balls, it is logical to assume that in addition to zero point energy extraction LENR reactions are taking place near the double layers where positive ions and electrons can interact. If this is the case, this amazing self organizing plasma structure in the QX would take the heat generated, convert it to electrical current, and project this electricity through the discharge. A portion of this electrical current (perhaps a significant amount) is converted in the general plasma into heat and light! What remains can be collected as electricity.

    No steam boilers, no thermo-electric panels, no photothermalvotaic devices with tiny gaps: the plasma ball ON IT’S OWN converts the heat generated by LENR into electricity. The light and heat are primarily massive losses, but future versions of the QX could be designed to minimize the production of heat/light and boost direct electrical output.

    So fundamentally to maximize the energy produced by the plasma ball (if LENR produces a significant portion of the heat) the proper fuel mixture should be utilized. The first step seems to be choosing one or more noble gases. Argon is obvious the FIRST choice. However, additions of other gases like neon could also optimize the formation of the plasmoid.

    Next, once the noble gases have been selected, we need to look at the fuels that would be undergoing nuclear reactions. The two most obvious that come to mind are hydrogen (protium with no neutrons) and deuterium (with a neutron). My understanding is that deuterium has a higher cross section for nuclear reactions than hydrogen. Moreover, in spinning up the plasmoid, adding some quantity of deuterium would allow for another layer of positive ions to form with a different mass.

    Finally, we need to think about what the hydrogen and deuterium would interact with, in addition to possibly themselves. My guess is that lithium is an ideal fuel for a number of reasons. Basically, in a large number of experiments by different parties, it seems to be susceptible to nuclear reactions with hydrogen/deuterium at very low energies (a few hundred eV) far below what is predicted by traditional nuclear physics (hundreds of KeV minimum). Another fuel that should not be totally ignored are the NANO-PARTICLES produced via sputtering from the electrodes. These metal particles of nickel, manganese, or potentially even other metals such as platinum could also undergo nuclear reactions, although at a lower rate than lithium.

    Everything else is basically about helping sustain resonance (design of the power supply so it acts like a tank circuit), possibly applying low powered frequencies to the plasma ball after the initial pulse to help sustain it, and to keeping the plasmoid free floating and away from the electrode surfaces which would produce massive erosion.

    Any thoughts or comments?

    Andrea Rossi

    January 9, 2019 at 1:12 PM


    Obviously no answers or comments in positive or in negative in fields that we deem confidential.

    Warm Regards,



    I beleive that TheFutureIsNow really has something important to contribute here. The plasma balls form because of charge imbalance on the surfaces of nano-particles.

    An extreme concentration of charge on a surface of nano sized particles might produce a plasma mirror that might convert such a charge carrying particle into an analog black hole. The charge concentration would produce an polariton enabled event horizon where photons would be catalyzed from the vacuum.

    The polariton conversion of the electron layer is necessary because the event horizon needs to be born and destroyed almost instantly to liberate the photons that the electron charge layer based analog black holes catalyzes.

    Both normal and superconducting microparticles can support this charge concentration effect. The LENR reaction requires that light and/or phonons in some form is needed to produce polaritons in the polarized charge concentration. The RF that Rossi uses could produce charge concentration on the surface of particles that are formed in the plasma. It also could produce phonons that can produce polaritons,

    Spherical agglomeration of superconducting and normal microparticles with and without applied electric field



  • Perhaps a Di lithium crystal matrix is required to allow the phonons to oscillate above the amplitude required for the coloumb barrier to allow the tunneling of virtual black hole

    and liberating enough energy to be transferred via non radiative resonant coupling ? Wait .... sorry, just finished watching an episode of Star Trek....

    If anything Gentlemen, all of this pain and scrapping over the years in this LENR environment has allowed a greater 'out of the box' thinking among the many once stuffy, great potential thinking minds many of you have endeavored to use, You have used many colorful words and adverbs further justified by your actions to create 'scape goats' to carry your frustrated burdens of angst and pessimism.

    I enjoy your approach and this level of real science applied.

  • Here's an interesting article showing that electrons can be excited by lasers to act like muons- if they can be activated to shrink protons then surely they can also be activated to induce cold fusion - like muons?

    International weekly journal of science

    Proton-size puzzle deepens

    Measurement in ordinary hydrogen agrees with a surprising 2010 result on the element's exotic cousin — but gives a smaller value than virtually every other experiment.

    05 October 2017

    Article tools

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    Axel Beyer

    Researchers shone lasers at hydrogen atoms in a vacuum chamber to pinpoint the size of the protons inside.

    The proton might truly be smaller than was thought. Experiments on an exotic form of hydrogen first found1 a puzzling discrepancy with the accepted size in 2010. Now, evidence from a German and Russian team points to a smaller value for the size of the proton with ordinary hydrogen, too.

    The results, which appeared on 5 October in Science2, could be the first step towards resolving a puzzle that has made physicists doubt their most precise measurements, and even their most cherished theories.

    Still, “before any resolution, this new value has to be confirmed”, says Jan Bernauer, a physicist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge. If other labs confirm it, he adds, “then we can find why the old experiments were wrong, hopefully”.

    • For decades, physicists have estimated the size of the proton using one of two main techniques. Atomic physicists use spectroscopy to measure the energy levels of electrons orbiting an atomic nucleus — consisting of either the single proton in a hydrogen atom, or a bigger nucleus. The size of the nucleus affects those energies because electrons spend some time moving through the nucleus as they orbit it.

    Meanwhile, nuclear physicists have used a similar technique to the one that enabled Ernest Rutherford to discover atomic nuclei in the first place. They hit the atoms with beams of fast-moving electrons and measure how the electrons bounce off.

    As their precision improved, both methods roughly came to agree on a radius of about 0.8768 femtometres (millionths of a millionth of a millimetre).

    But in 2010, a novel kind of experiment completed at the Paul Scherrer Institute in Villigen, Switzerland, disrupted the consensus. After a decade of unsuccessful attempts, a multinational collaboration led by Randolf Pohl, then at the Max Planck Institute of Quantum Optics (MPQ) in Garching, Germany, measured energy transitions not in ordinary hydrogen, but in lab-made ‘muonic’ hydrogen. These are atoms in which the electron has been replaced by a muon — a particle similar to an electron in most of its properties, but 200 times more massive. The heavier particle spends more time inside the nucleus, which means that the proton’s size has a much larger effect on the muon’s energies — which, in turn, should lead to a much more precise estimate of the proton’s radius.

    Pohl’s team found the proton to be 4% smaller than the accepted value. Some researchers speculated that perhaps some previously unknown physics could make muons act differently than electrons. This would have required a revision of the standard model of particle physics, which predicts that muons and electrons should be identical in every way except for their masses — and might have pointed to the existence of yet-to-be-discovered elementary particles.

    Exciting technique

    In the latest paper2, Pohl, now at the Johannes Gutenberg University in Mainz, Germany, and his collaborators tickled hydrogen atoms — containing ordinary electrons — with two different lasers. The first one sent the atoms’ electrons into an excited state, and the second one put them into a higher-energy excitation. The team then detected the photons that the atoms released as their electrons fell back into lower-energy excitation states.

    The team combined its data with an earlier, high-precision measurement to calculate the Rydberg constant, which expresses the energy that it takes to rip the electron off the hydrogen atom. Standard theory then enabled the researchers to calculate the radius of the proton from this constant. The value they found was consistent with the muonic-hydrogen measurement, and 5% smaller than the 'official' proton radius.

    The basis of laser-stimulated LENR, electrons stimulated to act like muons? The first laser increasing electron spin/orbital velocity (excited state), the second into a higher orbital state?

  • -and this, more recently -

    APS News

    June 2018 (Volume 27, Number 6)

    How Big Is the Proton, Really?

    By Sophia Chen

    2018 APS April Meeting, Columbus, Ohio — In 2010, Randolf Pohl’s team measured the size of the proton with the highest precision yet. But the result befuddled them: the proton radius — or more specifically, how far its positive charge extends — came out to 0.84 fm, about 0.04 fm smaller than all prior measurements. The particle’s width seemed to have shrunk by 4 percent.

    “It caught everybody off-guard,” says David Newell, who chairs the Committee on Data for Science and Technology (CODATA), the international group which publishes the recommended values for fundamental physical constants every four years.

    To this day, physicists do not understand the source of this discrepancy. In a presentation at the April Meeting this year, Pohl, who works at the Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, discussed recent experiments for resolving the so-called proton radius puzzle.

    Obvious answer is: stimulation of electrons to act like muons to reduce proton size-(maybe the relativistic mass of the electron increases 100-fold (Lorentz factor) as the angular velocity increases to 0.995 light speed?) How the muon/excited electron does this is a mystery, could be something to do with the strong nuclear force being magnetic in nature. But again- electrons being stimulated/excited to act like muons, the first, original cold fusion ever reported in the fifties and predicted by A.Sakharov - could this be the underlying CF mechanism from F&P onwards?

  • And that's how AR's E-cat's work - muon-like electrons are generated in the plasma ball then in turn stimulate p fusion to D then T over several seconds ending up with He and gamma release. Of course a few background cosmic-ray generated muons should spark things off as well....maybe repeat the expt on the top of Mt Everest!

  • In 2010, Randolf Pohl’s team measured the size of the proton with the highest precision yet. But the result befuddled them: the proton radius — or more specifically, how far its positive charge extends — came out to 0.84 fm,

    The current accepted proton "charge radius" is 0.84087fm what is pretty close to the 3D/4D magnetic charge(moment) radius of 0.840869916! Thus I do to expect this value to change anymore.

    There is a discussion about a so called "proton magnetic radius" that represents the border of its magnetic flux. This radius is in the order of 0.83....fm. Here again one must choose. Either we look for a radius that allows to calculate the magnetic mass or one that limits the proton relativistic magnetic mass. The later is the one mentioned in the paper.

  • The event horizon theory is derived from examination of the meltdown of the LION reactors as recorded in MFMP videos as follows:

    You might not have seen the videos that contain the analysis that MFMP has made in the LION experiment. This info is both revealing and exciting in the extreme.

    It shows how wormholes and black holes work, It reveals how quarks are confined and the detailed nature of the strong force.


    the info at about 12:50 is most revealing of all. It shows how matter in quark disassembled form is stored inside a wormhole and how that quark soup is reorganized when the wormhole terminates into new elements that form as happened under the rules that were and still are in place when matter first evolved after the big bang.

    In this last video below, the micro diamond which carry LENR fuel particles that are embedded as inclusions in micro diamonds show how these fuel particles activate and begins to eat matter as they tunnel through the diamond. When the "miners" simultaneously deactivate, the liberated quarks contained inside the wormhole component of each miner is reconstituted and deposited as transmutation products and left at the far front end of the tunnels that each miner has excavated.

    There are three distinct epoch of transmutation during which all the miners are at work digging tunnels by eating diamond. When each epoch terminates, transmuted elements are deposited at the forward-most end of the tunnel with each of the transmutation products produced by the entire miner aggregation of each epoch being identical as produced by each individual miner.

  • "This is why Rossi is releasing a commercial product." He claimed to have done this quite some times in the past, didn't he?

    We should stick to the facts. The fact is at this point: Rossi says he will show an ECat SK in action, and has set up a website with a count down clock and a private video presentation, probably with his friend Fabiani (?) and Frank Acland somewhere. But he already made it clear that what we see is not the final installation at the secret customers facility, where the SK is installed in the existing heating system and replaces the former heat source at -20% $$...and is controlled remotely from his Condo in Miami... We will see a 27kW heater in action, and will be shown what the input and output power is (measured by Rossi)

    We may see probably another more advance DPS just to keep all of his followers happy. I would love to believe he found the holy gral and has a LENR product, but based on all his behavior, his silly information on certifications, his crazy business plan, and every single missing piece of real evidence (a factory, a lab, logistics in/out, supply chain, employees, team pictures, a sales and service team, local authorities awareness and no public traces on the internet of anybody related to this and somebody who has started a new world changing business...) I cannot admit this is for real.

    We know Rossi's description of another first commercial installation in "customers" plant at the Doral warehouse...so everybody should be careful with what we will see and what will happen after Jan 31...

  • For the last week or so I've been studying the topics of negative resistance, the plasmoids that form during negative resistances in plasma, and the double layers on the surfaces of these plasmoids. There is a HUGE amount of information to digest. I cannot claim to be anywhere near an expert, but I've been uncovering some very interesting nuggets of information that I think are relevant to the QX and potentially other exotic technologies. Instead of trying to write an essay, I'm going to list some of these bits of information -- please note this list is NOT in order of significance.

    1) For a negative resistance to happen in a plasma there must be a source of energy to power the phenomena.

    2) At the same time a negative resistance occurs in a plasma, a self organizing structure often referred to in mainstream literature is a "fireball" or "firerod" is produced.

    3) This fireball contains positive ions in the interior and a covering of electrons on the outer surface. This is what's called a "double layer" that segregates the contents of the fireball from the general plasma environment of the discharge tube.

    4) The double layer serves many purposes and is actively absorbing energy in the form of heat from the general plasma environment which is converted to current which powers the negative resistance.

    5) The fireball is continuously exchanging energy and matter with the general plasma environment. This can happen in multiple ways: one of which is the acceleration of ions and electrons. These accelerations can be sudden, and the electrical gradient of the double layer is involved.

    6) The fireball can produce oscillations in the plasma; hence, the "self generating discharge" of Chernetsky and the "self generating oscillations" discussed in many mainstream papers. During these oscillations thermal energy collected from the plasma is transformed into electrical current and sent through the tube to the external circuit.

    7) Various aspects of the fireball are dependent on the properties of the external circuit. If the external circuit is constructed properly and tuned, the oscillations can be enhanced via resonance effects.

    8) At higher pressure and farther distances between electrodes the frequency of the self generating oscillations can be lowered from the megahertz range to the kilohertz range. (An example of which is how Rossi's electrodes are far apart and he produces 100khz oscillations.)

    9) Argon and other noble gases are extremely useful in generating these oscillations.

    10) The double layer plasma effect is also involved in the atmosphere of our planet, accelerating electrons to high energies.

    All of the above are absolutely proven facts and can be found in mainstream literature. The remainder of this post is of a slightly more speculative nature.

    First, the double layer seems to be extremely important for inducing both LENR reactions and potentially extracting energy from the vacuum. One theory that has been proposed (credit goes to Axil) is that electrons from the double layer can interact with protons to produce neutrons which can be captured by other elements.

    Secondly, according to the work of Don Hotson (check out his articles about Dirac's Sea of Negative Energy in Infinite Energy magazine) the vacuum is not filled with simply virtual photons but absolutely real electron positron pairs. According to his theory, photons ARE electron positron pairs. Moray King's papers available on Rex Research and other sites explain how abrupt acceleration of charged particles (electrons and ions) can polarize the vacuum which pull electron positron pairs out of the sea of negative energy and into our observable space. This can add excess energy to a system (radiant energy) and/or positrons can then annihalate with electrons releasing just over 1MeV. If this is true, then the constantly oscillating fireball in the QX/SK could be accelerating electrons and ions which polarizes the vacuum. In which case, the device would not only be producing energy from nuclear reactions but also the zero point energy field.

    Regardless HOW the fireball (plasmoid or macro-scale EVO) is producing anomalous energy, it seems to be doing so in a wide range of devices that have been experimented with throughout this century. There are similar themes in the work of a long list of inventors including Nikola Tesla, Chernetsky, Correa, Thomas Henry Moray, Paul Brown (the resonant nuclear battery), and many others. In fact, I've found references to LENR researchers who claim the excess heat in their WET CELL ELECTROLYTIC Pd/D systems comes from a "double layer" that forms on the cathode. In their theory, the deuterium loaded cathode is filled with a layer of electrons just barely beneath the surface while a layer of positive lithium ions exist directly over the surface. Allegedly, the electrons interact with the deuterium atoms and produce neutrons which then induce nuclear reactions.

    If we want to learn how the QX works, I think we need to learn more about these double layers and how they can potentially induce LENR reactions and extract energy from the vacuum. The physics of what's happening will not only explain the energy produced in the QX but could help us understand how the vacuum is manipulated by other devices and vehicles such as the Fluxliner ARV.

  • Anyone here want to discuss these topics?

    There is one important factor that you have not yet incorporated into your thinking. That is, the electron is a fermion and does not stay together as an aggregation, since electons repel each other. They must be converted into bosons. This is done by entanglement with exitons, phonon. or plasmons.

    Now being a boson, the converted electron (aka polariton) can now form a Bose condensate. This allows the electron aggregation to have a long communal life.

    It is very hard to tell that this boson conversion is happening, but there are about a dozen indicators that this transformation occurs. One of these indicators is that the Rossi QX fireballs (tiny specks of light) seen floating in the plasma changes color (blue, yellow.red) in response to the power level that the QX is generating.

    Another indicator is the onset of lowered electrical resistance. this might indicate the onset of superconductivity. The EVO is most likely superconducting. The hole theory of superconductivity posits that a double layer forms where the core is positive and the electrons form a spic wave on the exterior of the core.

  • Director

    From what I was aware of so far, negative resistance usually implies (in a more readily understood form IMHO) that the larger the current applied to a circuit is, the lower its resistance gets, so if the power supply is a voltage source (i.e. tries to provide a constant voltage, which is what most common ones do), current keeps increasing in a positive feedback loop up to self-destruction of the weakest component if no limiting is present.

    Ordinary arc lamps / HID lamps operate in the negative resistance region of plasmas and because of this they need so-called ballasts to prevent such destructive condition. These can be as simple as a resistor or also comprise complex electronic circuitry.

    What I'm saying is that negative resistance alone doesn't seem to be that much of an unusual condition for controlled electrical arcs, so there must be something else involved. From my own point of view, if there is LENR somewhere, it must be in generally disregarded or avoided phenomena, so if anything perhaps it might be more interesting to provide all the current the arc wants until something fails, the failure point being in this case a variable under control.

  • 1) For a negative resistance to happen in a plasma there must be a source of energy to power the phenomena.

    As said many times before: Negative resistance means a counter current is canceling the current, what makes the current look like flowing at no resistance. Just use Ohms law and instead of writing -R write -I ... But I agree negative resistance sound much more interesting/fascinating...

    Why can it happen that the counter current is stronger than the current we measure?- what looks like negative resistance. The resistance in the plasma is not uniform, because the plasma usually adopts some structure. There is no energy source needed (Except the external one we provide to generate the plasma.).

  • Interesting thread which i don't take time fo follow closely.

    Therefore, beyong balls, negative resistance how people here considers the high temperature needed by QX ?

    I know above 2500° H monoatomic remains stable in duration, would that be the reason ?

    Does QX use Argon or neon both with LI+H ? Because in relation with their higher first ionization state , discharge current should be concentrated to LI+H.


  • I think he is referring to his latest E-Cat, so supposedly the SK. He apparently modulates power in a PWM fashion.

    * * * * *

    Joseph Fine January 12, 2019 at 10:58 AM

    Dear Andrea Rossi,

    In the past you have said the ‘temperature’ of the core of the E-Cat reaches 1 eV (or about 11,600 deg K).

    1) Is this an average temperature during normal operation, self-sustained operation or a maximum temperature that should not be exceeded?

    2) What is the initial temperature following normal startup (for example, ten minutes after you push the START button) ?

    3) Does core temperature reach 1 eV if the E-Cat produces only 10% of rated power, or is this temperature reached at 90-110% (??) of rated power?

    Happy and Healthy New Year,

    Joseph Fine

    Andrea Rossi January 12, 2019 at 2:00 PM

    Dr Joseph Fine:

    1- average/ssm operation

    2- 1 eV

    3- the modulation of the energy generated is made by on/off series, the temperature is always 1 eV

    Happy and Healthy New Year also to you,

    Warm Regards,


    * * * * *

    On a loosely related note, the electric arc in MIG welders is quoted to have temperatures up to 24000°C:


  • The QX plasma temperature is always exactly 11604K ("=1eV") according to Dottore Rossi....doesn't matter in which mode it runs.

    Edit: Maybe Rossi talks about his SK, not the QX...?

    As all Lenr phenomenoms turn around 1 Ev , Rossi doesn't seem to tell important things here. Basically, his plasma ( if plasma) seems common if you consider running temperature, in this case.

    You seems lost between SK or QX like me therefore to try to improve our understanding we should do a flash back up to Ecat Ht.

    Ecat Ht ( as Bt before) seems to use H monoatomic so i can not imagine that next Rossi's technologies are far away from this.

  • I am trying to build up an understanding of what's happening from as far down to the basics of reality as I can go. In my mind, that is Dirac's Sea of Negative Energy which is composed of electron positron pairs. Mainstream science tries to say the vacuum is only composed of virtual photons, but in reality photons ARE electron-positron pairs that are tightly orbiting each other.

    When it comes to electrons, I tend to think that under some conditions electrons can form condensates or at least get very close to each other. For example, Hal Puthoff has a paper on how this could be possible. Are you trying to say a single electron can be transformed into a single boson (having it's spin changed) by interacting with other electrons or atoms? You see, I don't really like the terms plasmons or phonons, because I don't think they are descriptive enough. A plasmon is simply a continual undulation of a group of electrons, and I don't understand the mechanism by which they become entangled with an electron to change it's spin. Whats doing the entanglement? What structure is reaching out and entangling the electron? Since I view the smallest possible structure to be electron positron pairs, are there lines of Don Hotson's EPOs grabbing a hold of the electron and changing its spin?

    Can you describe the exact structure in terms of the basic units of whatever you consider to be the vacuum and how this explains the hole theory of superconductivity? You see, I'm trying to understand more than just terms. I want to know what's going on.

    Could you also please explain how you think a double layer of electrons and positive ions induces LENR in more detail?

  • For the negative resistance to exist a plasmoid with a double layer must form. I think it's something about this double layer or something about the plasmoid that is allowing LENR. I think the key to producing LENR in plasma based systems is to try and keep the out of equilibrium condition going for as long as possible and see what happens. With the QX, I think Rossi is allowing the plasma ball to continue existing for several seconds. I also think he is feeding it the proper mixture of gases that allow it to form and be more stable. My understanding of spheromaks is that when you use multiple gases the different weights aid the stability of the plasmoid.

  • As said many times before: Negative resistance means a counter current is canceling the current, what makes the current look like flowing at no resistance. Just use Ohms law and instead of writing -R write -I ... But I agree negative resistance sound much more interesting/fascinating...

    Why can it happen that the counter current is stronger than the current we measure?- what looks like negative resistance. The resistance in the plasma is not uniform, because the plasma usually adopts some structure. There is no energy source needed (Except the external one we provide to generate the plasma.).

    I agree that a plasma only needs heat from the energy we supply to produce a negative resistance. From the papers I'm reading, the space charge structure that develops (the plasma ball) actually absorbs heat and transforms it into electrical current. So LENR Is not needed to have a negative resistance. However, I think the double layers or other properties of the fireball may actually allow for LENR reactions or extraction of zero point energy.