QX Concepts - A less critical Rossi thread.

  • I still think the E-cats are not the optimal structures for generating plasmas (or LENR) - their effective plasma volume is very small compared with eg the SAFIRE system. Further, once running the QX/SK are sealed so none of the reactant concentrations can be modified as the reactions proceed. Which is all because none of this E-cat enterprise has been worked out from any rational first-principles basis, it has rather evolved historically from gadgets that 'kinda' worked' over long periods of AR messing around in the lab. Why link together lots of E-cats QX or SK's together to produce a MW reactor when you could simply have one scaled up more efficient SAFIRE-type reactor do a much better job? I guess its all down to patent restrictions and continuing the E-cat branding that's been set up which will only ever make any sense to AR disciples. Just look at the double-layers generated by the plasmas in the SAFIRE videos-they're massive compared to the possible QX or SK plasmas.

  • About how vacuum energy is extracted. LENR does not extract particle pairs from the vacuum, it is all about photons in the QX and SK..

    I have been asking professional scientists how energy can be extracted from the vacuum and the best explanation I have received so far comes from Dr. Paul M. Sutter’s blog: ask a spaceman.

    My question:

    Highlighted comment

    Axil Axil

    A photon/anti-photon pair created by pair creation through quantum fluctuations at the event horizon of a black hole produces Hawking radiation when the photon escapes to the far field and the anti-photon is absorbed into the black hole. How does that anti-photon decrease the energy content of the black hole to evaporate it since to the best of my understanding the anti-photon has positive energy…but negative frequency? Furthermore a photon with negative frequency and one with positive frequency are identical. Is the issue that allows the anti-photon to annihilate positive energy in any way related to the stoppage of time at the event horizon? Otherwise, the black hole just gets more energetic over time from this influx of anti-photons.

    Dr Sutter’s responce:

    Paul M. Sutter replied: "Great question! I've discussed this before - just search my channel for hawking radiation!"

    After my search, here it goes


    Essentially, because the black hole traps virtual photons in a time event that stops time at the instant that the event horizon is formed, these trapped photons escape based on their position that they were at relative to the event horizon when that horizon first formed.

    The key concept about the Hawking radiation based energy productivity of an electromagnetic analog black hole is its lifetime. The shorter that this type of black hole lasts, the more vacuum energy that it can extract from the vacuum. The following insight comes from the explanation about the way Hawking radiation is produced and behaves that Dr. Sutter has explained in the reference above.

    Few people understand how hawking radiation actually works with regard to vacuum energy extraction. The most efficient black holes are the micro black holes with extremely short life times. Polariton condensates produce these analog EMF based black holes.

    This is very complicated and difficult stuff due to the complications that general relativity imposes on the event horizon. But according to Dr. Paul M. Sutter, all particle and photon based hawking radiation is predetermined at the instant of black hole creation. This is the result of time dilation at or near the event horizon.

    Like a scoop of ice cream with sprinkles on its surface, as the ice cream melts over time, the sprinkles are freed from the surface and move away from that surface. The time that this release happens is a function of the position of the sprinkles at or near the surface when the ice cream scoop first forms.

    This is why small black holes radiate with much more intensity than big ones do since time dilation is less intense at the time of small hole formation as compared to large hole formation.


    Believe it or not, the hutchison effect is a form of LENR that produces anti gravity on the surface of objects through the use of polarized RF. The polariton condensate has been shown to produce negative mass/energy.


    Physicists Say They've Created a Device That Generates 'Negative Mass'

    This effect is actually anti gravity produced by polaritons as they extract energy from the vacuum. . Polaritons are actually extremely short lived EMF analog black holes that extract energy from the vacuum through hawking radiation.

    The Hutchison Effect, levitation

    Preview YouTube video The Hutchison Effect, levitation

    The Hutchison Effect, levitation

    The polariton just exists for a few pico-seconds. When the polariton forms in the dark mode, it surrounds an aggregation of vacuum perturbations: (aka virtual particle) and stores them for release based on a general relativity time distorted horizon that delays the release of those “photons” until the polariton decays. When the polariton decays, the time distortion goes away and the photons derived from the vacuum become real.

    The reason that the polariton can produce so much photon based vacuum energy is because it is so small and short lived. Two types of vacuum perturbed photons come from the vacuum, the positive energy photons that are low frequency heat guys, and negative energy ones that have a negative frequency whose energy level is in the ultraviolet energy range. The polariton condensate holds onto the negative gravity property of the negative photons that are being constantly created by the roiling soup of polaritons aggregation almost instantaneous birth and deaths within the Bose condensate were each member of the aggregation lives and dies in pico-seconds, and the positive photons that are released to the far field as heat. The storage of negative energy inside the condensate results in its experimentally observed negative mass behavior.

    The bigger the polaritons get… meaning the polaritons store more negative energy, the longer they live but because of the polariton’s increase size(energy content) and longer lifetimes, they produce and release less vacuum energy…they essentially go to sleep. These sleeping polaritons wake up when they are pumped and new short lived polariton start the vacuum energy extraction cycle again.

    Dr Sutter laments that this Hacking radiation stuff is four levels of hard to understand. For the electromagnetic analog black hole, just double that level of hard. You can see that understanding LENR will take some considerable amount of time to become commonplace.


    The reference to double layers is key. Whenever there is a accumulation of free charge as in a double layer, a plasma mirror may form. This structure will produce an electromagnetic event horizon that will serve to extract photons from the vacuum via Hawking radiation. An entangled photons pair is produced by Hawking radiation with the positive energy partner having an energy level in the infrared, and the negative energy photon partner with negative frequency that resolves to an energy level in the ultraviolet.




    Now see where the laser light pulse comes from needed to accelerate the plasma mirror.


    The polariton is a structure that produces the laser like light pulse that serves to accelerate the plasma mirror.

  • Here's a suggestion that exciton or plasmon polaritons may act like muons from 2014 - is their any further evidence now? Maybe red-infra-red:) laser stimulation of LENR works this way....

    Re: Lockhhed claims fusion breakthrough

    Posted: Oct 27, 2014 2:41 pm
    by KitemanSA

    Kirk Sorensen wrote:
    Titanium48 wrote:^ The "amazing particle that somehow acts like a neutron and glues together hydrogen nuclei without being bothered by electric repulsion" was discovered shortly after the neutron. Unfortunately muon catalyzed fusion is also nowhere near energy breakeven.
    No, muons act like electrons.

    Muons make protons act more like neutrons. As it turns out, so might quasi-particles like exciton polaritons or surface plasmon polaritons.

  • Here's a suggestion that exciton or plasmon polaritons may act like muons from 2014 - is their any further evidence now? Maybe red-infra-red:) laser stimulation of LENR works this way....

    Re: Lockhhed claims fusion breakthrough

    Posted: Oct 27, 2014 2:41 pm
    by KitemanSA

    Muons make protons act more like neutrons. As it turns out, so might quasi-particles like exciton polaritons or surface plasmon polaritons.

    A polariton condensate has unique identifying behaviors. One that is amazing and telling is that it accumulates negative mass. The behavior that marks the presence of polariton condensation in LENR is the way that the black EVO floats over an irregular surface when the EMF absorption behavior sets in. This behavior was mentioned in Ken Shoulders' book.

    The other polariton condensation indicator that we have seen is how the EVO behaves in its "tackyon" mode. The EVO that was seen in the ash from the LION reactor shows a strange radiator that floats over a surface and punches holes in the sub-strait when its magnetic flux tube touches the surface. The production of a magnetic flux tube is also a definitive sign that the polariton condensate is at play in LENR. The Black EVO bounces over the surface of the ash like a rabbit due to the levitation generated by the negative energy produced as it extracts energy from the vacuum..


  • yes, one or two rabbit-like paw prints - we must use strategies to increase the density of these quasi-particles and extract more energy from the vacuum. How does the Higg's field fit into the negative mass accumulation since this is thought to confer mass onto all other particles? A negative Higg's field maybe.

  • Why link together lots of E-cats QX or SK's together to produce a MW reactor when you could simply have one scaled up more efficient SAFIRE-type reactor do a much better job?

    IMHO - Small is easier to do. Easier to contain and sink the heat/energy out of it and deliver somewhere else. Less (or lower) technological hurdles to jump over to develop something that works. Scaling up current heat generation reactors is probably not a high priority. Electricity and then jet engines first... The later may require scaling up.

  • yes, one or two rabbit-like paw prints - we must use strategies to increase the density of these quasi-particles and extract more energy from the vacuum. How does the Higg's field fit into the negative mass accumulation since this is thought to confer mass onto all other particles? A negative Higg's field maybe.


    A Unifying Theory of Dark Energy and Dark Matter: Negative Masses and Matter Creation within a Modified ΛCDM Framework

    There is a cosmological theory that the universe has an exactly balanced zero energy content and is balanced between positive energy/mass and negative/ energy/mass.

    The universe formed out of nothing


    A Universe from Nothing


    Zero-energy universe

    There is a problem that exists in cosmology called the flatness problem


    Flatness problem

    In order for the universe to remain flat, the proportions of both positive matter.energy and negative matter and energy must be precisely equal. If this is not the case, then the existence of life in the universe is not possible.


    Friedmann equations

    A flat euclidean universe can only exist in a zero energy universe. In order for the universe to stay flat and also to constantly expand, both positive energy/matter and negative energy/matter must be forming in a precisely balanced continuous process. This currently unrecognized process pumps out matter and energy as well as an equal amount of matching dark matter and dark energy in a continuous and on-going basis.

    There exists as an ongoing process in every star and inside every planet a process that produces polarized energy from the vacuum. This reaction is the source of polarized (Positive/negative) matter and energy throughout the universe. Because this reaction maintains an exact balance in the creation of this polarized energy, the flatness of the universe is exactly maintained.

    This reaction has been discovered and will be utilized in a commercial product that will be introduced on this upcoming January 31. A two hour live demo available on the internet will be held to mark the introduction of this commercial product.

  • The more I think about it, the more I feel it is at least possible the QX and the Suncell are utilizing very similar methods of producing massive output power. I've already written a lot in this thread about the QX, so now I'll list a few features of the Suncell.

    - The device utilizes argon, hydrogen, sometimes water, and molten metal as fuel and/or catalysts. (Compare this to the QX which most likely utilizes hydrogen (maybe enriched with deuterium), argon (most likely), lithium (a BLP catalyst), and nano particles of metal from cathode erosion (platinum, nickel, etc).

    - The device is pulsed through the negative resistance zone to a point just before the true positive resistance portion of the arc discharge so that the arc can be maintained at the lowest possible voltage. Doing this WILL produce a fireball or plasma with a double layer because such a double layer is ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED IN ALL SYSTEMS for a negative resistance to be produced. (Because the QX produces fireballs or plasma balls we can be pretty certain that it is operating in the negative resistance zone.)

    - The device produces a brilliant plasma ball. (The actual plasma of the QX is said to be extremely bright and plasma balls are present.)

    - The device mostly produces light output in the X-Ray to extreme ultraviolet spectrums. (We have evidence that Rossi was working on early QX devices called the Madam Curie that produces copious x-rays. He actually filed a patent with a title speaking about an x-ray transparent reactor for use in jet engines.)

    To bring this all together, BLP claims that the arc discharge is what maximizes the reaction rate of hydrino formation. Since they never go into the positive resistance zone and continually pulse in the negative resistance zone, the fireball produced must have something to do with their technology.

    I'm thinking it is possible that these two technologies utilize similar mechanisms. If so, there is currently a RACE ON to see who can successfully commercialize first.

    If the QX does indeed work like Rossi claims, then I think it is likely the superior technology because the structure is far simpler with fewer parts to go bad. However, due to Rossi's extreme secrecy, BLP could still win.

  • https://www.lenr-forum.com/att…erenko-shoulders-pdf-pdf/

    The above file discusses the usherenko effect in which a rapidly accelerated particle hitting a metal target ends up penetrating far deeper than it should according to accepted physics. The theory is that upon acceleration and deceleration (hitting the target) the vacuum is polarized and electron positron pairs are extracted. Somehow, they manipulate the structure of the metal. I think this same phenomena could be taking place in the QX. In a self oscillating plasma, ions are being accelerated and decelerated constantly as they impact each other. If this is happening over and over again, it seems like the energy extracted from the vacuum could be significant.

  • axil : Mills model very well explains cosmological expansion - much better than Einstein's. GR (ART). The main problem is that no model explains why the gravity constant should be a constant. The same holds for the speed of light, that can be defined as escape velocity of light from the universe with constant?? mass. Mills model explains some possible relations but...

    For me all these theories are nice phantasies and close to ferry tales for well educated people. Our live is just to short to understand the magic basis of the universe.

  • By the way, BLP had a LOT of activity before Christmas. Now, activity has slowed down to almost nothing. I have not seen a new article or video posted on their YouTube channel in weeks. I wonder if it has anything to do with Rossi's pre-recorded demo.

  • By the way, BLP had a LOT of activity before Christmas. Now, activity has slowed down to almost nothing. I have not seen a new article or video posted on their YouTube channel in weeks. I wonder if it has anything to do with Rossi's pre-recorded demo.

    I wondered about the silence also. They had that DOD visit...maybe that had something to do with it?

  • I don't think it was the DOD visit. After the DOD visit they continued to post videos. I am thinking it might be that they are waiting on the demo of the SK to decide what to do next.

    What I would do if I were them is to build a system that is purely plasma based with no liquid metal electrodes and no constant flow of hydrogen. They would be able to have something far superior in terms of complexity in short order. Even if they have to admit that nuclear reactions are taking place, they would be able to have a produce that could be mass produced extremely quickly.

  • I think that a QX or SK would be a fascinating device to play with. If you alter the gas pressure the frequency of the self sustaining oscillations would be altered. Additionally, if you reduce or increase the gap the frequency of the self sustaining oscillations would be altered. By adding a few percent of different gases you would be able to change the shape and frequency of the oscillations.

    I think it would be fun as all get out to build and test a QX. With an oscilloscope, you would be able to see the consequences of every little change you make. In a typical powder based system you might be able to monitor the input power with an oscilloscope, but you wouldn't be able to see what was going on inside the reactor with the traces. Just imagine being able to monitor how much excess power you are producing by being able to look at a screen in REAL TIME. You could adjust the frequency of your input and watch as the reactor goes into ion acoustic resonance.

  • I am finding more and more papers describing how sudden motions of ions or even small particles can polarize the vacuum. I am starting to wonder if there is a dual effect in which the same conditions that allow for the vacuum to be polarized also make LENR reactions more likely. If this is true, then it's possible that it would be hard to distinguish between energy produced by LENR and vacuum energy.

  • If the temperature is constant regardless of the output power i think that means he must also be varying the flow rate of the fluid being heated.

  • How would it be possible to control or change any flowrate in a little closed quartz cylinder, 30mm long and 1mm diameter at all? And imagine of having thousands of those little reactors to manage in a 40MW power plant. Wireless control? Operated remotely from an apartment in Miami (there is no new or other information on Leonardos manufacturing or company facility)...quite a challenge.

  • The new Brillouin hot tube now seems to operate on the power delivered by the Q-pulses alone, which suggests they've upped the voltage and frequency so are probably creating a plasma environment in the tubes for LENR to occur. Stiff competition for the QX or SK E-cats I'd say. Be nice to replicate their tech for a home central heating system!

  • Dr Richard

    AFAIK, Brillouin apply narrow pulsed square wave or DC to layers of metals alternated with dielectric materials. Not too much related with QX/SK or BLP other than the presence of a pulsed (on-off) signal.




    The cores consist of a metal substrate, which in some configurations includes a heater and thermocouple, with several spray-coated layers. Generally, these coatings alternate between a hydrogen-absorbing metal and an insulating ceramic. One example is shown in Figure 1. Other designs may have more or less layers. All of the layers are porous, allowing the gas(es) in the reactor chamber access to all coatings. There is a heater and thermocouple in the center of the core. The power to the heater is measured directly from the voltage and current supplied by the direct current (DC) power supply.



    The outer active layer is stimulated by sending pulses through the outer layer or layers and returning electrically through the innermost layer. The nature of the pulses is such that its current travels primarily on the surface of the metal in contact with the ceramic (the “skin effect”). This effect is caused by the very fast rise time of the pulses. An example of this pulse design, which Brillouin refers to as a “Q Pulse”, is shown in Figure 4. The pulse width is from ~80 – 1000ns with a duty cycle of less than 1%. This example shows a pair of pulses with alternating polarity, although same polarity pulse trains have also been used.

  • Does anyone have any thoughts about the mechanisms that make the QX work?

    Here is a quick list.

    1 - High manganese alloy nickel electrodes plated in platinum.

    2 - Some type of sharp protrusion on the tip. Artificial hollow cathode for "pseudospark" production or a sharp tip produced after a series of discharges at high current.

    3 - Reactor fueled with combination of noble gas mixture (mostly argon with perhaps traces of neon or others), hydrogen or perhaps extra deuterium (deuterium may increase thermal output at cost of more radiation), lithium, and nano-particles from electrodes.

    4 - At near atmospheric pressure and a decent gap between electrodes (to allow self sustaining oscillations to be in kilohertz range instead of megahertz range), the device is pulsed with a high voltage and current with a fast rise time. This produces a macro-scale plasmoid as the negative resistance zone is passed through.

    5 - Multiple things happen at nearly the same time. First, the atomic hydrogen interacting with the BLP like catalytic mix produces a resonant transfer plasma which can sustain for a longer period of time without input power than an ordinary plasma (seconds instead of milliseconds). Second, the plasma ball moves off the cathode and travels to the zone of weakest magnetic field at a position between the two electrodes (permanent magnets behind electrodes far from the hottest zone in the reactor are producing a magnetic mirror effect). Third, self generating oscillations start in the plasma due to the plasma ball absorbing heat and transforming it to electrical current.

    6 - The control box switches to providing additional stimulating pulses perhaps at the resonant frequency of the plasma oscillations. However, due to the resonant transfer plasma effect and LENR reactions, the plasma continues to exist with only a small input power.

    7 - The anomalous electrical current that is not thermalized in the reactor goes into the power supply. This is the reason for the cooling system.

    There may be aspects of the system that I'm overlooking. If you think I am overlooking any, please speak up. I'm trying hard to conceptualize how the system works.

    Here are a few thoughts about unknown areas:

    a) What kind of radiation is emitted? I think this could depend upon the fuel used.

    b) BLP produces mostly x-rays and EUV light. Since these two systems are so similar, I would think that the QX produces the same type of output.

    c) The material that Rossi uses for the transparent tube is supposed to be a custom material. What optically transparent materials would block most soft x-rays?

    d) Could Rossi be operating the QX in a mode that limits nuclear reactions and instead is extracting electron positron pairs from the vacuum to produce energy?

    So what are all of your thoughts?

    I wish we could get some serious and focused discussion started.

  • TheFutureIsNow
    January 15, 2019 at 8:48 PM

    Dear Andrea,

    Please review this paper.


    Basically, it provides an explanation for the light produced by sonoluminescence. According to this theory, the abrupt collapse of the bubble induces vacuum polarization of electron positron pairs that then emits radiation. I think that the sudden in surges and collisions in the SK could be extracting energy from the vacuum in this manner.

    The abrupt collapse of the bubble induces vacuum generation of photon pairs via hawking radiation. The blue light comes from the negative energy photon that has a negative frequency that corresponds to the frequency of the positive photon partner.

  • Director

    I deleted it due to needless detail and speculation and lack of proper sources on some paragraphs. I guess though that the following considerations are harmless and of general interest (not Rossi-specific).

    * * * * *

    a-b) If you're assuming that a BLP-like reaction occurs, initially mostly light, EUV and soft x-rays (as often mentioned by Randell Mills, e.g. here - a randomly picked paper from his published works) as the hydrogen atoms transition towards lower energy levels. These would have an energy of a few keV at most depending on the level into which they fall. Some people like Simon Brink have calculated the energy released by the transition of hydrogen from the ground state to the various sub-ground levels (for example see table halfway in this page).

    c) Any sufficiently thick (fractions of mm) transparent material would attenuate all of the x-rays produced by this step. Since they would have quite a low energy the difficult part would actually be detecting them under normal conditions. Check out attenuation distances with the tool available on http://henke.lbl.gov/optical_constants/atten2.html.

    d) It can be supposed that if the shrunken H atoms could be disposed of or somehow excited back to the ground level before they can accumulate and get triggered for a larger energy release, perhaps spontaneous nuclear reactions and other emissions caused by their short atom-atom distance/small size could be prevented. However for this to produce useful energy, the transition to lower levels must yield more energy than that required to go back to higher levels, but seen it this way this could be considered as getting energy from "nothing" and be unphysical.