Does LENR produce harmful radiations?

  • [Significant recombination never happens in an open cell.] This is the truism that the CF community holds onto for dear life.

    No, it is a fact that is easy observed using techniques that every electrochemist has know since Faraday's time. 19th century techniques are sufficient to measure recombination. (Obviously this must be true, because Faraday measured faradaic efficiency, which is to say the lack of recombination.) You measure the make-up water, and the gas using a bubbler and an inverted test tube. All electrochemists check for recombination. Fleischmann, Miles and others reported the exact amounts in their papers. The amounts are far too small to affect the conclusions.


    Furthermore, even if there were 100% recombination, the anomalous excess heat often far exceeds the heat that would be produced by this recombination.

  • No, ATER means 'at-the-electrode-recombination', which is below the waterline

    That never happens. It is easy to test for this, and many people have tested for it. There is never any significant recombination below the waterline with the geometry, materials and power levels used in cold fusion. * You could confirm this by doing some conventional electrochemistry yourself, but of course you never will.


    You could also insert x-ray film into a conventional electrochemical cell, and see for yourself that it never develops images of the anode of anything else. But, of course, you will never do this or any other test of your assertions. You could read the literature and see that such tests have been done, and they prove you are wrong. But, of course, you will never read the literature.




    * As Steve Jones demonstrated, it is easy to arrange other geometry, power levels and so on that do produce recombination. Any electrochemist can tell you how to do this.

  • Enough from me on xray film. I haven't found any of it compelling

    Oh yes, you do find it compelling! You have not given us a single valid reason to reject the x-ray film findings. If you had a valid reason, you would list it. Instead, you are flailing around writing impossible nonsense such as hydrogen damage can cause distinct sharp images to appear, or an anode is as hot as soldering iron and the x-ray film is touching it. These hypotheses are proof that you have no valid reasons to reject the claims. This is the closest you will ever come to admitting you are wrong.


    Along the same lines, THHuxley here keeps saying he is sure the boil off experiment are wrong, but he never gives a reason. He once claimed there is pure entrained water lost from the cell, but Fleischmann showed that does not happen. He will not address any of the 5 or 6 issues I gleaned from Fleischmann's papers. Obviously, he cannot address them, so he pretends they don't exist, and he airily declares as fact that the boil-off method does not work. This is how pathological skeptics roll. You can tell they have nothing when they refused to address any issue or answer any questions.

  • If it isn't in the form of radiation of some type, what is it supposed to be?


    Quite a bit of LENR heating maybe via the Induction heating of electrons via alternating magnetic flux... a bit like the heating on a copper pan on an induction cook top

    "

    This process, for its nuclear neighborhood, finally has the same characteristic (shaking electron cloud) as a

    fast thermal movement of a nucleus. Thus, after a critical distance, we see induction heating by strong

    nuclear fields. In adjacent nuclei the amplitude of the induced thermal movement is tiny because of the high

    frequency. The turning point is the distance where the magnitude of the magnetic force and the coulomb

    force are close. K-electron will be the first that try to fallback into classic orbits what leads to turbulent

    movements and finally thermal oscillation of the coulomb-cloud.

    J.Wyttenbach


    https://www.researchgate.net/p…r-and-particle-physics-20

  • Ed Lewis emailed me this letter, and suggested I put it into the forum. Since this is a plasmoid-related thread, I decided to put it in here.


    Letter to Plasmoid Researchers


    December 16, 2018



    I wanted to warn people in general and especially people working directly on electrical discharge equipment such as the SAFIRE experiment, independent researchers such as Jacob Gable, and people doing experiments to determine the cause of what you call "strange traces." You might be producing lots and lots of micro plasmoids and not know it, and these probably could be detrimental to your health.

    For example, I think that the video produced by the SAFIRE project shows pictures of microplasmoid markings and that the video actually shows photographs of them flying around. They looked sort of like comet streaks.


    Russian researchers working with mice have shown they affect mice health. Ken Shoulders studied these for maybe two or three years experimentally spending lots of time with the equipment, and he died of cancer. Winston Bostick, the main pioneer in this field of microplasmoids, also died of cancer at the age of 74. It might be telling if other researchers such as Takaaki Matsumoto also died of cancer.



    The people working on the cavitation transmutation project about 10 years ago got heavy radiation poisoning and required hospitalization. Please monitor for radiation. Microplasmoids and patches of material in a plasmoid state will emit beams of x-rays and particles, but microplasmoids can also themselves penetrate human bodies and cause effects.



    Even if you are using shielding on your equipment that will block regular radiation, these plasmoids in a dark state can penetrate through the shielding and then change state to cause effects outside the apparatus. They can enter into human bodies (it happened to me when I was 5) and then change state causing electrical shocks, transmutation, cell damage and etc.



    I suggest that if you are working with equipment that produces electrical discharges or that can cause material to change to the plasmoid state in other ways, try to detect for both these microplasmoids and regular radiation such as X-rays and take precautions. Put up shielding against microplasmoids and maybe stay a distance from the equipment during operation.



    The problem is that materials that have changed to a plasmoid state may remain in that state for a long time, even when the equipment is no longer operating. For example, the sand that Jacob Gable is using to do the discharge in will also itself emit microplasmoids long after he stops a discharge. I am guessing. This is because materials that themselves emit microplasmoids or are affected by microplasmoids sometimes stay that way for a long time before they revert to a normal atomic state.



    Even electrodes or surfaces processed by electrical sputtering equipment may retain residual atoms remaining in the plasmoid state and continue to emit radiation and microplasmoids. Urutskoev showed this long ago when he detected that elements of his apparatus after an experiment is ended continued to emit the "strange traces" producing plasmoids.



    The danger is real enough that people should take precautions. In general, I think all experiments producing anomalous energy and transmutation are due to the plasmoid state of matter. People should be aware of the possible health effects. Here are links to two past articles for you to review about this topic.



    Research Article Tracks of Ball Lightning in Apparatus? J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci. 2 (2009) 13–32 https://www.iscmns.org/CMNS/JCMNS-Vol2.pdf


    The Ball Lightning State In Cold Fusion in Tenth International Conference on Cold Fusion, 2003. https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LewisEtheballlig.pdf




    Edward Lewis

  • Leif Holmlid added something on the topic of this thread in his latest paper (although he doesn't consider his work to be LENR he writes that the processes he observes are similar to those observed in the field):


    http://doi.org/10.1080/15361055.2018.1546090


    Quote

    IV.D. Radiation Damage on Biological Systems from the Muon Source


    From the collected evidence discussed above and in previous studies, we argue that the particles emitted into the laboratory environment by the muon source are not mainly charged kaons which would give dangerous, maybe even lethal radiation levels to the personnel in the laboratory. The radiation in our laboratory has been checked by hand-held G-M counters (mainly Mirion RDS-80) close to the muon source, and no dangerous radiation levels have been observed. Of course, the G-M device response is limited to one count per laser shot so the real intensity may be higher. The sensitivity of this type of device is otherwise high enough to easily observe random radioactive decay in antireflective coatings on optical parts like lenses and windows. Instead of charged kaons, mainly neutral kaons seem to pass out into the laboratory, and the interaction of such particles with matter is believed to give considerably lower radiation levels, maybe mainly due to their longer decay times which allow them to move further before decay, thus depositing much of their energy in the building walls and in the laboratory equipment. They will also have a smaller direct Coulomb interaction with atoms in materials. Further, more energy is given off by gamma radiation from neutral kaon and pion decay, also distributing the radiation energy over a larger volume of materials. Certainly, more radiation research is required to give secure conclusions on this point.


    Another important factor is that the muon-matter and kaon-matter interactions are not well known. We have observed and studied a dominating pair-production interaction mechanism which is not yet understood completely (paper submitted) and which is not included in the radiation generating mechanisms normally considered for muons, pions, and kaons. First experimental results are published in Refs. 32, 33, and 43.

  • BG interprets, explains, and expands on Alexander Shishkin's 2018 Sochi presentation. Good background information from the beginning, but if you want to get to the part about penetrating radiations, start at 20:10.


  • Good background information from the beginning, but if you want to get to the part about penetrating radiations, start at 20:10.


    At about 5:15 this reference to a 1996 Fleischmann interview by Infinite Energy could be relevant as well, hinting at X-rays that might not be conventional X-rays - in either case some sort of emission that can leak away from the typical cell, whose lack of thermalization (so to speak) could account for the lack of excess heat in some cases and "strange radiation" observation in others.


  • At about 5:15 this reference to a 1996 Fleischmann interview by Infinite Energy could be relevant as well, hinting at X-rays that might not be conventional X-rays - in either case some sort of emission that can leak away from the typical cell, whose lack of thermalization (so to speak) could account for the lack of excess heat in some cases and "strange radiation" observation in others.

    Thanks for the reference to that 1996 interview, Fleischmann had it pretty much spot on, the readily observable rays leaving good cold fusion are most commonly found in the domain of hard x-rays but they are clearly not said 'hard' x-rays. They are more akin to 'soft' gamma rays.;) In any case they represent not a primary signature of cold fusion but rather are clear evidence of one of the many rare side reactions. Therein lies new speciation opportunities for taxonomists and new opportunities to understanding the complexity of this atom-ecology.

  • from the 1996 interview


    F." I think, really, that a correct understanding of condensed matter physics in general, and electrolyte solutions in particular, is a pre-requisite for taking our next steps in chemistry and biology. "


    Maybe a correct understanding of biology (ecology) , is a pre-requisite for taking our next steps in LENR

  • Ed Lewis has sent me an update of his article on the dangers of plasmoid radiation, which I am posting here as a pdf at his request. It seems that this thread is an appropriate place.


    Ed Lewis update.pdf


    Ed,


    Good to see you want to directly participate again, but are having trouble when trying to post something. Barty, or can may be able to help you if needed. Anyways, here is what you said:


    "I am sending this article to Alan to be posted on the LENR Forum because when I try to log into the

    platform, my computer malfunctions. When I tried to copy and paste into email the link to my most

    recent version of this that he put up on the thread about two days ago, the computer malfunctioned

    again.



  • Message from Alexander Parkhomove of general interest posted here with his permission



    Hi !


    We attach great importance to the study of "strange radiation" (microplasmoids) in view of the possible harmful effects on organisms. We have a special research program. In addition to us, in Russia the effects caused by strange radiation are investigated in Dubna.


    Sources of strange radiation in our researches are nickel-hydrogen reactors, similar to those of Rossi, and electric plasma in water.


    For microplasmoids registration, we use not only photographic film, but also mica, glass, and plastic, which have a smooth surface. We observe and count tracks formed on the surface.


    We found that the tracks are formed at a distance of no more than 30 cm from the reactors.


    We found that with the same operating mode of the reactors, the number of formed tracks is very variable, both in time and in space.


    Tracks are appearing near the reactor and when the reactor is turned off after its working.


    There is a “natural background” of strange radiation: tracks are formed with low intensity at a great distance from the reactors.


    I think that if you do not come into close contact with the reactors, their radiation does not pose a great danger. I have been working with powerful devices for many years and regularly examined by doctors. There are no critical changes in my body, except for the ailments characteristic of older age (I am 74 years old).


    I recommend two articles (unfortunately, only in Russian)


    http://www.unconv-science.org/pdf/21/zhigalov1.pdf


    http://www.trinitas.ru/rus/doc/0231/004a/02311041.htm

  • Thanks for that Max - actually I think the 'thermal waves' are actually magnetic - inductive coupling at a distance. Maybe?

    My layman take is that all EM filelds are just a form of a disturbance in the medium.surroumding everything. You can call this medium whatever you want.

    Black holes are 'tornadoes' in this medium. The eye of tornado doesn't need to have huge mass to get lots of material o spinning around it. And yet scientists doesn't want to go beyond Wikipedia article about MM negative experiment results.

    Now, they will wave this digital rendering of invisible spectrum of BH in front of next generation of students claiming another proof.

  • Interesting to hear that a large russian nuclear research facility (Dubna) is investigating the strange radiation!

    Seems russia is now officially interested in these effects.


    Hopefully it's now just a matter of time other governments will pump this up.


    There have been some rumors that AP is working with the government now. This would be in line with that.