Rossi E-Cat SK Demo Discussion

  • Let's say the water was pressurized (even though the evidence suggests otherwise) and that there was no steam (again, despite the evidence). You still lose. COP still far above 1.


    Only eye witness account (evidence) of steam I know of is James Stokes, from the Florida State Health Department (Radiation). In his deposition, he also stated he was inside, within 1 foot of the plumbing, and described the environment as "warm".


    Is that possible?

  • The burden of proof in a civil case is PREPONDERANCE of evidence, and IH couldn't even meet that burden to prove Rossi's fraud.

    The evidence looks overwhelming to me. I think they did meet that burden. They decided to settle rather than going to trial for other reasons. As I said, to avoid the danger of idiots in the jury,


    Evidently you don't think they met that burden. So, you are the kind of person they feared might end up on the jury.



    Nothing more convincing would have come out.

    ***Then quit saying it is PROOF.

    I consider it poof. You don't. That's all there is to it.


  • The evidence looks overwhelming to me. I think they did meet that burden.

    ***They obviously didn't meet that burden because they decided to settle.



    They decided to settle rather than going to trial for other reasons.

    ***If the evidence were so overwhelming then those other reasons would be diminishingly small. Regardless, the definition of proof, the burden of proof , the whole concept of proof is that it goes to a judge or jury in the end. No such thing as '"overwhelming" when you don't take it to the final stage.


    As I said, to avoid the danger of idiots in the jury,

    ***Then , again, you need to stop using that word 'PROOF'.




    Evidently you don't think they met that burden.

    ***And neither do you, evidently.


    So, you are the kind of person they feared might end up on the jury.

    ***You keep saying that a high schooler could look at the evidence and it would be obvious that he's a fraud. Well, the jury is full of high schoolers. The judge certainly made it past high school and college, and she saw apparently not enough evidence of fraud to notify the criminal authorities. Basically, you're using words that are well defined in a way that is completely out of their range. Proof, especially legal proof, is well defined. You keep throwing it around as if everyone who doesn't use your hyperemotiated rendition is stupid. But the judge isn't stupid, and neither are the people who disagree with the Penon report.

  • @Para,


    Looks like I've been met with silence on the Doral issues, so I'll turn to your concern. In my opinion, I thought the Stockholm demo was a hilarious presentation. Not polished. Unprofessional. Silly. But achieved exactly what it set out to achieve: convey the message that orders were now being taken. So, now, after all these years, real businesses with large heat requirements can now put Rossi to the test in the marketplace. And if it works, there is no need for slick marketing. It won't take long for a business to know whether it works or not because they will be monitoring the electrical load used by the SKs, and can then do a simple calculation to either confirm or refute the claims. The more interesting question is how long it will take for one of the businesses to come forward with either positive or negative views. I don't know, and I don't know if anybody knows that, including Rossi.

  • IH Fanboy ,

    I suppose that you mean the presentation from Rossi’s condo, rather than Stockholm.


    Yes, I look forward to Rossi installing some heat installations. I expect it is getting to the end game.


    I don't know where the presentation was made, but I won't dispute your claim of where it was. Rossi is very secretive about the location of his activities (not surprisingly given the Frank Zs of the world), so wouldn't surprise me if he held the presentation at his personal residence.


    Agreed, the end game at least feels in reach. I just really don't have a sense though how long this phase lasts. Could be months, but more likely years.

  • I don't know where the presentation was made, but I won't dispute your claim of where it was. Rossi is very secretive about the location of his activities (not surprisingly given the Frank Zs of the world), so wouldn't surprise me if he held the presentation at his personal residence.


    Agreed, the end game at least feels in reach. I just really don't have a sense though how long this phase lasts. Could be months, but more likely years.

    I suspect that our interpretations of the end game are quite different.

  • There are folks right on this thread who appear to have read the Penon report and have igh school level knowledge and do not "instantly see it was bogus " and disagree with you. The judge has high school level knowledge and obviously did not see blatant fraud or she would have reported it to authorities.


    It may be time to walk back this bit of argumentative hyperbole you have asserted.

  • I consider it poof. You don't. That's all there is to it.

    Well, that's certainly an interesting typo, almost Freudian.

    But retreating to a Humpty Dumpty definition is nonsense in the context of discussing a LEGAL case. We're compelled to use the LEGAL definitions which involve preponderance of evidence and reasonable doubt.


    That's all there is to it.

  • Krivit is one of the least reliable and most biased "experts" in this space.


    What would you describe as his bias? He was willing to give Rossi a fair shake.


    I got the impression he had a bias for the Widom-Larson theory and when Rossi started giving evidence that there was no empirical support for it, that's when things went south, and he started really focusing on the fraud angle.

  • real businesses with large heat requirements can now put Rossi to the test in the marketplace.

    Then why doesn't Rossi just buy a coal-fired electricity plant? He could buy coal, sell it at 2% discount out the back door, sell electricity at a slight discount and reduce emissions by 10-15%, setting up hero status with the environmentalists. Those customers have gotten real good at not looking under the hood.

  • I guess we should turn our attention to the magically appearing, invisible, silent and magically disappearing "heat exchanger".

    The magic heat exchanger would truly be a magnificence. You got that right. I don't remember this coming up in the court documents. Seems like that would have been pretty easy to show to any layman on the jury how important and ridiculous it is. And yet, there was this independent third party that both sides agreed to look into this technology demonstration as part of the contract.


    So this independent 3rd party issues a positive report, and then IH discovers that they're not gonna get the technology without Rossi (Fred Flinstone maneuver). So after being silent for a few months IIRC, then they start making noises AFTER the report has been issued by this guy they had agreed was the right person to look into it. Which, coincidentally, is the time they're supposed to pay up according to the next phase of the contract.


    Where were YOU during all this time, working directly for Industrial Heat? Why didn't YOU and IH notice that something as big as a barn was missing from the whole demo? It should have been obvious from the get-go, not a year later when your independent 3rd party issues a positive report. Instead of keying up on something so obvious, your your company has to go convoluted and out of its way to find some other party to issue a negative report to counter the positive report y'all had already paid for.


    By all means, let's see how vehement you are today about something that is so obvious and let's compare it to how obvious and important it was during the test and during the writing of the unbiased report so that the jury would have been properly exposed to. Yes, let's talk about that missing heat exchanger while we openly comment about how incredibly stupid someone must have been to miss it at the time.

  • A very useful admission - I guess KevMo missed the boiling goldfish bowl episode where Rossi's brain was located inside the container. After months of ignoring the black elephant in the room (Rossi's Doral Black Swan), the R'ster eventually realized that the heat studies were right and that he would have been dead in 1 hour inside of his magic factory. He had no choice but to conjure up the imaginary, mystical, silent and all powerful heat exchanger. Oh yeah......he would have needed the most incredible noise buffer / muffler in the history of Planet Rossi as well to quell the imaginary supersonic steam moving thru his system.


    Case closed. DQ for another further blather from KevMo.


    Can we get rid of this guy now?

  • I snipped out the 1 sentence that was worthy of comment on a thread of substance. That leaves the rest of your post to comment on because it sure looks like this is going to get shunted to the Clearance Items thread.


    First of all, because you lead off with an insult, followed by a second lame insult (thanks for the lameness, BTW), and then couch the entire paragraph in invective. Such comments are supposed to be shunted aside, but that is unfair if you happen to leave even one sentence of substance. 1 sentence. 1 sentence out of an entire paragraph.


    Why do you guys lead off with insults? And then after someone answers insult for insult y'all whine over on the Clearance Items thread? What a bunch of losers. To draw from the analogy introduced as Fight Club, you're the jerks who start losing fights so you bring knives into the ring. You deserve nothing but scorn.


    And then second of all for the latter half of the paragraph you throw in everything but the kitchen sink. You're throwing spaghetti on the wall to see if it sticks. What you don't realize is that your spaghetti is disgusting so even if it does stick, no one really wants to eat it.


    Third of all, your accusation of "lie bombing" needs to be countered in kind and it's time'to just directly call you a liar.

  • A very useful admission -

    ***And also very useful to show where you are coming from. So once again I have commented on the part of your post that managed to include some substance, and now I'm commenting on the part that is useless to further substantial discussion. If the moderators are interested in discussion on the substance, they would move your blathering insults over to the Clearance Items thread, and leave behind the substantive portions. You're silent about how YOU missed it but you go out of your way to comment about others missing it. You were THERE. You had FAR more opportunity to catch this glaringly obvious issue than those of us commenting from outside. That makes your incompetence even more glaringly obvious.



    Case closed. DQ

    ***What is DQ?




    for another further blather from KevMo.

    ***Yet again, you throw out an insult, polluting the thread. You can't just put out straight forward substance, you have to throw in your digs. And then your minions complain about how the thread gets polluted with insults. It starts with YOU.






    Can we get rid of this guy now?

    ***Why? Because I trade insult for insult? Why not just stop throwing insults, then? And why get rid of a guy who just agreed with you on what you call an important item? Oh, I know why, because it just so happens that on this important item it makes you in particular look INCREDIBLY stupid. Now I can see why you would want to get rid of someone for that reason.