Rossi E-Cat SK Demo Discussion

  • StephenC ,

    The StellarNet line includes spectrometers with deep (vacuum) UV capability, all using fibre optic probes. Almost certainly the fibre optics material gets more expensive with broader wavelength range capabilities, and the grating/diffraction system inside becomes more complex as greater resolution and broader bands of light are required to be processed.

    The Bluewave is the next model up from the GreenWave, and goes to 200 nm standard.

  • Thanks Paradigmnoia . That’s interesting info. Good to learn something new.


    Could it also stand high temperatures near the core? Andrea Rossi confirmed on JONP to me that it it was through a “window” though for thermal and saturation reasons. But I can see the fiber could be lined up with that window. I wonder if the window was a physical one or just s hole and how big it would have to be. Assuming it was taken at 10 cm from the device it would still be equivalent power of 20W per sq cm. Sun light at the earths surface for comparison is about 0.1 W per sq cm I think.

  • So, you are saying it isn't like Perry Mason or "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo." I am disenchanted.

    Well, not at all like Perry Mason, Law and Order, etc. The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (at least the novell and the original film) are not set in the US (I forget which Scandinavian country) and I suspect that country is a civil code system and not a system such as ours. All I really know about those legal systems are that they are vastly different than ours.

  • It would generate the same bifurcation of possibilities that happened when Dr. Hagelstein hooked up his PHUSOR device to a Stirling Cycle Motor over several months. Basically, the criticism was that since it was impossible, he must be a crook.


    https://e-catworld.com/2014/02…at-mit-the-nanor-emerges/



    OK, so at worst this device is a small electric heater. Why on earth should anyone other than ECW guys (who have some weird ideas) say it is impossible to power a Stirling cycle from such?

  • OK, so at worst this device is a small electric heater. Why on earth should anyone other than ECW guys (who have some weird ideas) say it is impossible to power a Stirling cycle from such?

    ***An excellent question. Perhaps you could extend that question to the detractors of Dr. (Swartz). Because that is exactly what they said. So.... when he DID power a Stirling cycle engine from his Phusor/Nanor precursor, the detractors then downshifted into claiming that he's a fraud... Are you claiming that Dr. (Swartz) is a fraud?

  • Dr. Hagelstein hooked up his PHUSOR device to a Stirling Cycle Motor over several months.


    Mitchell Swartz has a Phusor device, not Hagelstein. I don't recall that Swartz tried it with a Stirling engine. I don't think he could have, because the output has been very small, at the milliwatt level. Perhaps he had a larger device I am not aware of.

  • Mitchell Swartz has a Phusor device, not Hagelstein. I don't recall that Swartz tried it with a Stirling engine. I don't think he could have, because the output has been very small, at the milliwatt level. Perhaps he had a larger device I am not aware of.

    Okay, it was Swarz.

    The article talks about his Stirling Cycle Motor demo. There was a video of it , which after a few minutes is about as interesting as watching paint dry... That is, until you realize you're watching the impossible, so it must be a magic trick.

  • Been on holiday so catching up.

    Just to knock over the silly theory that IH screwed over Woodford and tried to screw over Rossi.


    Well the facts are:-

    Fact 1. History; Rossi walked away with $11m and IH got NOTHING from Rossi.

    Conclusion; A con is where the conman walks away with the money and the mark ends up with nothing. You might argue that the mark deserved it, or not, but what happened basically is very clear.


    But, but but - maybe IH were really trying to con the money out of Woodford all along and just using Rossi?


    Fact 2. Current; After the Rossi debacle concluded and Rossi vanished Woodford INCREASED their investment in IH.

    Conclusion; This convincingly demonstrates that Woodford's investment was not just about (or even mainly about) Rossi and shows that Woodford are clearly still happy with their investment relationship with IH.

  • Fact 1. History Rossi walked away with $11m and IH got NOTHING from Rossi.

    ***Okay, fact 1 acknowledged, for the most part. There is still the allegation that IH stole some of Rossi's IP and started transferring it to other LENR competitors they wanted to work with, but that is not a FACT, it is an allegation.


    Conclusion

    ***Conclusion is wrong.




    A con is

    ***Here you try to define the terms according to your own conclusion. The Chinese expression is "he who defines the terms wins the argument". So I'm not gonna let you define the terms. Here's an example of how it would be done from the reverse side: A con is when the con artist doesn't leave ANY money on the table, so ... since Rossi left $89M still on the table it was not a con. See how that works?


    where the conman walks away with the money

    ***Rossi did not walk away with the $89M. He spent some of his own money on the demo, he spent a lot of time at the demo site, he spent money on lawyers' fees when he shoulda walked away if all he was after was the $11M. He probably spent about $3-$4M, hard to pin it down. So for arguments' sake let's say he "walked away" with $8M and left $89M on the table. That makes Rossi an inept con man. He bamboozled Focardi, Celani, Levi, the Swedes, etc. all before he supposedly conned Industrial Heat out of $8M. That sure is a long, drawn out con for $8M and look at how intricate his con must have been. We're not dealing with a stupid man here, but rather an extremely wily con artist if that's what he is. So why is it that a wily con artist left $89M on the table? Was it because the brilliant people at Industrial Heat (who overlooked the lack of a heat exchanger for a year) were onto his con? If so, then why did IH ask for his worthless IP?


    and the mark ends up with nothing.

    ***The end of your loaded definition, and at this point of the phrase it seems true that the mark ended up with nothing unless the allegation that they stole IP is true.



    You might argue that the mark deserved it,

    ***DESERVED to get conned? Who would argue that? Why?



    or not, but what happened basically is very clear.

    ***Not really so clear, after your loaded definition and conclusion are dismantled.




    But, but but - maybe IH were really trying to con the money out of Woodford all along

    ***Is that the allegation? I hadn't seen it. That would make them even more feckless but since it doesn't appear to be furthering LENR one way or the other, it appears to be irrelevant to LENR discussions.


    and just using Rossi?

    ***My argument is that Rossi used a Fred Flintstone strategy. It fits the facts on the ground.




    Fact 2. Current After the Rossi debacle concluded and Rossi vanished Woodford INCREASED their investment in IH.

    ***Well, it looks like your fact is being questioned but whatevs.


    Conclusion This convincingly

    ***I doubt that.


    demonstrates that Woodford's investment was not just about (or even mainly about) Rossi

    ***How did it convincingly do that? If so, then you're talking about non-LENR stuff on a LENR discussion site, so it's kinda immaterial to the discussion at hand.


    and shows that Woodford are clearly still happy with their investment relationship with IH.

    ***It was actually a good investment. Someone here posted that they invested in Woodward as soon as they found out about them and over the last year or so they gained 19%. Good on them. But why all this discussion of Woodford, it doesn't look like that was the big topic at the forefront...

  • The article in the post he was respondin to


    https://e-catworld.com/2014/02…at-mit-the-nanor-emerges/


    Thanks. It does indeed say:


    "He showed an early experiment of a Phusor (name before NANOR) running a Stirling engine (an engine that runs from heat rather than chemical fuel)."


    I wonder what the power level was, and the (so-called!) COP. Arata once ran a thermoelectric device with one of his cells, but I did not find it convincing.

  • IIRC, he was claiming "impossible" COPs of up to 80 (peak). But the average was probably more like 8-10.

  • Arata once ran a thermoelectric device with one of his cells, but I did not find it convincing.

    ***Is it possible that whatever tools are used to measure heat are disrupted by Strange Radiation or some other thing emitted by these LENR devices? So, a person walking into a room where 1MW of heat is supposedly being generated, he doesn't feel nearly that much heat. But his readings are showing all kinds of heat. That would explain why there is an opening for a wily con artist, why Arata's demo was unconvincing, and that this "pseudo-heat" generated can barely run a simple turbine convincingly.

  • ... do not know. But You make a good point about "turbine".


    I remember, Rossi talking about "...we need the Carnot cycle first...".


    I asked him on his trollpage, if they now achieved this... and I was deleted.


    Same was with the gas turbinge. I asked. My post was deleted.


    I think, this i....t is constantly j...g off while reading this forum.

  • https://woodfordfunds.com/word…bringing-you-up-to-speed/

    Shane; Good point.


    The page certainly is reporting about the valuation increasing and additional investors but then says "has decided to increase the value of the Industrial Heat holding by 357%".

    Reading again in context it could indeed just mean the valuation of what Woodford already holds.


    So that does indeed weaken the point. But it does still look as if Woodford are happy with their investment, but maybe have not been involved in the additional investing.


    The IH shares are spread across several different categories across two funds. I will try to do some further digging to see if I can clarify.

  • OK, so at worst this device is a small electric heater. Why on earth should anyone other than ECW guys (who have some weird ideas) say it is impossible to power a Stirling cycle from such?

    ***An excellent question. Perhaps you could extend that question to the detractors of Dr. (Swartz). Because that is exactly what they said. So.... when he DID power a Stirling cycle engine from his Phusor/Nanor precursor, the detractors then downshifted into claiming that he's a fraud... Are you claiming that Dr. (Swartz) is a fraud?


    Link please. context is all.


  • Rossi gave IH what IH thought was convincing evidence his devices worked - their whole business plan was based on that. They paid $10M+ to get these devices.


    The devices did not work. But. measured in the Rossi approved manner, they did work (even dummy ones) because of a now known measurement error that generated false positive results.

    There is direct evidence (damning) from Court depositions and indirect evidence (Rossi now has control back over these devices, has done nothing with them, even stating that they will not be used.


    IH lost a lot of money.


    Most people would call that a con, unless Rossi himself was so careless as not to know himself whether his devices worked. Your choice.