Rossi E-Cat SK Demo Discussion

    Did you know or miss, that Rossi had to invent new alien materials back a few years to be able to operate his QX and SK reactors? He claims there are temperatures of always 1eV, which he calculates accordingly to 11604 K (which is in his world and math equal to 11876 Celsius :-))

    Unfortunately Rossi's QX presentation in late November 2017 has (in my opinion) been much more professional than his SK presentation yesterday.


    This is just my general impression, what I have got yesterday.

    With such a performance, he is not doing any good or making a positive contribution to the LENR field. Main stream science has now yet another

    opportunity to ignore LENR!


    I am completely disappointed!!


    However, I still hope that others are coming forward with more positive news.

    Director wrote:

    I know it would NOT provide any significant warmth for a room of 3000 square feet. Therefore, I will state that I think it is likely that a significant amount of excess heat is produced.


    So basically you're saying that you trust everything that Rossi says is true? <X


    Director wrote:

    Today is a day of decision for me.


    Looks like your decision was "carry on doing exactly the same as yesterday".


    (As predicted by nearly everyone)

    Could be that this has been posted by il dottore himself!! To justify the lousy performance and find excuses for this fiasco, to keep his followers happy and aqny customers secret.

    Look at the pronounciation and punctuation...one of his trademarks is a space at the end before the question and exclamation marks...like Celsius <-> Kelvin or Stockolm... :/

    Hi Paradigmnoia , whilst I agree there is a lot to be understood in that spectrum. I think the peak you chose in that plot for the comparison is at a wave length some way bellow the one used for his calculation which was at 357 nm I think? If I’m correct that peak corresponds to the much smaller broader feature to the right.


    It’s much more likely the peaks you noted are from emmision lines from the surface of the plasma or surrounding gas in the line of sight I think . Clearly it’s not from an optically thick region. I’m curious what they tell us though.


    I guess we also need to take in to account the absorption of the containing material.


    I’m very curious what you and Can come up with with that spectrum. There is a lot of structure there and it seems pretty dynamic.


    Are there any indicators of specific spectra lines such as for Helium 3 or 4, Lithium etc?.


    What could explain the two broader features that seem to Apear? Would this be two separate regions experiencing different scattering? Or is there absorption from the casing playing a role?


    Is it comparable to spectra from other plasma lamp assemblies etc?

    Director,


    If your hope for the future of our civilization lies in the hands of an Andrea Rossi invention, you should find a cave in the Rockies and sit it out, we’re doomed.

    Mu observation about typical behavior of the modern scientists is that that would be happy to accept the most oulandish ideas as long as they get along with their own.

    If there is something which contradicts their views they would be rejecting an deniying it to last moment regardless of how logical and credible they are.


    So far it seems that the greatest Rossi achievement would be a chapter or page on the web right after Tesla, Hutchinson, Shoulders etc . mentioning him as runner up for the holy Grail of energy who also succumbed to ... before delivering anything tangible.


    I have made my decision. I'm discounting that Rossi will ever bring this technology to the market. However, I still think the SK works, but I admit there is no proof.


    I don't trust everything that Rossi says, but I do trust him that the device heated the room as he claims. I would not expect anyone else to do so.


    What do you want me to say?


    Is Rossi an inventor who is obsessed with achieving a monopoly while keeping his IP completely secretive? Yes.


    Is Rossi an embarassment to the LENR community? Yes.


    Is Rossi probably going to continue mucking around until he passes away from whatever has made him so sick and takes the technology to his grave? Yes.


    But I still think the technology is real.


    I still think it should be replicated.

    interested observer wrote:

    Note that Director, who desperately wants to have endless discussions about things on his terms, completely ignores direct questions about what he actually saw in the Rossi charade and continues with his imaginary world diatribes. Figures.

    Like I really care what any of you naysayers on here think? To me, you are all a complete waste of time.


    I'm only responding to be fair to the readers who are not pseudo-skeptics.

    I'm convinced that Russ George's technology is going to sink into the black world. That's just me. I have no proof.


    I am also not convinced that Brillouin will ever produce anything practical. They have been at it for years and years and instead of trying to figure out new methods of producing high COP, they simply keep pushing to improve the COP of their very weak system.

    Director - the biggest question mark still is: you can only replicate if you know the recipe and what somebody did or found out earlier. Either your replication shows a similar EH or you find out that the gadget didn't work as claimed. I prefer to believe (still) in the latter option...

    “I don't trust everything that Rossi says, but I do trust him that the device heated the room as he claims. I would not expect anyone else to do so.”


    And you disparage “pathological skeptics”. The irony is truly delicious.


    And why do you think we are doomed if the SK is not replicated? You believe that every other crackpot energy scam is real. Why can’t one of the others save humanity?

    StephenC wrote:

    I’m very curious what you and Can come up with with that spectrum. There is a lot of structure there and it seems pretty dynamic.


    Sorry, I have no idea. It could be filtered or tampered with in some non-obvious way similarly to how the oscilloscope is for the most part showing noise. Rossi claims in his latest paper (section 4) that a peak at about 437 nm might be an indication of the existence of picometer-sized hydrogen (not deuterium) aggregates, i.e. Holmlid's ultra-dense hydrogen, and that the line is strongly reduced when deuterium is used.


    I tried merging together the peaks of several manually randomly picked spectrum screengrabs from the video (method="darken"). It should be possible to do some sort of averaging with similar techniques, but I haven't put much effort into this yet. Perhaps this composite image or the resultant from showing the average could show something different for those with more knowledge in the subject on plasma emission lines.



    Director wrote:

    3) I think that it would be seen immediately if the unit was only producing 380 watts of heat (the input). I have a very small bedroom and a heater of 1000 watts when the weather is about 32F outside is only marginally adequate. I know it would NOT provide any significant warmth for a room of 3000 square feet. Therefore, I will state that I think it is likely that a significant amount of excess heat is produced.


    How do you know there is not another heater?!? All buildings in the U.S. and Europe must have certified, modern heating equipment installed. You cannot tell from a video whether the central heating is on.


    (I am having difficulties with those requirements because I have a house with no modern heating equipment, and it cannot be insured or certified for occupancy.)

    Director wrote:

    What do you want me to say?


    I don't want you to say anything in particular, but thanks for replying - I'm just interested in other people's thought processes, especially when they seem completely at odds with my own.


    I'm also interested in how people ascribe certainty to their theories/beliefs - for instance, I notice you rarely 'hedge your bets', and only occasionally offer a token (IMO) 'IMO', usually following someone pointing out the disconnect between the evidence at hand, and your take on it.

    Each to their own, of course, but when you start shouting about things in public, you can't expect the public to lap things up unquestioningly. Well, most of us, anyway...

    You are probably right that AR has a working SK, its just that he can't just can't tell the truth about its COP, its obviously exaggerated. If you look at all LENR research to date a COP of 2 seems to be the top average possible - maybe this is the scientific/objective limit possible with any of the NiH/ PdD/ electrolytic or plasma - based systems? That's the overall emerging picture of all LENR research (ICCF-21 and all other REALISTIC studies to date) and I don't see why we can't be happy with that. Which by logical extension of ALL this SCIENTIFIC work AR probably achieves a heat output of 760 W if he inputs just 380 W, or an output of 25 KW if he inputs 12.5 kW. But he's just not happy with that so he 'cooks the data' to make up a COP of 57 which I think is just totally unnecessary. If we replicate either the SK or QX as Director suggests I'm pretty sure we'll only ever find a COP around 2 in line with all the other experimental evidence - which is fine - it solves the energy crisis by halving everyone's heating costs until a better solution (maybe Holmlid's muon generator or a breakthrough in proton-boron/ICF/or dare I say it hot fusion) is found.

    I am confused at how a "peak" in the spectrum of a non blackbody thing can be used to calculate its thermal output.


    For example, take two LED's one red and one UV and a simple resister that just warms up and run them with 1W of power each. If you use the ideas Rossi uses, won't you calculate entire different thermal outputs if you based it on spectrum peak alone". You could only use the spectra from a flat black resister to calculate the thermal output anywhere near correctly.


    My 60W incandescent bulb's tungsten melts at about 3400C but its color temp is 6500K. What is its thermal output?


    If you want your "ballerina" to look hot just put a 370 UV led at the base or tint the glass.


    The whole thing seems bogus to me.

    Dr Richard wrote:

    If you look at all LENR research to date a COP of 2 seems to be the top average possible


    That is incorrect. Many systems have run with no input power. The COP is infinite. Many others have run with higher COPs than this, and in all cases, the COP could easily be increased. For example, by putting the anode and cathode closer together.


    The "COP" has no meaning in cold fusion. It signifies nothing. At this stage in the research, it cannot be taken as an indication that the effect might become a useful source of energy, or that it cannot be made into a practical source.

    So let's replicate his precious SK and build a robot factory to knock them out and sell 'em to anyone who wants to save the planet by halving their heating bills........all the patents on this are a bunch of crap anyway (repitition, repitition, repitition) so nothing would stand up in court even if any of the patent-holders tried to sue. We need a more revolutionary attitude to boot this LENR technology into public use.

    barty wrote:

    On ECW they already know why the presentation was of such a bad quality (technically and contentual):



    ECW is like an exotic zoo. You can see all sorts of animals there including some recently thought extinct.


    I notice, though, that LENR Forum has its own exotica. One of them is performing right now promoting this idea that Rossi purposely made a dreadful presentation: see Atom-Ecology (post #1777)