Rossi E-Cat SK Demo Discussion

    I have a couple of basic questions about heating the alleged space. I ask it in all seriousness because I am neither an engineer nor a scientist. Here in California most houses have central heating, with one or more forced air units. The FAU is usually gas fired and then the warm air is circulated throughout the desired areas using a blower and ventilation tubes. This allows the warmer air to be distributed and output to spots throughout the desired area, thereby, as I understand it, allowing the warmer air to mix more easily with the existing air (while the colder air, which is heavier and thus lower to the floor, is being sucked into the FAU through a return system). This type of system seems to allow for warming without higher temperatures being present through distribution means such as radiators. As I also understand it, if you use only one radiator without a circulating fan, the radiator has to get extremely hot, hot and dangerous enough to burn.


    Now my questions: If the Blue Box with the samovar attached (credit to someone above for the description was supposed to be the only means of heating a 42,000 cubic foot area (3,000 with 14 foot high ceilings), how the hell does it do that? I see no connections for HVAC tubing and if the samovar is supposed to be putting out all the necessary heat, without a blower or fan, I would have to imagine that the samovar would be verrrrrry hot, and yet it was covered with what appeared to be an ordinary sheet without any harm to the sheet, or to the man with no upper body who stands right next to the samovar.


    I would appreciate any substantive corrections / answers to my questions / premises (that means calling me a babbler, idiot or just stupid only reflects on the commenter).

    Quote from Dr Richard

    Or maybe physicists begin working initially on cold fusion start off being objective but once bitten by the bug of possible fame and fortune etc lose their objectivity and begin synthesising the data to suit/back up their patent applications?

    Nope. They were all government employees, working for Uncle Sam at national labs, or the state of Utah, Illinois, the Italian gov't, Japanese national universities, etc. There was no prospect of fame or fortune for them, any more than there was for the government employees who invented the internet. The patent applications I have seen would have been awarded to the various universities and government agencies.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Deleo

    I think there is no reason to believe that AR will deliver a working e-cat within weeks to anyone.


    I would agree with that. Any competent business tries to minimize the obstacles (make the transition smooth) between when a customer wants to buy, and when it happens. Rossi reverses that, and actually challenges the customer to meet his standards before he will do business with them. If they qualify, they then have a list of things to accomplish first, before Rossi will deliver the product.


    If he really has something, anything, this is not the way to go about it.

    Quote from Shane D.

    I would agree with that. Any competent business tries to minimize the obstacles (make the transition smooth) between when a customer wants to buy, and when it happens. Rossi reverses that, and actually challenges the customer to meet his standards before he will do business with them. If they qualify, they then have a list of things to accomplish first, before Rossi will deliver the product.


    If he really has something, anything, this is not the way to go about it.

    Silly wabbit, AA will explain to us that such is the way all big industrial, engineering and other businesses all do business. We babblers just don't understand big business.

    Quote from woodworker

    Now my questions: If the Blue Box with the samovar attached (credit to someone above for the description was supposed to be the only means of heating a 42,000 cubic foot area (3,000 with 14 foot high ceilings), how the hell does it do that? I see no connections for HVAC tubing and if the samovar is supposed to be putting out all the necessary heat, without a blower or fan, I would have to imagine that the samovar would be verrrrrry hot

    Good point! Good catch. (I shoulda, woulda, thunk of it . . . he says jealously.) It is similar to the observations made by Murray and others visiting Doral; i.e. "why isn't everyone in this room cooked, if that thing is producing a megawatt?"


    I have a small house heated with a 1920 Franklin stove. The house is 1000 sq. feet at most. The stove is much bigger than the blue box. It gets hot enough to cook on. I mean that: we cook eggs, coffee, etc. You would be burned if you touched the top. A cloth placed over it would be in danger of igniting even if there were no flames but only embers. The smoke and much of the heat goes up the flue, out of the room.



    (This is getting off topic but Franklin stoves stoves are dangerous, because the heat is so concentrated and because they are right in the room. The township is run by spoilsports who will not approve of my stove, just because it is a century old, extremely dangerous to small children and drunk adults, and likely to burn the house down. Modern people have no idea how dangerous life used to be. My grandfather once came home, saw a kerosene lamp that was flaming up out of control (low kerosene, dry wick), and threw it right through the living room window glass out onto the lawn where it exploded.


    Another note that modern people may not know: Because the stove gets so hot, you can't cook indoors in summer. 19th century houses often had two stoves, one in the house, and one on the porch or in a small summer kitchen building next to the house.


    Franklin stoves and kerosene stoves are still common in Japan. One of them nearly killed the son of a friend of mine, permanently scarring him. People who feel nostalgic about such things should spend a week living with them.)

    Quote from woodworker

    Now my questions: If the Blue Box with the samovar attached (credit to someone above for the description was supposed to be the only means of heating a 42,000 cubic foot area (3,000 with 14 foot high ceilings), how the hell does it do that? I see no connections for HVAC tubing and if the samovar is supposed to be putting out all the necessary heat, without a blower or fan, I would have to imagine that the samovar would be verrrrrry hot, and yet it was covered with what appeared to be an ordinary sheet without any harm to the sheet, or to the man with no upper body who stands right next to the samovar.

    Hey, you are not closely following the e-catSK story.

    Rossi solved this problem already last year, when he invented a “fantastic new heat exchanger”.


    How this new fantasic system works, he never disclosed (I thinks some time ago he wrote that a patent application is pending, so he can not tell more now), and shouldn’t concern you. - It doesn’t concern his loyal followers neither.

    When the guru says problem solved, then it’s considered solved. - So, STFU!

    Quote from interested observer

    All of this discussion of the SK seems to imply that we actually saw it yesterday. We saw a blue box and we saw an image of something very bright. That is all we saw. Based on Rossi's impeccable record of providing reliable and factual information, does anybody actually believe we learned anything about this so-called device? At least with the QX we got to see some sprinkler parts. This time around, Rossi didn't even bother to jin up some gadgetry. But, it was a nice blue box with a brass samovar and a panic button on top. That much we can surely say. Rossi must giggle himself to sleep every night thinking about the people who actually take him seriously.

    io,


    Yes, there are probably 30-40 people over at ECW that do actually believe that.

    • Official Post
    Quote from woodworker

    AA will explain to us that such is the way all big industrial, engineering and other businesses all do business.


    LOLs, he may. I would like to see him a little more active than he has been recently. Not only curious about his, but all Rossi believers opinions after the video/interview. We can not call it a "demonstration" anymore I guess, because nothing was demonstrated.

    Bob,

    That’s a “2 thumbs up, Roseland67 approved” RANT, well done.


    Have a Macallan on the rocks and go to bed knowing you earned your day of rest.

    Quote from Roseland67

    Bob,

    That’s a “2 thumbs up, Roseland67 approved” RANT, well done.


    Have a Macallan on the rocks and go to bed knowing you earned your day of rest.

    You do not put decent or good scotch "on the rocks." That is an abomination, maybe two or three drops of water, but please no ice.


    I am thinking of buying a bottle of Lagavulin 16yo and I just got a bottle of Glenmorangie Nectar D'or 16yo for my knee surgeon (left knee complete replacement 11 weeks ago, right knee on March 7 -- if the second goes as well as the first, I will get him a bottle of Lagavulin).

    Quote from Shane D.

    As to Russ and Alan still believing in Rossi after this debacle (not sure what Alan thinks)...well, that is because of what they are seeing right now in the Essex Dairy Barn.

    Perhaps it would be fairer to say they believe in nanoparticle gas loading not only thanks to Rossi, but also to Arata, Mizuno, Takahashi, Beiting and others who have observed it. Rossi claims he saw it, and the first Levi report is evidence that he may have. But even if he did replicate, I do not think it is fair to give him all the credit for this technique.


    Given all the problems with Lugano and his other reactors, I doubt he ever found anything.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Bob

    It has been said here that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I disagree. Extraordinary claims require evidence period. So far, we have seen none. Rumors of visitors are just that, same as Rossi's aerospace engineers over the years. Fanciful claims of "dancing gamma girls" is just that... fanciful claims if not supported by evidence/data. As time goes on, the lack of evidence or corroboration greatly reduces likely hood of the extraordinary claim.


    The way I look at it, is that they are at the stage any researcher seeing fantastic results, would not make a formal presentation of their data. Way too early for that (been 9 months), but they are so excited with what they found after decades of searching, they can not help themselves from saying something. Like the old miner, and his pack mule prospecting for gold in the desert for 20 years, hitting the mother load, and can't help himself when walking to the nearest town and yelling eureka, before cashing in.


    While what they say, and how they act may not be up to your, and a few others standards, I believe most here enjoy, and appreciate what Russ, and Alan have been passing on to us. If this pans out like we hope, we will have had a historic, and personal glimpse, to how it unfolded in the earliest days.

    Say what?? Engineer48 reported the gadget produces 22 kWt (thermal). That's 75,000 btu/h. That's a small home furnace. Most are 80,000 to 100,000. You need 40 to 45 btu per square foot. So that would be suitable for a 1,900 sq. ft. house with 8' ceilings in a temperate climate. Not a 3,000 sq. ft. facility with 14' ceilings. This time of year, people would be wearing coats in the facility with only a 75,000 btu heater. Unless it had much better insulation than most commercial real estate.


    To put it another way, 14 electric heaters in a large warehouse will not cut it. As it happens, my office HVAC was off for a week in December. There were lots of electric heaters but the place was seldom above 55 deg F.


    Also, as noted by Woodworker, a 75,000 btu furnace has air blowing through it constantly, so it doesn't get very hot. The heat is rapidly distributed throughout the house. There is a gas-fired one in the closet next to my kitchen, which is burning at this moment. I just touched the faceplate and the flue. Care-full-ly. They are warm but not hot to the touch. Here is a modern 90,000 btu Franklin stove:


    https://www.acehardware.com/de…and-pellet-stoves/4639720


    The heat from this is not distributed. (There are some models with blowers, and some even hook into regular ducts, but not this one.) Anyway, if you held you hand on the face of this, or the flue, for as long as I just touched the gas fired furnace, you would be in the hospital.

    Quote from woodworker

    I have a couple of basic questions about heating the alleged space. I ask it in all seriousness because I am neither an engineer nor a scientist. Here in California most houses have central heating, with one or more forced air units. The FAU is usually gas fired and then the warm air is circulated throughout the desired areas using a blower and ventilation tubes. This allows the warmer air to be distributed and output to spots throughout the desired area, thereby, as I understand it, allowing the warmer air to mix more easily with the existing air (while the colder air, which is heavier and thus lower to the floor, is being sucked into the FAU through a return system). This type of system seems to allow for warming without higher temperatures being present through distribution means such as radiators. As I also understand it, if you use only one radiator without a circulating fan, the radiator has to get extremely hot, hot and dangerous enough to burn.


    Now my questions: If the Blue Box with the samovar attached (credit to someone above for the description was supposed to be the only means of heating a 42,000 cubic foot area (3,000 with 14 foot high ceilings), how the hell does it do that? I see no connections for HVAC tubing and if the samovar is supposed to be putting out all the necessary heat, without a blower or fan, I would have to imagine that the samovar would be verrrrrry hot, and yet it was covered with what appeared to be an ordinary sheet without any harm to the sheet, or to the man with no upper body who stands right next to the samovar.


    I would appreciate any substantive corrections / answers to my questions / premises (that means calling me a babbler, idiot or just stupid only reflects on the commenter).


    I think there is a misunderstanding. In the E-Cat SK video, the E-Cat presented was not operating, and tubing was not connected. It was there just for display. Now, an E-Cat that was operating would be less hot than a normal boiler, because it does not require air intake and exhaust. It appears sealed. And note: even typical boilers do not get that hot. I can lean up against our 1980s natural gas furnace while it is running with no concern at all. The vast majority of the heat energy is piped away for proper distribution, as also would occur for an operating E-Cat SK.

    About heating 42,000 cubic feet. I did the (very simple) calculations for a detached building with dimensions 10m by 30m by 4m, assuming an average R10 value of insulation on the walls and ceiling, and heat loss through the floor the same as that through the walls and ceiling. With the temperature outside 16C colder than inside, 13kW of power is lost to the outside. Thus any heater must be putting out something like 13kW of power, fairly consistent with the stated power output of the E-Cat SK.

    Yeah it was clearly a mistake to try to calculate energy from that kind of spectrum. Rossi is self admittedly bad at doing simple calculations, and now as it appears, he can be bad at applying theory.

    But heat is heat, pretty straightforward when the amounts are significant. I'll be waiting in earnest for the first customers to report back.

    Interesting theory about the ballerina and the application of UV led's. Problem is, it wouldn't account for the alleged intense brightness and it wouldn't account for the cliff ; no photon wavelengths above 450nm. Provided that is real. Very strange spectrum. If UV LEDs were used there would have to be many varieties, ranging from the 200 to 400 nm range.

    Personally I was quite enchanted by the Ballerina, rather hypnotic. That in itself is worthy of serious investigation. I can understand how Rossi was quite taken with it. Me too!

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    I forgot to mention that the puppet show and song were actually enjoyable to me. I appreciate any kind of attempt at humor. If this was a real working power source I think this would be a great marketing device. But since the rest of the presentation was a farce it cemented the fact that Rossi is a fraud.

    Quote from PhysicsForDummies

    Kind of related to Jed's point that the COP is irrelevant, why can't the customer who Rossi refers to as "he", just close the damn loop themselves. I am not an electrical engineer, but would it not be fairly easy to generate the 360 W or whatever it is that is needed via some kind of simple electrical device (ex Peltier effect based)? Then feed back ..


    Likely easier to be able to restart remotely , should there be any unforeseen problems.

    It's early stages.

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