Rossi E-Cat SK Demo Discussion

  • Like many others we have run into here, I think Frank is honest and doesn't make much money from his web site which doesn't have that much traffic. Lewan the same, I doubt that Levi got rich off his work with Rossi.


    But many Rossi proponents are immensely desirous and gullible. Many but not all lack the necessary science background, education and experience. That is how high tech and free energy scams succeed.

  • Like many others we have run into here, I think Frank is honest and doesn't make much money from his web site which doesn't have that much traffic. Lewan the same, I doubt that Levi got rich off his work with Rossi.


    But many Rossi proponents are immensely desirous and gullible. Many but not all lack the necessary science background, education and experience. That is how high tech and free energy scams succeed.

    perhaps Levi made all his money from the pinball machines.

  • "The only 'advertising' is a sock puppet Youtube video and an amateur video of a blue scrap box in a rented apartment."


    And this one, very prominent on ECW. Almost like Frank Ackland is a subsidary of Leornardo...doesn't he violate common rules using Rossi's Cat- Logo and this advertisement piece? At least he should provide a disclaimer, shouldn't he?




    This is not an advertisement but a amateurish made death notice ;)

  • The SGS document is right on the Leonardo Website. I'm unsure how easily it can be found elsewhere.

    Indeed it is! Still selling the 1MW plants as well and no mention of the Skat Cat! Why?


    https://ecat.com/ecat-technology/ecat-certificate


    Please note this paragraph on the document, from Rossi's own website. :


    "This certificate relates soley to the above identified prototype machine within the limits of the request for voluntary testing of essential health and safety requirements relevant to Annex I of Directive 2006/42/EC. The certificate does not constitute a "product certification" and cannot, in any way, be used for commercial purposes and / or advertising by the company on whose behalf the certificate was issued."


    Here is a link to Annex I Directive 200642/EC


    https://osha.europa.eu/en/legi…iament-and-of-the-council


    So if Rossi is claiming the SGS cert is his "industrial certification" he is clearly deluded or simply lying.


    1) He is selling in the US and the directive is not an approved US standard.

    2) The SGS document itself clearly states that it cannot be used fro production nor ADVERTISING!. So Rossi is breaking the document agreement here already!

    3) The SGS document to directive 2006/42/EC is only for general safety of external controls. It does not apply any heating process, nuclear or not. No radiation monitoring included in this.


    As usual, Rossi promotes fantasy. However, his acolytes, instead of reading and admitting to the facts, will conjure excuses and twist interpretation to cover their chosen leaders damning faults.


    Read the links if you doubt the above. Still want to hitch your wagon to Rossi's horse? Sure is giving you a lot of credibility. :/


    The reason I seem so adamate on this is that I really want to see "Cold Fusion" succeed. Cold fusion has been given enough of a black eye by main stream science (in some cases) and news media following that lead. The Cold Fusion community needs to police itself and weed out the cons and scams. Those in the most visible and active positions need to be vocal on this in my opinion. They need to carry the yoke of being above reproach and professional. No "dancing" in science. When they instead refuse to critique or in the case on this forum, out and out support Rossi, it only further damages the field. Mainstream will tie all of Cold Fusion in with Rossi. Do you really want your legacy tied with his?


    I sure as hell would not. It is absolutely without question that Rossi is a lying fraud and con. Has been his seemingly entire career. Truly remarkable that some still ignore the prodigious amounts of fact to cling to the minute hope that he chanced across the scientific discovery of the century. :?:

  • Bob : I think it is tribalism at its most self-defeating. Because Rossi has hitched his crooked wagon to cold fusion, even the community members who are completely convinced that he is a total fraud somehow feel it is disloyal to throw Rossi under the bus. As you implied, having Rossi as the most visible face of cold fusion does incredible damage to the field.

  • Nothing puzzling about that. High tech scamming, like good sleight of hand magic, is not easy. It takes time and practice to make sure it will work right and none of the marks (uh... customers) will see how the fake is done.

    I do not think so. Assuming Rossi's earlier machines were fake, it would not have taken long to make them. They were simple in construction. He wouldn't need to make dozens. He would not have to put on a show in his workshop. He could just not allow any visitors, while claiming he was working hard. But he did allow visitors.


    In the course of working on cold fusion, on two occasions I have seen fake devices unrelated to cold fusion. They probably took only a few days to make. The scammers did not have to devote weeks or months to making them, and once they made a single fake machine, they could use it indefinitely, since the machine did not actually do anything.


    You overlook the fact that the customers -- I.H. -- did see how the fake was done. Anyone could see it. The Doral equipment was obviously fake, because people in the building were not cooked. However, it was also a very complex and expensive machine, with many moving parts. That is strange. He could have accomplished the same thing with a pretend reactor the size of his earlier ones, that supposedly generated a few kilowatts. I.H. never asked him to make a giant machine. They were not happy with it.


    Some people have said it is easier to fool people with an impressive, large machine than with a kilowatt scale machine. But the large machine did not fool anyone, as you see from the Murray and Smith reports. As I said, the first thing that occurred to all visitors was: "Why isn't it hot in here?" The Penon report data was obviously fake. The faceplate of the flow meter showed it was the wrong kind, and anyone could see it was on a mostly empty return pipe. The whole installation fairly shouted out "FAKE FAKE FAKE!!!" Why did he do it? In retrospect, I think it was the Nigerian Scammer strategy. He was lining up an attempt to bamboozle very stupid people in a Florida jury. He must have known he could never fool Murray. He didn't fool the people from I.H. They told me they didn't believe it, months before the "test" came to an end. (They did not tell me any details then, or how bad it was.)

  • Like many others we have run into here, I think Frank is honest and doesn't make much money from his web site which doesn't have that much traffic. Lewan the same, I doubt that Levi got rich off his work with Rossi.


    But many Rossi proponents are immensely desirous and gullible. Many but not all lack the necessary science background, education and experience. That is how high tech and free energy scams succeed.

    https://www.collective-evoluti…eo-of-machine-in-article/


  • I doubt waiting longer to see is really destructive to my legacy (if that even matters) or even to cold fusion in general. I'm at least I'm willing to give my full name. I'm open minded enough to realize it may be a scam, yet I like to hope just a bit on this (since it hasn't been proven to be a scam) and other LENR efforts. We know that the history of science has eccentric inventors and paths to realization. I hope this forum will have a good natured exchange of facts and opinions on both sides until more info comes to light.

  • I think it is tribalism at its most self-defeating. Because Rossi has hitched his crooked wagon to cold fusion, even the community members who are completely convinced that he is a total fraud somehow feel it is disloyal to throw Rossi under the bus.

    Which tribe are you talking about? If you mean cold fusion researchers, there are three groups. The largest is people who despise Rossi and never believed him. The second is people who have not heard of him, because they don't get out much. The third is a very small number who wrote theories to explain his machines. I do not think any of them still believe it.

  • But arguing with you is like trying to pin jello to a bulletin board,

    At least I try to present facts, and I document everything I say, and I have uploaded thousands of documents that most people agree prove what I say. Or make a good case for it. For example, I just said that I.H. was not fooled. You can read the Penon report, the Murray report and so on and confirm that.


    You, on the other hand, make stuff up. You give us no reason to believe what you claim. When we ask you for some kind of evidence, you change the subject.

  • Quote

    You, on the other hand, make stuff up. You give us no reason to believe what you claim. When we ask you for some kind of evidence, you change the subject

    Nonsense. Sometimes, I give what is an opinion and when I do, it is as well based as I can make it. When possible without undue work, I provide links. I do that a lot.

    When it comes to scams and scammers, I have yet to be proven wrong when I called one out definitively. You, on the other hand...


    Quote

    I have uploaded thousands of documents that most people agree prove what I say. Or make a good case for it.

    Most people????!!!! Where is the documentation for that absurd assertion?


    Quote

    I just said that I.H. was not fooled. You can read the Penon report, the Murray report and so on and confirm that.

    If IH was not fooled, they were pretty stupid and negligent to give more than $11.5M to Rossi and probably at least half that much more to lawyers. Maybe they sobered up along the way but that does not excuse the lack of due diligence before the investment. I know of several individuals who were tempted to give Rossi and cronies money early on and they consulted the internet and from there contacted Rossi critics. They then proposed tests which Rossi refused and they did not invest. That is what IH should have done.

  • The Cold Fusion community needs to police itself and weed out the cons and scams. Those in the most visible and active positions need to be vocal on this in my opinion.

    Rossi has never published a paper in a cold fusion journal or attended a conference. Most researchers hate him. I do not see how they could "weed" him out. Weed him out of where? He is not part of any cold fusion institution. "Police" him how? They have no influence whatever with the public. No one listens to them. They cannot even get a letter published in Wired magazine, never mind the New York Times or Scientific American. Most of them are, in fact, dead. Dead people have little or no influence on society, to paraphrase Mark Twain.


    ("Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society.")

  • If IH was not fooled, they were pretty stupid and negligent to give more than $11.5M to Rossi and probably at least half that much more to lawyers.

    I mean they were not fooled by the Doral test. The one described in the Penon paper and the documents by Murray and Smith. Read them and see for yourself. Murray was not fooled.


    Evidently they were fooled by the Levi tests. I think that is what swayed them, but I don't know. Perhaps the sequence of events is described in the lawsuit documents, but I only read a few of them, so I don't know. If they were fooled by the first Levi test, I can understand why, because I do not see anything seriously wrong with it. I hope I would not have recommended paying $10 million on the strength of it. No one asked me for a recommendation, then or ever.

  • Most people????!!!! Where is the documentation for that absurd assertion?

    I am talking about technical assertions here. Such as where I said that you can change the COP by putting the anode and cathode closer together. Or my assertion that d-d fusion produces 345,000 MJ/g of deuterium. Or that Murray did not believe the Doral test was working. You can read the literature I point to and confirm that I am right. Or that I made a mistake. I never ask anyone to take my word for it.


    I have added many nit-picking comments to the the papers I copy edit. I usually reference my source of information. Most people who have read the documents I reference agree that they make a good case for my assertions. People who have not read the documents, and people who know nothing about cold fusion may not agree, but they don't count.

  • Quote

    What, exactly, would prove to you it's a scam?


    Good question - perhaps the lack of a customer who can verify the device within a year or so. This is hard to say exactly since Leonardo is still purportedly kind of a slow start-up company that isn't quite yet claimed to be ready for high volume production. Also a good question as to what the rationale would be for customers to keep this a secret, except for not wanting attention. We should ask Rossi how long this process of "discovery" will take, he did say it will "resolve itself".

  • Good question - perhaps the lack of a customer who can verify the device within a year or so. This is hard to say exactly since Leonardo is still purportedly kind of a slow start-up company that isn't quite yet claimed to be ready for high volume production. Also a good question as to what the rationale would be for customers to keep this a secret, except for not wanting attention. We should ask Rossi how long this process of "discovery" will take, he did say it will "resolve itself".


    We already know how this is going to play out. AR will ask himself a question on his website a couple of months from now. The question will be “how many customers did you pick up since the demo?”


    AR will answer “several”, and that they are all happy, and everything is magnificent and working as advertised. But he will say he can’t reveal who the customers are because they all signed confidentiality agreements. Some people on ECW will believe AR, even they aren’t 100% certain. But they are hopeful. Same thing different year.

  • I can sympathize with the notion that refereed journals tend to reject new things.


    Not quite right. Refereed journals will reject manuscripts if the findings are not novel. But then they will also reject works that are so novel that the evidence does not back up the claims. It is a line that has to be walked.