Rossi E-Cat SK Demo Discussion

We'll see Deleo - it will be interesting. This does seem to be the first time he's publicly advertising the ability to make sales with 2 week delivery.

Quote from Bruce__H

Not quite right. Refereed journals will reject manuscripts if the findings are not novel. But then they will also reject works that are so novel that the evidence does not back up the claims. It is a line that has to be walked.

I think sometimes with very novel things the reviewers aren't familiar enough with the topic to render a good judgement so there is some bias to reject new ideas or ways of doing things. Science is after all a human enterprise. Thus for learning about more radical ideas we have to look beyond what is (so far) formally published if we want to be on top of new developments.

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Most researchers hate him [Rossi].

You mean like McKubre, Focardi, Levi and Josephson and others I'd have to search out and won't. Or were you thinking of scientists who did not attend to Rossi at some point or other like so many proponents of LENR did? Many favorable articles were written about Rossi in lay journals and none of those illustrious scientists you are thinking of seemed to respond to those. That was left to internet skeptics who were then roundly insulted and in a few cases threatened for it. Other skeptics were banned from the forums some of those scientists contributed to. Geez, where were you between 2011 and 2013?

Steve Albers

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Good question - perhaps the lack of a customer who can verify the device within a year or so.

So seven years of claiming a customer without showing one doesn't bother you but one additional year will? Please explain how that works!

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We'll see Deleo - it will be interesting. This does seem to be the first time he's publicly advertising the ability to make sales with 2 week delivery

You're not counting the incidents in which he claimed to have already delivered devices to customers. And for years he claimed a one to a few months delivery for a megawatt "plant" as he was fond of calling it. That wasn't true (none of it) and nothing he says or promises now will be true either. What in the world is it you Rossi-ites don't get about how con men operate?

This time is different in the sense that we should be ramping up to see multiple customers in the relatively near future, rather than just one shot customers who are doing long-term testing. We might assume he migrated away from the MW plant to develop the new versions. 5-10 years for a new technology isn't much in the big picture. I'd like ask the moderator to censure you for trying to label me or others, simply for wanting to see more evidence before drawing a conclusion. Isn't that the scientific method?

In the event he is a con man he's a scientifically more intelligent one than most. We could try the exercise of putting probabilities on this. Even if it's 10-50% of being real it's worth the time to follow it based on the benefit. More of the edge things in science and technology should be given every opportunity to show their worth. There's enough internet bandwidth (and venture capital) to get the information out and a reasonable debate about new ideas.

Quote from seven_of_twenty

You mean like McKubre, Focardi, Levi and Josephson and others I'd have to search out and won't.

They hate him now. Some of them thought he might have something for a while, as did I. Go ahead and search out the others.

CORRECTION. Russ George supports Rossi, and he has published four papers, listed in a message below. I knew he published an interview -- which is well worth reading, by the way -- but I forgot about the other three papers. I should have checked my own bibliography.

Frankly, I am surprised Russ George still supports him. I did not realize that until a few days ago. It seems strange.

Quote from seven_of_twenty

Or were you thinking of scientists who did not attend to Rossi at some point or other like so many proponents of LENR did?

Not sure what "attend to" means. I know only three who met him. I am not a scientist, but he refused to see me when I said I would bring instruments. He refused some others for that reason.

Quote from seven_of_twenty

Many favorable articles were written about Rossi in lay journals and none of those illustrious scientists you are thinking of seemed to respond to those.

Name three lay journal articles about Rossi. Granted, I mentioned him a few times. McKubre wrote a review of Lugano. It was not favorable. (Plus that was more about Levi than Rossi.)

Quote from seven_of_twenty

Other skeptics were banned from the forums some of those scientists contributed to.

Who was banned, from what forum? What forum do any cold fusion scientists contribute to? Kim is the only scientist I know who wrote about Rossi in a theory paper. He has not contributed to a forum as far as I know.

Let me repeat the question I asked above. You claimed that I have been wrong about scammers. Again:

Which ones have I been wrong about, other than Rossi?

It is a little irresponsible for you to claim I have been duped, without saying who duped me. It makes me seem gullible.

Frankly, I doubt you can list any scammers who have published cold fusion papers. There may be some scammers who have not published, but they are off my radar. I ignore such people. I have some doubts about some published researchers, such as the two who threatened to sue me for discussing their work. I don't suppose they are scamming anyone, but if they are, I wouldn't know. I am not a policeman and I know nothing about their funding. It does seem odd for a scientist to threaten legal action against a person who points out apparent errors in calorimetry.

Quote from Steve Albers

This time is different in the sense that we should be seeing multiple customers in the near future, rather than just one shot customers who are doing testing. We might assume he migrated away from the MW plant to develop the new versions. 5-10 years for a new technology isn't much in the big picture. I'd like ask the moderator to censure you for trying to label me or others, simply for wanting to see more evidence before drawing a conclusion. Isn't that the scientific method?

In the event he is a con man he's a scientifically more intelligent one than most. We could try the exercise of putting probabilities on this. Even if it's 10-50% of being real it's worth the time to follow it based on the benefit.

I have seen virtually this same post innumerable times for the past 7 years and expect to see it again and again for years to come. Some people just never get it.

At least it will help keep this forum in business

Quote from Steve Albers

At least it will help keep this forum in business

The LENR stalwarts should chime in and correct me if I am wrong but I don’t think Rossi and his s***show are the primary purpose for this forum.

Quote from Bob

I was referring to some of the main players here. A.S., R.G. and W.

Who is W? (Surely not the president Bush the younger??) A.S. has not published a paper as far as I know. R.G. has published 1 interview and 3 papers:

George, R.1994George, R., The cold fusion phenomenon -- An interview with Dr. Mahadeva Srinivasan, in Cold Fusion. 1994.OPEN

George, R.1996George, R., Production of He4 from deuterium via reaction on a palladium carbon hydrogenation catalyst at 200?C. 1996.

George, R.1996George, R. and R. Stringham, Technical report on the demonstration of new technology producing heat and nuclear products via cavitation induced micro-fusion in E-quest sciences Mark II research device. 1996.

George, R.1997George, R., Observations of helium bubbles in thin palladium metal foil using scanning electron microscopy. 1997.

Earlier, I wrote that he has not published. I owe him an apology for that. I should have checked my own bibliography! I have not read the latter three. They are not on file.

The interview is pretty good, by the way.

So you are right about R.G. Good catch.

Quote from Bob

I believe you are correct that most such as McKubre and others do not believe Rossi, but then they do not post that here either. Thus the AAs, Axils and RGs feed the believers, giving life to the Rossi fiasco.

If it were not for ECW and this forum, I think the Rossi story would pass quickly.

Perhaps, but I think the I.H. disaster is what gave life to the story. It was one of the worst thing that has happened to cold fusion, and a lot of bad things have happened. If it wasn't for bad luck, we wouldn't have any luck at all, as Albert King put it.

Quote from DnG

Maybe you'r all missing the bigger picture with not knowing how his unit works anyone that comes out with s working system he can claim its his tech and Keep the use of lenr in limbo ..Seems court may be a playground if you have the right trap set.along with all the others getting there paperwork ready, What are we walking into this day and age. never ending traps.

Until you get an investment from the wrong person, one who doesn't restrict themselves solely to legal remedies.

Quote from Shane D.

Steve,

All Rossi discussions are free-for-all zones. There is just no peaceful middle ground when it comes to talking about the man, his methods, actions, and history. So those who chose to participate, should know they enter at their own risk...those are the rules

That said, I did not see what comment you were referring to, when you say you were "labeled"?

Thanks Shane for the info. If you want maximum participation here I'd point out that my netiquette is that one shouldn't classify people as "Rossi-ite" or any other type of label.

FWIW - I'd venture to say that ECW does allow skeptical polite posts so civil discussion is possible. I'm also posting here to ensure I'm seeing the most diversity of opinions.

Quote from Steve Albers

I doubt waiting longer to see is really destructive to my legacy (if that even matters) or even to cold fusion in general. I'm at least I'm willing to give my full name. I'm open minded enough to realize it may be a scam, yet I like to hope just a bit on this (since it hasn't been proven to be a scam) and other LENR efforts. We know that the history of science has eccentric inventors and paths to realization. I hope this forum will have a good natured exchange of facts and opinions on both sides until more info comes to light.

One problem with that approach is that the proven facts relating to Rossi all show that he is a fraud, a conman and a liar. The only "facts" to the contrary are, at the end of the day, "RossiSays." RossiSays ain't facts.

Quote from interested observer

I have seen virtually this same post innumerable times for the past 7 years and expect to see it again and again for years to come. Some people just never get it.

Sorry, but the more public advertising and two week delivery seems new, unless you can show me otherwise. I also like the scientific details he's offering.

Quote from Steve Albers

Sorry, but the more public advertising and two week delivery seems new, unless you can show me otherwise.

As old-timers will tell you, Rossi was advertising 1 MW e-cats with 4-week delivery on his website and those of his distributors at least 5 years ago. Or are you all excited that he has cut his delivery time for his non-existent product in half? I don’t want to label you but you are either new to this freak show or suffering serious memory loss.

I have a simple question for the Rossi supporters / wait for more "evidence" folks. I assume, and please feel free to correct me, that it would be fairly straightforward (by which I mean it would not require any technological or other breakthroughs) to measure the energy input and output of Rossi's widget without looking behind the curtain of his IP. So, if my assumption is correct, why doesn't Rossi simply allow an independent third party to take such measurements? Instead he refuses to allow anyone independent to even measure the energy input/output. If he had something, this would be the easiest way to prove it without revealing any IP. His absolute refusal to allow such a measurement, and his ridiculous excuses for avoiding it, tell me has nothing,

woodworker: Rossi doesn’t want to provide proof that his gizmo works because he wants to limit himself to a special group of customers: utter morons.

How can the customers be both non-existent and what you labeled them as ? Shane is right about the click-bait nature of this thread.