Rossi E-Cat SK Demo Discussion

  • IO - agreed!

    And we should not forget Rossi's frequent statements on the temperature in his little nuclear reactors / plasma: 1eV = 11604 K! The most recent one but was 8111 K from his scribble board...anyway very difficult to imagine how he will remove the 22kW from the photons from the plasma. The shaking (why shaking?) camera had a direct line-of-sight (shielding removed?) to the core of the (whatever kind of transparent) plasma cylinder and did not show any sign of any medium that converts the photon energy into heat...another mysterious thing would be how the video camera can "see" something around that very bright plasma while most likely also peeking through a 14 shade protection?

  • IO - agreed!

    And we should not forget Rossi's frequent statements on the temperature in his little nuclear reactors / plasma: 1eV = 11604 K! The most recent one but was 8111 K from his scribble board...anyway very difficult to imagine how he will remove the 22kW from the photons from the plasma. The shaking (why shaking?) camera had a direct line-of-sight (shielding removed?) to the core of the (whatever kind of transparent) plasma cylinder and did not show any sign of any medium that converts the photon energy into heat...another mysterious thing would be how the video camera can "see" something around that very bright plasma while most likely also peeking through a 14 shade protection?

    How the camera sees the blinding light is a good question.

  • Soooo...., we scale the QX from a 16 inch screen, and using the box dimensions determine a ‘likely radius maximum’ distance for the camera position....

    Then, anyone want to try that out distance with a video camera looking at a 8111 K, 22000 W/cm2 object? (Roughly equivalent to 400 HID headlamps on high beam packed into a 1 cm2, but only looking at about 1/3 of it so maybe 125 HID headlamps equivalent at maybe 20 cm distance?)

  • IO - agreed!

    And we should not forget Rossi's frequent statements on the temperature in his little nuclear reactors / plasma: 1eV = 11604 K! The most recent one but was 8111 K from his scribble board...anyway very difficult to imagine how he will remove the 22kW from the photons from the plasma. The shaking (why shaking?) camera had a direct line-of-sight (shielding removed?) to the core of the (whatever kind of transparent) plasma cylinder and did not show any sign of any medium that converts the photon energy into heat...another mysterious thing would be how the video camera can "see" something around that very bright plasma while most likely also peeking through a 14 shade protection?

    And we should not forget Rossi's frequent statements on the temperature in his little nuclear reactors / plasma: 1eV = 11604 K! The most recent one but was 8111 K from his scribble board.

    I would take Rossi's calculations regarding temperature with a big grain of salt. Colour 'temperature' based on certain spectrum attributes and actual thermal temperature can vary immensely when the kinetics of the plasma does not follow the Maxwell Boltzmann distribution. Based on the shape of the spectrum it doesn't follow that distribution, so I wouldn't put too much stock in Rossi's derivation.


    anyway very difficult to imagine how he will remove the 22kW from the photons from the plasma

    As far as I can deduce, the Ballerina is enclosed in a 10cm tall by 10cm diameter transparent sealed cylinder. I believe the cylinder is contacted by either flowing liquid or flowing gas (argon) to carry heat away. I suspect by far most of the energy leaves the plasma via radiative cooling ; the photons pass through the transparent cylinder and heat the surrounding moving liquid or gas.


    The shaking (why shaking?) camera had a direct line-of-sight (shielding removed?) to the core

    I think it is a mistake to believe the camera is shaking. Rather, the plasma is oscillating ; stretching and contracting in all directions. A careful look at the video will show that movement in all quarters of the video is not congruent among the quarters as one would expect if the camera was merely shaking.

    About the 'core'. I don't think core is visible. It is apparently very small and emits mostly in the eUV. Plasma is not transparent to eUV, and by the the time the camera sees the light, the eUV light from the core has been absorbed and reemitted diffusely at lower frequency by the plasma.


    another mysterious thing would be how the video camera can "see" something around that very bright plasma while most likely also peeking through a 14 shade protection?

    I think the reason is that the plasma around the Ballerina (but still contained within the cylinder) is also quite bright, just not nearly as bright as the Ballerina.



  • That would mean that what Rossi's got is nuclear. I thought the skeptopath position was that Rossi simply had NOTHING, that he was a flimflam artist, perhaps one of the greatest of all time.

    You are confusing comments made in the subjunctive mood: IF the e-cat was actually what Rossi claims it is, it WOULD be illegal and dangerous to operate it, not that the silly box in the video IS what Rossi claims, or is dangerous.


    Also the “skeptopath” (in this case meaning anyone with more brains than a starfish) position is that Rossi is a flimflam artist and a pretty crappy and embarrassingly inept one, not one of the greatest of all time.

  • You are confusing comments made in the subjunctive mood: IF the e-cat was actually what Rossi claims it is, it WOULD be illegal and dangerous to operate it, not that the silly box in the video IS what Rossi claims, or is dangerous.


    ***Then , NO, I am not confusing those comments. You just said it again: If what he has is real... " IF the e-cat was actually what Rossi claims it is," That would mean he actually HAS something, and it is potentially worth $Billions and could change world history. But your concern is that he's operating stuff without licenses. That's pretty damned classic nit picking.





    it WOULD be illegal and dangerous to operate it,...or is dangerous.

    ***Yes to all the above. It would be illegal and dangerous and world changing, worth $Billions. IF. And for the folks who so often have so much trouble processing conditional statements, again I say IF. Are we clear on that IF:thing? Say it with me....IF. My prediction is that someone ignores my BIG IF precursors when they respond.

  • Also the “skeptopath” ...position is that Rossi is a flimflam artist and a pretty crappy and embarrassingly inept one, not one of the greatest of all time.



    ***So this embarrassingly inept flimflam artist convinced Focardi and Levi and a bunch of other scientists that he had LENR in a bag, did the same with a bunch of other scientists (one of whom was in the Swedish Skeptics Society), and snookered Industrial Heat out of $11million, almost snagging $89 million_more but wouldn't give up his (what you would call) worthless technology. He doesn't sound very inept to me. He sounds very wily and if he really is a con artist using LENR as the hook (NOTE that big IF conditional precursor statement...IF If :IF IF) then Industrial Heat did all of us a big disfavor by not taking him down. And so did all those other scientists. They have a duty to us in the public. In particular I am extremely disappointed with the scientists who were involved with the '3rd party report'. They basically sat on their butts and let Rossi run the show and then let someone else write their report for them. No, the embarrassment shouldn't land on Rossi, it should land on those lazy bums.

  • Let’s add another IF to the list. If the e-cat actually works, Rossi is the worst businessman in history and, by any practical metric, is an utter moron. If you were remotely capable of critical thinking with regard to Rossi (and it is obvious that you are not, so there is another useless hypothetical), you would agree.

  • I have a simple question ... it would be fairly straightforward...why doesn't Rossi simply allow an independent third party to take such measurements? Instead he refuses to allow anyone independent to even measure the energy input/output. If he had something, this would be the easiest way to prove it without revealing any IP. His absolute refusal to allow such a measurement, and his ridiculous excuses for avoiding it, tell me has nothing,

    He did. It was called the 'Independent Third Party Report' and was loudly criticized by the skeptics. One of the oddest criticisms was that they didn't open up the box, as you suggested they shouldn't do.



    https://arxiv.org/abs/1305.3913



    Indication of anomalous heat energy production in a reactor device

    Giuseppe Levi, Evelyn Foschi, Torbjörn Hartman, Bo Höistad, Roland Pettersson, Lars Tegnér, Hanno Essén

    (Submitted on 16 May 2013 (v1), last revised 7 Jun 2013 (this version, v3))

    An experimental investigation of possible anomalous heat production in a special type of reactor tube named E-Cat HT is carried out. The reactor tube is charged with a small amount of hydrogen loaded nickel powder plus some additives. The reaction is primarily initiated by heat from resistor coils inside the reactor tube. Measurement of the produced heat was performed with high-resolution thermal imaging cameras, recording data every second from the hot reactor tube. The measurements of electrical power input were performed with a large bandwidth three-phase power analyzer. Data were collected in two experimental runs lasting 96 and 116 hours, respectively. An anomalous heat production was indicated in both experiments. The 116-hour experiment also included a calibration of the experimental set-up without the active charge present in the E-Cat HT. In this case, no extra heat was generated beyond the expected heat from the electric input. Computed volumetric and gravimetric energy densities were found to be far above those of any known chemical source. Even by the most conservative assumptions as to the errors in the measurements, the result is still one order of magnitude greater than conventional energy sources.

    Comments: Appendix on electrical measurements added

    Subjects: General Physics (physics.gen-ph)

    Cite as: arXiv:1305.3913 [physics.gen-ph]

    (or arXiv:1305.3913v3 [physics.gen-ph] for this version)

    Submission history

    From: Hanno Essen [view email]

    [v1] Thu, 16 May 2013 13:09:56 UTC (1,840 KB)

    [v2] Mon, 20 May 2013 12:43:10 UTC (1,238 KB)

    [v3] Fri, 7 Jun 2013 12:53:15 UTC (1,909 KB)

  • Let’s add another IF to the list. If the e-cat actually works, Rossi is the worst businessman in history and, by any practical metric, is an utter moron. If you were remotely capable of critical thinking with regard to Rossi (and it is obvious that you are not, so there is another useless hypothetical), you would agree.

    Why should we add IFs to the existing conditional? Go ahead and address the CURRENT IF.

  • If the e-cat actually works, Rossi is the worst businessman in history and, by any practical metric, is an utter moron.

    Sure, Rossi is a crappy businessman. He says to judge him by the standard of "In Mercato Veritas" and there is zero in Mercato therefore there is zero Veritas.


    But keep in mind that IF (there's that big word again, and I have no doubt that you will not address any conditionals I pose to you, but that's another story) If --again I say IF---IF IF what he has is real then he will disrupt hundreds of billions of dollars of business, well actually $trillions, and all those interests are lined up to take this thing from him. So, such a businessman would be RIGHTFULLY paranoid. One of the greatest businessmen on the planet said "Only the paranoid survive".