His pumps could not supply the circulation to meet his claimed heat
With the low pressure head (less than 2 bars) the pumps could do that. See my experiments.
Rossi E-Cat SK Demo Discussion
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Do you agree that IH was happy to show Woodford the plant and take their money the way Cassarino describes it?
Please show, from the court documents, what you mean by "take their money the way Cassarino describes it". Cassarino did not state or even imply that there was some sort of nefarious motive by IH to take Woodford's money.
The whole point of creating IH was to provide an investment vehicle for investors wanting exposure to high risk, high reward novel clean energy technologies.
What's your point? It seems to be that IH (basically Darden), is evil. Who knows, maybe Darden really is "evil". But there's nothing in Cassarino's testimony that states or implies that.
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With the low pressure head (less than 2 bars) the pumps could do that. See my experiments.Alan, I appreciate that you did your experiments, and that if you push all the pumps to limits outside of their documented range, it might be possible, based on a degraded old pump, to meet the flow rate. Which is rather obviously not how anyone would reasonably design a system if they needed to have precise regulation of flow. Which was the point, and which I had already stated in my post previous to that one:
"complete with dosimetric pumps that look cool with their digital readouts but whose precise measuring capability was useless with flow rates required of an actual working device"
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Well. It's a fact though that IH did want Rossi to believe that there was a test going on when Woodford visited the plant several months into the test.
Actually no, having extensive review of the court documents, I am not aware that that's a fact. It's a fact that Darden testified that before Rossi and E-Cat went to Doral, neither he nor Rossi could demonstrate any excess heat. It's also a fact that he testified that he reluctantly let Rossi move the E-Cat to Doral, mainly because he thought just maybe Johnson Matthey really needed heat for creating platinum sponge. It's a fact that Johnson Matthey was not the customer. Its a fact that Rossi repeatedly claimed that he had a "satisfied customer" on his fake journal website JONP, but that the "satisfied customer" was actually Rossi himself. It's a fact that Woodford had invested $50M prior to the Doral visit. And it's a fact that IH and Woodford visited the plant.
Please show from the court documents the evidence to support your "fact" that "IH did want Rossi to believe that there was a test going on", versus the likely explanation that IH and Woodford wanted to see what was really going on in Doral.
Another fact from the court documents does show that Rossi wanted Bass to show up as the "Chief Engineer" as investors came to visit, and then coached his fake "chief engineer", who had no actual role as a "chief engineer" for a real customer, on what to say to investors. So what we know is that Rossi wanted to show potential investors that there was a real independent "satisfied customer" when there really wasn't. Which is fraudulent.
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Please show from the court documents the evidence to support your "fact" that "IH did want Rossi to believe that there was a test going on".
Quote from Cassarino fileDisplay MoreQ. And what do Ron's notes reflect that J.T. Vaughan
told AEG on August 7, 2015?
A. (Witness reviews document.) Trying to get things
done.
Q. Well, let me ‐‐ let me ask you specifically: Did
J.T. ‐‐ do these notes reflect that J.T. Vaughan
told AEG, in sum or in substance, that Industrial
Heat was trying to support Rossi's efforts?
A. Yes.
Q. Do they say that Industrial ‐‐ do they say that
J.T. Vaughan said that Industrial Heat's goal was
for Mr. Rossi to be successful?
A. Yes.
MR. CHAIKEN: Object to form.
Q. And do they say that Industrial Heat does not have
what they need, and that they need more confidence
than the last time?
A. That's what those notes say.
Q. And does it say that Industrial Heat wants to
avoid a confrontation?
Page 222
A. That's what the notes say.
Q. Okay.
A. (Witness reviews document.) Ah. And ‐‐ and I ‐‐
now ‐‐ it's the last ‐‐ the UK investing team was
coming to visit the plant. And I think that was
part of the conversation that we had with
Industrial Heat; that they told us to be calm,
stay calm; that they ‐‐ the investor group was
coming; they didn't want any waves to happen; and
that they were trying to keep everybody happy for
the investor.
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[Court documents]
Thank you for admitting that the court documents do NOT show that "IH did want Rossi to believe that there was a test going on".
Now we know, based on your own inability to provide evidence, that you just made that statement up. And we can reasonably conclude that this is because it fits with your preconceived idea that their visit was to make Rossi believe that there was a TEST going on, even though that is nowhere stated.
But what the excerpt you provided shows is that they thought Rossi was difficult to deal with, and that they didn't want to set him off.
It is also a fact that Rossi had previously denied IH access to the E-Cat, in breach of the Rental Agreement, which likely explains why they would not want to set him off.
We also now know that you have difficulty separating facts from preconceived notions, at least with regards to Rossi's Doral scam.
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jtomas - The R patented abandonment response was used yet again and that information came from a phone call I had with Craig just after the R'ster filed litigation.
You should also know that IH / investors left Doral with one quote from the investor - "that was contrived".
You're not going to be allowed to get away with your fictional interpretations - there is too much truth to the contrary that normal brains can understand.
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Well, that was exactly what he did in the Doral plant. It's described in the Cassarino file. It seems to me IH definitely thought they were showing a working device? Otherwise I guess they would be guilty of defrauding Woodford, right? Not being able to replicate without the help of Rossi it is a total different story. (although maybe Brilluoin could be considered a replication by now of the original design) I do not doubt they had problems doing that due to both lack of tech competence (being mainly finance guys) and due to the possible Flintstone factor. Also I do believe you seriously underestimate the difficulties in raising this kind of money for a project like this.
IH
What makes you think "IH definitely thought they were showing a working device"? I've read all the deposition documents (which in retrospect is somewhat pathetic and embarrasing). Rossi had already previously denied IH access to their own E-Cat in Doral (in violation of the "Rental Agreement"). Do you not think it likely, based on the fact that Darden testified that they never saw over-unity in NC and was reluctant to let Rossi move it to Doral, that he was skeptical? Does it not make sense to you that he likely voiced those concerns to Woodford? And does it not make sense to you that visiting Doral would be a prudent thing to do if Darden and Woodford had millions invested in this technology but thought that Rossi was trying to pull a fast one on them?
Jtomas: "Otherwise ... they would be guilty of defrauding Woodford, right?"
No, only in your preconceived but confused thinking. Woodford had already invested $50M. This is important. They had a vested interest in finding out what Rossi was up to in Doral, as did IH (who owned the E-Cat). How do you conclude that by visiting Doral, IH would be guilty of defrauding Woodford when they had already invested? That idea might makes sense if IH was trying to get Woodford to invest more money. But there's no evidence from Cassarino or anywhere else in the court documents that IH was trying to do that.
jtomas: I do believe you seriously underestimate the difficulties in raising this kind of money for a project like this.
Believe what you want. You don't spend most of your time hanging around high net worth individuals and VC firms. Darden does. If he had compelling evidence from Rossi, he would have no problem raising that money. In fact, IH already has more than 100 million now according to filings. So again, you're just making that up.
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The contract did stipulate this, but the report was invalid, having fake data and physically impossible claims. Such a report cannot fulfil a contract.
Invalid argument from silence, since the trial never made it all the way through to determine if a contract was fulfilled. Indeed, if your contention were really unequivocally true, IH would have moved forward rather than settled. But that's also probably an invalid argument from silence, saying what someone WOULD HAVE done...
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But, here we are.
But why? Those niggly lingering doubts old friend. It will all be out soon enough.
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But why? Those niggly lingering doubts old friend. It will all be out soon enough.
Hey IHFB, good to hear from you. You're right, I stand convicted. There's something about it all that can draw me in. Which is probably why we're all here. Except YOU, stranger!
But here you are too, friend!
But regarding "it will all be out soon enough", I wonder how long is "too long" for you IF there continues to be no credible evidence of any customers, given that Rossi has claimed he is "open for business selling heat" (controlled over the internet from his condo headquarters in Miami) with his E-Skat?
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When you read the arguments made by Rossi believers you begin to realize what their world view must be. Basically, their ground truth is that the e-cat is real and what Rossi says is correct. If those things are a priori true, then all other things - counterfactuals, the laws of physics, logic, common sense, etc - become mutable. The results are what we observe.
Really? This is your assessment? Why should anyone listen to you, since you put it forth that your own comments do not uphold science? Your world view seems to be that Rossi represents LENR , which is nonsense because LENR was replicated more than 150 times before Rossi even showed up. There is practically no reason to listen to you on these subjects.
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Instead, he submitted the Penon report, which is proof the machine did not work and that Rossi is a fraud.
If it was PROOF then the legal case would have been a simple slamdunk. But it wasn't, so that Penon report was not PROOF.
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I suppose the only reason he wrote it (and pretended that Penon wrote it) was that he hoped to bamboozle a stupid jury in Florida with it.
Didn't Penon show up in court, ready to testify? Abd was full of all kinds of speculation that he was a no-show. I think Dewey was practically banking on it.
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fraudster litigating fraud
You keep saying that kinda stuff and yet it was you who failed to put him away as a fraudster. If it was all such a slamdunk, he'd be in jail, which is where he would deserve to be assuming all the stuff you say about him. So how is it you failed to put away such an obvious fraud? Incompetence.
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PfD may be onto something. We may also be seeing the manifestation and quantum replication (able to be in multiple SPs at the same time) of UDRs (Ultra Dense Rossions) as part of this discovery. They are clearly only able to manifest as a surface phenomena (surface of Planet Rossi that is). Perhaps we can also locate any Planet Rossi pious-ons as we get closer to the altar as part of this exploration. We may see some familiar faces (or at least names) if we can get far enough into this investigation.
Actually what we're seeing is FAILon particles trying to pretend like they are COMPetent particles. The failons never seem to do what they claim, like neutrinos zipping through loose matter. And these failons are nasty little buggers, constantly emitting ACCUSaton radiation.
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Well, if anyone thinks IH were the real villains, they'll be glad it cost them millions of dollars!
IMO, they were just gullible and somewhat incompetent.
I'll be writing to Woodford - and others-, pointing out that they could do with a scientifically competent skeptic among their advisors and analysts. I'll do it for a few hundred K a pop, and potentially save them millions! (actually I might take myself seriously - my track record in rejecting dodgy inventors is rather good, and the couple I thought would do pretty well actually did so, although the price was too high for us at the time)
That is a good plan. Any inventor who refuses to allow someone like that to view their demo is probably hiding some magic tricks, or he's incredibly paranoid about intellectual property thieves. How would you convince a paranoid that you're only gonna test the device, not probe it for IP secrets?
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What's this Flintstones meme all about?
It was a Flintstone episode where Fred lost his job but the company was forced to rehire him because he had wired up his earthmover dinosaur in such a way that he was the only one who could operate it.
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Couldn’t possibly be that it doesn’t work?
The Pons-Fleischmann Anomalous Heat Effect has been replicated more than 150 times. But it sure as heck isn't an easy effect to generate, it seems only the top electrochemists of the day were able to do so, as well as some folks fluent in calorimetry.
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Sad the KevMo clearly didn't get enough time off. He can't seem to interpret facts from the record in the same way that non-Planet Rossions can see.
