Cue the Murray flow tests diagram with an inclined water meter...
Prominent Gamma/L 0232 Flow Rate Test
-
-
You also didn't believe that the pumps could pump what they can.
18 Prominent pumps cannot pump 36000 L/day even though that is what is claimed for most of the final 4 months of the trial.
-
Sorry to do this to you Jed, but you did. The pump flow rate was a big deal. And you were right in the middle of it.
You misunderstand. In the message you point to, I said:
"In any case, the rest of the spurious heat is easily explained by problems with the flow meter. The flow meter was not working, and cannot work. The pumps could not have produced that high flow rate."
I did not mean "the pumps were physically incapable of producing that high flow rate." I mean they couldn't have done that because there wasn't that much water flowing through. I did not know about those pumps, so I was unaware of the claim that they did not have enough pumping power to move that much water.
This is like saying I couldn't have carried 600 lbs of onions into my mother-in-law's kitchen, because there is no place to put that many onions in the kitchen. I did, in fact, carry 600 pounds of onions in giant paper bags into the barn next to the kitchen. I am capable of that! (My in-laws were farmers, with hundreds of onions.)
-
Back up units were always part of the mix. Read the record.
Back up pumps? I don't recall that. I don't think so. Where?
-
Back up pumps? I don't recall that. I don't think so. Where?
Attached to the 50-odd Domestic Water Heaters installed in the other half of the Plant, no doubt.
-
I did not know about those pumps, so I was unaware of the claim that they did not have enough pumping power to move that much water.
I don't even know how you can say this with a straight face. There are pages of comments of you making statements here that suggest otherwise.
-
Rossi's explanation for the heater strips was that his graphite or platinum sponge processes required constant heat and the strips were backup in case the ECat heating was ever interrrupted
It is hard to imagine that someone would think that heat strips wraped around 10 feet or so of 1 to 2" steel pipe could replace 1 MEGAWATTS of heated steam. Just imagine the electrical connections needed and the heat transfer rates
-
QuoteLet's say the water was pressurized (even though the evidence suggests otherwise)
The water had to be pressurized. It would not have flowed otherwise. Pumps always produce pressure, and plumbing always resists a flow. It is not clear how much pressure. The Penon report it not helpful. It says the pressure was 0 bar (a vacuum).
-
I don't even know how you can say this with a straight face. There are pages of comments of you making statements here that suggest otherwise.
Suggest otherwise? Do you speak language? I said the flow rate was lower, so the pumps were not pumping that much. Do you think pumps can move 100 gallons/min but only 20 gallons/min come through the pipes? Where does the rest go? Into a black hole?
Sometimes you say the damnedest things! How can you misunderstand a statement that pumps do not pump more water than what is measured flowing through the system?
-
The water had to be pressurized. It would not have flowed otherwise. Pumps always produce pressure, and plumbing always resists a flow. It is not clear how much pressure. The Penon report it not helpful. It says the pressure was 0 bar (a vacuum).
Round and round we rehash. There would likely be a slight vacuum due to the head on the return path.
-
Suggest otherwise? Do you speak language? I said the flow rate was lower, so the pumps were not pumping that much. Do you think pumps can move 100 gallons/min but only 20 gallons/min come through the pipes? Where does the rest go? Into a black hole?
Sometimes you say the damnedest things! How can you misunderstand a statement that pumps do not pump more water than what is measured flowing through the system?
Here's the thing Jed. You will never admit that you were wrong--ever. I learned that about you long ago. I could pin point to several quotes from you that would directly contradict what you are saying now. I'll spare you (and others) the shame this time.
-
There would likely be a slight vacuum due to the head on the return path.
On a gravity return pipe filled with liquid flowing water and air? That would be a slight vacuum. Very slight.
-
On a gravity return pipe filled with liquid flowing water and air? That would be a slight vacuum. Very slight.
There was a pump on the other side that pumped the condensate.
-
10 Q. How close were you to the pipes in the
11 container?
12 A. Within a foot.
13 Q. Have you ever been next to pipes that are
14 carrying steam?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Would that be in the navy?
17 A. 600 pound steam and 1200 pound steam.
18 Q. Are you familiar with the type of
19 insulation that is on -- I'm sorry, let me re-ask
20 that question.
21 Exhibit 17 I'm noticing not all the pipes
22 have insulation, correct, only the top pipes?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Did you -- how hot was it in this
25 container?Page 95
1 A. It was warm. That was it -
The mid-October Penon report showing the current draws of the BF units occurs multiple times in the court documents. I don't recall ever seeing an extra page showing a BF 4 unit in operation. I will look more thoroughly though. If you look at the page there actually is room to include a fourth BF diagram.
I note once again that if you look at the photos of the BF units that were taken on the day that the Doral test ended you can see that the plumbing to the bottom BF has been rearranged so that it is no longer connected to its pumps. The insulation has also been taken off the pumping and you can see that there is no meniscus in the sight glass. These are all consistent with the bottom unit being BF4 and having been inactive for a while at that point.
Here a snippet from the Barry West deposition. Unfortunately page 97 was never uploaded to pacer.
However, I think it’s preety clear from this, that one of the “Big Frankies” failed very early on and not used then. This is also consistent with the el. power schematic drawing from Penon (only showing 3 BF).
QuoteTotal current for the 3 BF units shown in the Oct 13 Penon report is 92.55 Amps which gives 10.18 kW power at 110V. The gap is therefore 1.29 kW. I'm not sure exactly where in the system the 11.47 kW that Fabiani records is measured.
Probably the 1,3 kW gap is for 18 dosing pumps .
-
Here's the thing Jed. You will never admit that you were wrong--ever. I learned that about you long ago.
Except for all the times I have admitted I was wrong, such as in my initial evaluations of Rossi, where I took him seriously. I am quoted in the book "Impossible Invention" so I can't escape from it or deny it. But I wouldn't if I could.
Or here:
https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJreportonmi.pdf
You were saying?
I could pin point to several quotes from you that would directly contradict what you are saying now.
You might find quotes from me about the pumps after the facts about them emerged. I am now aware that they probably cannot move that much water. I have not looked closely at that. I don't need to; there is a mountain of other evidence proving the claim is fraudulent, starting with the fact that the people in the room were not cooked.
However, in my initial evaluations here, I did not know that the pumps were not powerful enough, and that makes no difference to my analysis. The only things I studied were the water temperature, an estimate of water pressure, and my estimate of the flow meter error.
-
You might find quotes from me about the pumps after the facts about them emerged. I am now aware that they probably cannot move that much water. I have not looked closely at that. I don't need to; there is a mountain of other evidence proving the claim is fraudulent, starting with the fact that the people in the room were not cooked.
However, in my initial evaluations here, I did not know that the pumps were not powerful enough, and that makes no difference to my analysis. The only things I studied were the water temperature, an estimate of water pressure, and my estimate of the flow meter error.
What kind of gobbledygook is this? What you are saying is nonsensical. Your prior stated position on the pumps is that the pumps were not powerful enough. Alan's numbers show that they are. You have twisted all your statements into an incoherent wad.
-
There was a pump on the other side that pumped the condensate.
Was there? It is not shown in the Penon report. It says only the water is "conveyed by pumps in the units E-cat."
http://coldfusioncommunity.net…/01/0197.03_Exhibit_3.pdf
I'll take your word for that pump on the other side. I might have heard that detail but I forgot it. Anyway, water that is not under pressure does not move, and all those disputed pumps with picturesque names such as Frankie must have put pressure on the water.
-
Was there? It is not shown in the Penon report. It says only the water is "conveyed by pumps in the units E-cat."
Yes, and in fact, we have had this same debate before. Deja vue?
Penon's report did not address anything that happened on the other side of the wall.
-
What kind of gobbledygook is this? What you are saying is nonsensical. Your prior stated position on the pumps is that the pumps were not powerful enough.
No, my stated position is that a flow meter sitting in a half empty pipe registers far more water than actually flows through the pipe. You can confirm that in the manual for this particular flow meter, and for many other meters of this type. Also, my position is that if you look at the photos of the tanks and pipes, and the schematic, you can see the tank was not airtight. Therefore that was a gravity return pipe.
Even if we believe the flow rate figures in the Penon report, that pipe was carrying only a small fraction of its capacity from gravity alone. Look up the size of the pipe and the gravity capacity in an on-line calculator such as this one:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox…volume-weight-d_1734.html
So it had to be only partially full. Penon's figures are far too high, meaning the pipe was even more empty than those figures indicate.
That was my analysis, and I am sticking to it. The fact that the pumps could not have pumped that much is icing on the cake. It is more proof of fraud, but I don't need it.
