Rossi E-Cat SK Demo Discussion

Because it was all hot air (or Scotch Mist)!

Quote from Paradigmnoia

What one should notice is that Rossi has never demonstrated work being done with his steam.

He supposedly makes all this steam, then vents it or chills it somehow to the atmosphere, but never shows it doing anything substantial.

Just to note the obvious:

To give him credit: it does seem to generate a lot of hot air.

Since the SK demo was so impressive, this thread discussing it is now entirely about Doral. The e-cat revolution marches forward.

You don’t have to obey the laws of physics so long as you don’t get caught.

Quote from Alan Smith

It is worth noting that reading them is much cheaper than employing a personal trainer.

I am doing physical therapy at Stanford Medical for my left knee total replacement and I made sure a picked a very attractive therapist. If I have to be tortured, I want an attractive torturer. I have asked to have her for the pt for my right knee, which is going under the knife in 17 days (and then we do my back).

Quote from JedRothwell

Ah. So I guess you mean the gist of the case must be presented during discovery, but additional supporting evidence can be introduced during the trial.

If you want to admit it at trial, absent extreme extenuating circumstances, you had better have disclosed it during discovery. Extenuating circumstances, e.g., you discover a new witness that either was unavailable or which you could not reasonably have known about prior to trial. If you could have found that witness through reasonable due diligence or if you knew about the witness and didn't disclose their existence as part of discovery to try to surprise the other side -- surprise is yours because the judge is likely to rule not admissible. And as part of the pre-trial exchanges, you have to disclose the name of every witness you intend to call (with a few exceptions) and the gist of what they are going to testify about. Judges reallllllly don't like ambush tactics, and they can issue a whole litany of sanctions against you when you try, ranging from not letting a witness testify to ruling that you lose on a particular issue, regardless of the evidence presented, to ruling that you lose the entire case regardless of the evidence, all the while assessing monetary sanctions against client and lawyer. If a lawyer files a motion and doesn't include in the motion case law that is negative to what they are arguing, they can be sanctioned. Courts, especially federal courts, take this type of stuff very seriously and you don't want to piss off a federal judge -- if you do, make sure you bring a toothbrush, slip on shoes, pants that don't need a belt and your checkbook.

Quote from woodworker

If you want to admit it at trial, absent extreme extenuating circumstances, you had better have disclosed it during discovery. Extenuating circumstances, e.g., . . .

So, you are saying it isn't like Perry Mason or "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo." I am disenchanted.

So, the glowy thing with hoses going to the bottom of a contraption, located above the neutron counters is the SK cylinder?

Quote from Wyttenbach

Once more the peak at 336.9nm is absolute in agreement with Ag I 2P0 lowest state. This only tells that AR now knows what LERN drives...

Wyttenbach.

An interesting snippet a bit back there in the thread. Curious about this. But I guess it will become clear in time.

It’s also curious what’s exciting the atoms to produce those lines. Normally it requires a a higher energy source to excit or remove the inner electrons so that the emission lines can be generated.

They are apparently persistent so I wonder what causes that.... X Rays? high energy electron or ion bombardment?

Would the supplied power be sufficient to drive the process that generates those those peaks I wonder and if so if it can account for the intensity?

Bruce__H interesting exchange their with LDM thanks to both of you for that.

A optically thick plasma would have more a flat profile I think but as it becomes more thick it start to resemble a BB at the sides but stil with a flat top ultimately when it is optical opaque it peaks somewhere between those lines. As in the solar plasma. A plasma is not solid so is not constant in temperature through out it’s observed dearth especially in the less optically thick region so it will have a differing profile with variations of time due to this and any density fluctuations in the surrounding slightly thinner plasma

So I agree fully with LDM and his conclusions here. I would not use Weins law on that broad spectrum profile either. Unless there are occasions when it clearly only shows the spectrum from dense core. And even then I’m not sure yet it is proved to us to be optically opaque there.

What we can determine though, if that part of the spectrum is thermal in origin is that the temperature must correspond to a wavelength between the edges of that broad spectrum... and perhaps something from the width. The over all intensity and itradiance though would need a more complex analysis. It’s interesting LDM point about it still having a similar derivation though.... if we know the temperature....

Quote from StephenC

Bruce__H interesting exchange their with LDM thanks to both of you for that.

A optically thick plasma would have more a flat profile I think but as it becomes more thick it start to resemble a BB at the sides but stil with a flat top ultimately when it is optical opaque it peaks somewhere between those lines. As in the solar plasma. A plasma is not solid so is not constant in temperature through out it’s observed dearth especially in the less optically thick region so it will have a differing profile with variations of time due to this and any density fluctuations in the surrounding slightly thinner plasma

So I agree fully with LDM and his conclusions here. I would not use Weins law on that broad spectrum profile either. Unless there are occasions when it clearly only shows the spectrum from dense core. And even then I’m not sure yet it is proved to us to be optically opaque there.

What we can determine though is that the temperature must be between correspond to a wavelength between the edges of that broad spectrum... and perhaps something from the width. The over all intensity and itradiance though would need a more complex derivation. It’s interesting LDM point about it still having a similar derivation though.... if we know the temperature....

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I had the impression that the right hand edge of the broad part of the spectrum might be defined by the response limitations of the spectrometer. Not sure now where I got that from.

Theory aside, I am sure that you can integrate numerically under the spectrum but I don't see how this can be related to irradiance or intensity unless one knows the aperture of the spectrometer, its distance from the source, and its response characteristics. The reason a blackbody is nice is that it allows you to do an end run around all of that.

Bruce__H yup I agree with your point about quantifing the irradiance.

Edit:

Especially the last point about the response

Regarding aperture I think he indicated that it was 1cm2 and centered on the 3mm by 1cm core.

Regarding placement. I asked him if for thermal and saturation reasons it is not in side the heat exchanger itself but rather outside but looking through a small window. He confirmed this. I think it reasonable to assume that window is 1cm^2

He also confirmed the spectrometer is inside the box and more distant from it. The box I think is about 45 cm wide and deep. So we can estimate the distance of the sensor from the core to be between 10cm and 20cm I think. At this distance we can treat it like a radial radiation from a point like source I think

If we ignore any other filters. This I think indicates between 5 and 20 W is passing into the spectrometer depending on its exact distance. I wonder if this amount of flux is reasonable or not?

Hmm I suppose it could also be looking through a pinhole window and still get the spectrum from 1cm^2 if suitably placed... so I’m not sure if that above estimate helps.... it might also serve as a pinhole camera of the contents though which would be cool.

I suppose the refresh of the video gives an indicator of the counts over a particular time frame.

I’m not sure how we could estimate the response though. Do you have any idea what is typical?

The spectrometer uses a single strand optical fibre probe that can be attenuated by a calibrated restricted aperture, and by a selection of gratings to be used within the spectrometer (model dependent) exclusive of any extra filtering that might be applied.

The standard range is from 350 to 1100 nm.

Quote from Paradigmnoia

The spectrometer uses a single strand optical fibre probe that can be attenuated by a calibrated restricted aperture, and by a selection of gratings to be used within the spectrometer (model dependent) exclusive of any extra filtering that might be applied.

The standard range is from 350 to 1100 nm.

What does standard range mean? All of the large sharp spectral peaks of the SK lie below 350 nm.

Bruce__H ,

The standard measurement range of the StellarNet spectrometer Rossi uses.

Now, some older versions of the GreenWave did go as low as 300 nm. I suspect that the 300-350 nm part of the spectrum is not very well characterized (probably strongly attenuated) by the GreenWave spectrometer, as is the case for the 1100 nm end, where the software looks for noise and will offer (with a pop-up box) to reduce the long wave end of the display when it finds it.

Paradigmnoia thanks a lot for that I’m not really that expert on spectrometer usage. This is interesting information for me.

Do these kind of optical fibers also pass UV light?

On The other hand would such an arrangement allow sufficient attenuation of the intense UV light?

Did they say they use this arrangement somewhere?

I wonder what the fiber crossection is etc. I suppose your suggestion is that the diffraction gratings are then being used to diffuse the signal as well as diffracting the observed spectrum?

In the other hand the number of counts per 5s frame did not seem that high to me. So I wonder if the emission was also attenuated else where by something.

Sorry a lot of questions but genuinely curious

I like the pin hole camera idea it might explain the image ( like the spectrometer a camera could not be inside the heat exchanger either)

But the intensity would still be quite large at the optimum aperture of few hundred um.

On the other hand a smaller aperture of a few um would produce diffraction and a blurring image perhaps with chromatic effects. Maybe a bit like that blurry image seen,

The spectrometer (Or fiber arrangement) would then be focused on the ceneter of Airy disk.

On the other hand a pin hole would be thd natural place to put the fiber if it is narrow enough

Ok a lot of guess work there but it might fit what we see