Rossi E-Cat SK Demo Discussion

  • Former French President Pompidou who died in 1973 said: "There are three ways to ruin yourself ; women, gambling and research. The most enjoyable is with women, the fastest is with gambling, but the safest is with research."


    Spotted by J-P Biberian

    I empathize. I spent all my money on top shelf booze, fast cars, and loose women. The rest I wasted.

  • Kevmo,


    In reading your posts I am starting to get the impression your IH/Rossi/ERV/$10 million/IP transfer/Doral/$89 million timeline is off. Just to make sure we are all on the same page; the $10 mil was paid, and IP transfered in June 2013, after the *first* ERV (Penon) Report showed the Validation Test was successfully completed. That all took place in Italy.


    In Feb 2015 (19 months later), the Doral test/commercial heat sale began. It ended 1 year later in Feb 2016. A month later the *second* ERV (Penon) Report was made public, and showed the 1 year test was successful. The next month, Rossi initiated his lawsuit against IH for non-payment of the final $89 mil.


    Hope that helps.

  • Interesting and fun analogy. To bring it up to speed, you need to have the name of the company interested in the whizbang can opener , it should be Industrial Can Openers , Inc. There's a certain level of assumption in the name that IC should be able to assess some new whizbang IC technology.


    So, why did IC put up with all that nonsense? And why did they pay $10M for fake dinosaur egg Can OPener IP? And why did they ask for more of that worthless Canopener IP when they countersued the whizbang mercurial "inventor"?

  • I am starting to get the impression your IH/Rossi/ERV/$10 million/IP transfer/Doral/$89 million timeline is off. Just to make sure we are all on the same page the $10 mil was paid, and IP transfered in June 2013, after the *first* ERV (Penon) Report showed the Validation Test was successfully completed. That all took place in Italy.

    ***Was there some kind of public announcement of the $10Mil validation at the time? It would have been an inductive touchpoint and I think I missed it, having been almost ignoring Rossi according to his own In Mercato Veritas approach.




    In Feb 2015 (19 months later), the Doral test/commercial heat sale began. It ended 1 year later in Feb 2016.

    ***During this test, IH told Jed that the device did not work. I'm wondering when that happened. When did the two parties experience a falling out?


    A month later the *second* ERV (Penon) Report was made public showed the 1 year test was successful.

    ***Presumably the INvalidation of the Validation Report is aimed at the 2nd test? Or is it aimed at both tests? The INvalidation report was by Murray and entered into the court case docket.



    The next month, Rossi initiated his lawsuit against IH for non-payment of the final $89 mil.

    ***IH countersued asking for his IP. Did they or did they not obtain transfer of the IP after it was Validated according to that first report?: They obviously paid for it. What IP was IH countersuing for?




    Hope that helps.

    ***It's good to get the timeline & record straight.

  • ***Was there some kind of public announcement of the $10Mil validation at the time? It would have been an inductive touchpoint and I think I missed it, having been almost ignoring Rossi according to his own In Mercato Veritas approach.


    No, the first we started learning of these things, was when the lawsuit was filed and documents made public.



    ***Presumably the INvalidation of the Validation Report is aimed at the 2nd test? Or is it aimed at both tests? The INvalidation report was by Murray and entered into the court case docket.


    I think you are conflating two reports that were 2 1/2 years apart, and had nothing to do with each other.


    The "Validation Test" (VT) took place on Apr 30 2013. It was an acceptance test. If Penon deemed it successful, and after the hand over of the IP, IH would release the $10 mil from escrow. It was "successful" (controversial though), the IP turned over, and the money was transferred in June 2013.


    Murray wrote a report *after* the 1 year test ended in Feb 2016. That is over 2 1/2 years *after* the VT, and as I said...had nothing to do with the VT. Murray wrote that report to refute Penon's ERV Report, which concluded the 1 year test (Guaranteed Performance Test) that took place in Doral was successful.


    ***IH countersued asking for his IP. Did they or did they not obtain transfer of the IP after it was Validated according to that first report?: They obviously paid for it. What IP was IH countersuing for?


    I do not remember if IH ever countersued for the IP...Anyone remember? They did not need to do that as I recall, because they pretty much owned it (IP) already. They did countersue however, and accused him of violating Florida fraud laws, or something like that.

  • The "Validation Test" (VT) took place on Apr 30 2013. It was an acceptance test. If Penon deemed it successful, and after the hand over of the IP, IH would release the $10 mil from escrow. It was "successful" (controversial though), the IP turned over, and the money was transferred in June 2013.


    Murray wrote a report *after* the 1 year test ended in Feb 2016. That is over 2 1/2 years *after* the VT, and as I said...had nothing to do with the VT. Murray wrote that report to refute Penon's ERV Report, which concluded the 1 year test (Guaranteed Performance Test) that took place in Doral was successful.

    So the original Validation report has never been challenged?

  • Yes they did, but only after Rossi filed his lawsuit 2 1/2 years later. And they did not contest on technical grounds, but on being lied to by Rossi about his reason for wanting to reduce the number of Ecats used for the VT.

    As an inductive touchpoint, that would make Rossi's IP uncontested on technical grounds, at least the first Validation for which $10M was paid. Trying to get the dinosaur Earth Mover to work without Fred Flintstone at the controls, well that's a completely different matter and is not addressed in that contract.

  • As an inductive touchpoint, that would make Rossi's IP uncontested on technical grounds, at least the first Validation for which $10M was paid. Trying to get the dinosaur Earth Mover to work without Fred Flintstone at the controls, well that's a completely different matter and is not addressed in that contract.


    Actually, there is an anti-Flintstone at the controls clause:

    .

  • Actually, there is an anti-Flintstone at the controls clause:

    .

    Nice Catch. It says that both sides "currently contemplate" that Rossi will be CTO but it didn't obligate IH in that vein. There appears to have been a major falling out between Rossi and IH. I think it was soon after the $10M was paid. If Rossi was scamming them, why not take off at that time? Perhaps he thought he could scam them for more money? If the gig is up and he's found out as a scam artist, there's no more reason for him to spend money on lawyers, and also there's no reason for IH to be asking for his IP in the countersuit.

  • Nice Catch. It says that both sides "currently contemplate" that Rossi will be CTO but it didn't obligate IH in that vein. There appears to have been a major falling out between Rossi and IH. I think it was soon after the $10M was paid. If Rossi was scamming them, why not take off at that time? Perhaps he thought he could scam them for more money? If the gig is up and he's found out as a scam artist, there's no more reason for him to spend money on lawyers, and also there's no reason for IH to be asking for his IP in the countersuit.


    Recall that Rossi was bragging that he was Chief Scientist with his major industrial partner way back in 2013. One of his activities was evaluating competitor's patents.

    I'll pop a quote in below once Rossilivecat/all finishes loading.


    1. Bernie Koppenhofer June 20th, 2014 at 12:08 PM

      Dr Rossi: Wouldn’t the roll out of the E-Cat be faster and more effective if IH would have many more partners in all areas of product introduction? Thank you again for your time.

    2. Andrea Rossi June 20th, 2014 at 12:21 PM

      Bernie Koppenhofer:

      I am not involved in commercial issues, being in a position of Chief Scientist with IH.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.


      1. Andrea Rossi March 11th, 2014 at 11:18 AM

        Anonymous:

        I too hope you are well.

        A- the third party test is going on. There will be no updates until the publication of the report.

        B- my position of chief scientist of Industrial Heat does not involve me in commercial issues. I know strong activity is in course for what concerns the industrialization.

        Warm Regards,

        A.R.


    1. Andrea Rossi February 12th, 2014 at 6:42 PM

      Frank Acland:

      With Industrial Heat we are making an important work of R&D, validation and industrialization. We are a strong team. The impact of the partnership has been and is extremely productive. About the results, I prefer to wait the results of the R&D and validation work in course. In Industrial Heat I am the chief scientist and as such I can talk about the results only after the validation in course will have been consolidated, based upon long term rigorous measurements.

      The results could be positive, as we have reason to hope, but also negative. We have still a lot of work to do, and we are making a lot of work.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.


    1. Andrea Rossi December 29th, 2013 at 10:46 PM

      Mike Phalen:

      We already have licensed our technology to our USA Partner. If they can be interested or not, in future, to sell sub licenses is not my task to understand. I am the chief scientist and have not commercial duties.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.


    1. Frank Acland December 3rd, 2013 at 8:02 AM

      Dear Andrea,

      In your new organization, do you hold a position in a decision-making body — such as a board of directors — or are you now simply an employee of the organization?

      Many thanks,

      Frank Acland

    2. Andrea Rossi December 3rd, 2013 at 9:31 AM

      Frank Acland:

      I am the chief scientist.

      Warm Regards

      A.R.




    etc...

  • Maybe they had a falling out over that line of responsibility.


    This is the last one I could find.


    1. Andrea Rossi January 7th, 2015 at 3:31 AM

      Caroline Collini:

      As the chief scientist of the Team, I am not the right guy to receive that kind of questions.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.


    And the first I can find:


    1. Andrea Rossi December 19th, 2012 at 10:57 PM

      Dear Koen Vandewalle:

      Thank you.

      I remain in the position of Chief Scientist.

      Of course with the Partner we will increase the spin.

      The report of the test just made will be important.

      The informatic is important too.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

  • His major industrial partner turned out to be himself, in a pretend company. So, you are saying he had a falling out with himself. Interesting!

    His major partner was IH. His major customer was Johnson Mathey, who it would appear was himself. But at any rate, I didn't say it, I was quoting someone else.


    Reminds me of a post that you put up once about Rossi (at least I think it was you). Rossi was under indictment in Italy for defrauding his investors. It was proven that there were no other investors, just himself. So he was literally under indictment for defrauding himself. How's that there Italian Justice System, eh? Real effective against the Mafia.