FP's 30 years later: how much has LENR progressed?

  • I sat next to Robert Duncan at the Colloquium and asked him about the research. Unfortunately he said he couldn't say anything at this time, but he hopes he can at some point soon. I did not ask why, but let it go. I asked him if he would do a short interview on video for the doc, and he was hesitant, but I told him the questions - all about general sociological stuff - and he agreed. (So now I've got statements from him from ICCF-18 in 2013 and the Colloquium in 2019! - both times he spoke about the character of scientific research in the most elevated terms. I can't wait to put all my video together for this doc.) Anthropocene and I both got video of the same interviews (in some cases) - they were so helpful to me - so you will most likely see a few quotes from Robert Duncan in the video they will produce much sooner.


    Great to hear Ruby. It is a good sign he attended.


    BTW: Alan and I will open up a private conversation with you in a few days to kick around a few ideas. All the staff is on board to helping you out in every which way we can.

  • DOS and a commercial Lenr reactor are not really comparable..


    one is software which can be developed in an airconditioned room.

    the other is hard hard hardware...its more comparable to semiconductor development which as Jed said.. took decades, was interdisciplinary,, and cost megabucks.

    one is software which can be developed in an airconditioned room.

    the other is hard hard hardware...its more comparable to semiconductor development which as Jed said.. took decades, was interdisciplinary,, and cost megabucks.

    ***I'm aware of the differences and I'm trying to find a suitable analogy for LENR. Let's see, maybe we can see you deliver what you think is a suitable analogy, and then we can all shoot it down and where would we all be? In the same intellectual spot as before. So what's the point?


    Go ahead, deliver your own "suitable analogy". Keep that air conditioned softness in mind.

  • Go ahead, deliver your own "suitable analogy". Keep that air conditioned softness in mind.


    Suitable analogy

    Semiconductor development from Schockley et al 1945 to Intel 8088 1979- 34 years

    $ equivalent in 2019 ... megabucks..


    ,, that is leaving out the complication of laboratories equipped with protection from radiation ..

    not 400 nm uv.. but 50 +keV gamma

  • Suitable analogy

    Here's why the semiconductor thing is not a suitable analogy: Everyone KNEW that silicon was a semiconductor. It took quite a while and a lot of money to get semicons up to par where we could fit millions of them on a single chip, but no one doubted that it could be done. Even as far back as the 1950s, the silicon pioneers could see easily that at the very least, thousands of these transistors would be able to fit on small area chips.


    But for patent protection, semiconductors are a very suitable analogy because even within the last few years, there have been multiple cases of Chinese or Taiwanese semiconductor fabs stealing wholesale Intellectual Property. Even after decades of development, multi$Billion companies still are not protected by the patent system. How can a small inventor have confidence that his own patents would be protected internationally? He can't.


    We keep going back to the Wright brothers between 1903 and 1908, where the scientific luminaries and skeptopaths of their day continued to call the Wrights to be frauds until they demonstrated the device to large crowds in the US and France and hence, sold airplanes to the US military. And sure enough, patents weren't much protection for the Wright brothers.



    Right now we're trying to find a suitable analogy of a company that would sell into every LENR provider out there, once LENR boxes become available. Someone who would be the Microsoft of LENR. Try to come up with a suitable analogy.

  • Here's why the semiconductor thing is not a suitable analogy: Everyone KNEW that silicon was a semiconductor

    In regards your effortless rhetoric ... silicon... was not the first choice .. germanium was

    it took a lot of experimental work and years to switchover to silicon

    and a rebellion from Schockley's autism. and there were doubts and disputes all along the way.


    "On February 13, 1948 another team member, John N. Shive, built a point contact transistor with bronze contacts on the front and back of thin wedge of germanium, proving that holes could diffuse through bulk germanium ...." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shockley


    Someone who would be the Microsoft of LENR.

    Rhetoric only..smooth though

    I doubt whether the acquisitive , secretive, anticompetitive Microsoft model would work with LENR..or be beneficial to the world

    https://www.gq.com/story/young…was-an-angry-office-bully

    I remember using a GUI on Macs in1985 when MS was still doing DOS,non GUI.

    with MS ,1975, Gates was picking the fruit of 30 years of hardware research.

    in competition with other pickers.. he just outpicked and outfoxed the others

    LENR is absolutely greenfields stuff...



    I'd go with whatever Russ George decides

    I feel more for salmon than for humans.

  • Rhetoric only..smooth though

    ***Nothing particularly smooth about your weird rhetoric of "I feel more for salmon than for humans." Even Jesus ate fish.



    [email protected] wrote:

    Here's why the semiconductor thing is not a suitable analogy: Everyone KNEW that silicon was a semiconductor



    In regards your effortless rhetoric ... silicon... was not the first choice .. germanium was

    ***The only problem with you pointing this out is that it's irrelevant to the discussion at hand, which is that we're searching for a technology analogy that will sell into LENR regardless of who's producing LENR boxes. Just like everyone at the time knew that silicon was a semiconductor, they also KNEW that germanium was a semiconductor and that thousands of those transistors would soon fit on a single chip. It was utterly foreseeable, as foreseeable as getting an airplane to fly faster than 150MPH in 1910.


    it took a lot of experimental work and years to switchover to silicon

    ***Again, irrelevant to the discussion at hand.


    and a rebellion from Schockley's autism. and there were doubts and disputes all along the way.

    ***Irrelevant.




    [email protected] wrote:

    Someone who would be the Microsoft of LENR.


    I doubt whether the acquisitive , secretive, anticompetitive Microsoft model would work with LENR..or be beneficial to the world

    ***Why? They sold their junk to everyone who was pushing a microcomputer and made a ton of money. Today I'm writing on a microcomputer that is softwared by microsoft, as are millions&millions of others. You're just trying to lay down a commentary about how much you dislike microsoft rather than trying to come up with a suitable analogy. That's fine, if the subject were how much of an evil Star Wars empire that Microsoft is or was, but that is not the subject matter.


    https://www.gq.com/story/young…was-an-angry-office-bully

    ***Irrelevant to the discussion at hand.


    I remember using a GUI on Macs in1985 when MS was still doing DOS,non GUI.

    ***Irrelevant


    with MS ,1975, Gates was picking the fruit of 30 years of hardware research.

    ***Again, irrelevant


    in competition with other pickers.. he just outpicked and outfoxed the others

    ***The point here would be to choose the outpicker and outfoxer in the LENR world.


    LENR is absolutely greenfields stuff...

    ***Not really. There's an entire salivating industry just waiting to pounce on it -- the Hot Fusion boys. Just like the Wright brothers were quickly surpassed, so will all the current generation of LENR boys.

  • It might be interesting (for some to look throught the 'oversight and key players' document Carl Page's Anthropocene Instritute produced a few years back. Here's an excerpt - and below a downloadable version of the doc that rubycarat so kindly dug up. When I have finished my research into players it will be interesting to see who survived and who did not.


    'Growing interest and involvement in R&D for LENR technologies from global industrials, billionaires, governments and international consortia has provided a significant push for commercializing LENR applications by the 2020s. With more than $250 million raised to support commercial R&D entities in the last five years, investment in LENR Makers is expected to double to $500 million by 2020.
    LENR R&D activities are underway in Asia, Europe and North America. LENRaries profiles 55 commercial LENR Makers engaged in discovery efforts, conducting research experiments, and designing, building and testing prototypes. Most LENR Makers be they early growth-stage or industrial companies, operate their businesses on a start-up scale with less than 20 employees according to respondents to our LENR Makers survey.
    The objective for most LENR Makers is to develop and fabricate working LENR technologies that are reproducible, controllable on-demand and can scale with commercial level potential. In addition to the promise of becoming a new low-cost renewable energy source, LENR technologies represent an alternative source that does not produce greenhouse gases, long-lived radiation or strong prompt radiation.
    As the list of LENR Makers illustrates, much of the interest and work in researching and developing LENR technologies is focused on a nickel-hydrogen process, which many believe will prove to be a successful pathwayfor reliably reproducing commercial-level applications and products.


    LENRaries (1).pdf

  • I sat next to Robert Duncan at the Colloquium and asked him about the research. Unfortunately he said he couldn't say anything at this time, but he hopes he can at some point soon. I did not ask why,

    I suppose this is good news. The project must still be underway. If it had failed and the funding had run out, I think he would be free to say so. And I think he would say so.

  • About the NoComment by Robert Duncan I can just report my "mésaventure" with a kind academic in LENR I know.

    I asked him a competent opinion on some key LENR theory question, and he just answered he could not answer.

    I am very happy of his silence. Thanks to Dewey Weaver &al probably, even if I have no data nor witness to involve him.


    I just hope the people who don't talk to me, do talk together to go forward faster than alone.

  • Someone who would be the Microsoft of LENR

    I don't think Microsoft will be the Microsoft of LENR

    AFAIK they don't invest much in energy .

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-u…r/investment-history.aspx


    Maybe a Mondragonesque option could be considered

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation


    However Russ George will probably be doing due diligence to salmon

    and check out all options with regard to neither

    Kevmolens rhetorical argumentation(KENR) nor my diversion