Google Alerts brought me this:
Revealed: Woodford lists unquoted stakes offshore to stay below limit
https://citywire.co.uk/wealth-…stay-below-limit/a1216022
I haven't the slightest idea what any of it means.
News about Woodford and Industrial Heat
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I am a (French) corporate lawyer so I'll tell you what I understand from it.
As a fund, Equity Income cannot hold more than 10% of its capital in unlisted companies. In order to circumvent that limitation without having to organize complicated IPOs (and provide the high level of disclosure required to the public), Woodford has been listing its biggest holdings in unlisted companies on bogus regulated markets (no offence to the International Stock Exchange in Guernsey, but its disclosure level is laughable because it does not have to comply with EU regulation).
Just look at the information available in relation to IH (https://www.tisegroup.com/market/companies/6810) and let me know if you feel sufficiently informed
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"Woodford’s controversial stake in cold fusion specialist Industrial Heat, held across the Equity Income fund and Patient Capital investment trust, was listed in Guernsey last October, two weeks after the shares were revalued 357% higher. Stakes held by other investors were not listed."
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He also transferred some unquoted shares from his Equity Income fund (Income funds are usually for slightly more risk adverse investors) to his Patient Capital Fund (more growth orientated) for the same reason.
https://citywire.co.uk/funds-i…or-patient-stake/a1205724
I think this is because fewer people have been investing in his funds recently so he's sold the more liquid shares which is pushing up the percentage of unquoted illiquid shares.
If the only shares listed in Gurnsey are the ones he holds isn't that like saying your house is up for sale but only to people with two heads and a pet unicorn? That doesn't sound like it meets the spirit of the regulations.
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Gives another perspective from the investors side. Not only do they take on the high risk of investing in LENR, but have to deal with almost as much criticism from peers, and colleagues, as the researchers they fund.
Hopefully IH comes through for Woodford, and themselves with a marketable product. Nowadays it seems fairly common in LENR to achieve lab success, but getting an ROI on that is another matter.
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Gives another perspective from the investors side. Not only do they take on the high risk of investing in LENR, but have to deal with almost as much criticism from peers, and colleagues, as the researchers they fund.
Hopefully IH comes through for Woodford, and themselves with a marketable product. Nowadays it seems fairly common in LENR to achieve lab success, but getting an ROI on that is another matter.
Correct. From this perspective it is of immense importance to them that Rossi does not show any progress, and I believe they are increasingly worried about the new decentralized nature of his business. Suddenly a working plant can pop up and it would instantly make the 4 billion valuation of IH disappear, which would be somewhat dissapointing to IH and Woodford (who I guess will be somewhat pissed at IH for messing up the Rossi collaboration to begin with )... This IH house of cards very dependent on Rossi having nothing... hmm. No wonder Dewey is threatening anything that moves...
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So can you go to the Guernsey stock exchange and buy IH shares?
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So can you go to the Guernsey stock exchange and buy IH shares?
It seems like it should be the case but I cannot find for the life of me any way to do so. Apparently trades must go through a Trading Member of TISE but I cannot find any Trading Member website offering to act as a broker.
What I think happened is that Woodford had the shares listed but did not offer any for sale, which is normally impossible in the civilized world but this is Guernsey so everything seems possible. For all purposes (except the one that really mattered to Woodford) IH is still a private company.
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From citywire:
“Woodford’s listing of his unquoted stakes in Guernsey is unlikely to unlock any further liquidity for his fund. While the stocks, structured as preferred shares and listed on the exchange’s corporate debt section, are tradeable, the move provides a means for Woodford to keep hold of them rather than sell.”
Sounds like maybe the Guernsey stock exchange have developed an innovative service for the purpose of helping mutual funds circumvent the stuffy rules laid down by the government. Cheeky.
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the 4 billion valuation of IH
Where do you get the 4B number. I cannot find the share price, number of shares out (22M?) or how to buy any. Woodford's total market cap is only around 8B
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Where do you get the 4B number. I cannot find the share price, number of shares out (22M?) or how to buy any. Woodford's total market cap is only around 8B
Woodford has about a 5% share of Industrial Heat (known since early on this process). And this share is valued at about £200M at the moment according to their website. So it will be approx. $4 bn. Actually GBP, so its a ballpark number of course. It would not be a surprise to me if certain owners would like to sell their shares at this valuation (Dewey?). However, there is probably a very limited buyside ... And Rossi is certainly not helping them by making progress. A live customer would be a disaster to them.
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Another comic book fiction edition from the Planet Rossi times by Stepp.
In 25+ presentations at the MIT Colloquium last weekend, Rossi was not mentioned even ONCE! NOT ONCE by presenters from all over the world.
His stain and drag on the sector are behind us. Its Spring for LENR - the dead of winter and a decade of deception / diverting of resources are all in the rear view mirror. Rossi will soon be a Madoff type footnote in the history of LENR. He's familiar with that - he has earned these positions in the waste oil and TEC footnotes.
The new mainstream is upon us and the Planet Rossi SPs / hanger-on types are setting into the fossil record into perpetuity.
There is no stopping the momentum now.
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Display More
Another comic book fiction edition from the Planet Rossi times by Stepp.
In 25+ presentations at the MIT Colloquium last weekend, Rossi was not mentioned even ONCE! NOT ONCE by presenters from all over the world.
His stain and drag on the sector are behind us. Its Spring for LENR - the dead of winter and a decade of deception / diverting of resources are all in the rear view mirror. Rossi will soon be a Madoff type footnote in the history of LENR. He's familiar with that - he has earned these positions in the waste oil and TEC footnotes.
The new mainstream is upon us and the Planet Rossi SPs / hanger-on types are setting into the fossil record into perpetuity.
There is no stopping the momentum now.
Wow! That sounds more like some type of collective pathological denial. How many of these presenters have an invested interest in Rossi not succeeding? How many are part of the IH
scambalance sheet asset list? -
Just don't drive that bus over the cliff.
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Stepp will eventually learn what national labs and hot fusion folks were quietly in attendance last weekend. I hope that will be a good day for him.
Thanks Alan - Keep it in the road.
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Display More
Another comic book fiction edition from the Planet Rossi times by Stepp.
In 25+ presentations at the MIT Colloquium last weekend, Rossi was not mentioned even ONCE! NOT ONCE by presenters from all over the world.
His stain and drag on the sector are behind us. Its Spring for LENR - the dead of winter and a decade of deception / diverting of resources are all in the rear view mirror. Rossi will soon be a Madoff type footnote in the history of LENR. He's familiar with that - he has earned these positions in the waste oil and TEC footnotes.
The new mainstream is upon us and the Planet Rossi SPs / hanger-on types are setting into the fossil record into perpetuity.
There is no stopping the momentum now.
Hi Dewey,
Your "Spring for LENR" quote makes me hopeful!
Chances of Rossi not having anything similar or better than IH or any of its affiliates are close to zero.
If IH or any of its affiliates have something, chances that IH or any of its affiliates have not weaselled Rossi out of (some of) his IP are even slimmer.
The most beautiful aspect of Rossi's latest presentation was that he could present his product in such a way that IH (and its stakeholders) got portraid as even bigger losers than they actually are. It must have been toe-curling for you and your friends to understand that people actually understood. The Italian troll-master got you guys again.
Cheers,
JB
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wcg - it seems you are fully convinced that the "product" your hero did show in his epic half-body presentation is the best thing since sliced bred. How about providing some real evidence on the ECat SK, the robotic factory, his customers in 4! countries, employees, etc....
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wcg - it seems you are fully convinced that the "product" your hero did show in his epic half-body presentation is the best thing since sliced bred. How about providing some real evidence on the ECat SK, the robotic factory, his customers in 4! countries, employees, etc....
Hi zorud,
My hero indeed, but not because i am absolutely certain the product works. He is either a brilliant conman, or he is a brilliant inventor. Either way he plays the leading role in one of the most entertaining stories of the past decade (s?). I really think we cannot fathom how big this story will become, how it will be perceived in a few years from now. Stuff for movies. A couple.
However, every time DW takes the effort to paint a (more) negative Rossi picture i am more inclined to believe we have a brilliant inventor on our hands. DW stood close to the fire, got burned and still has a stake in the company that got Rossied. Why would he go out of his way to protect his master? Why all the trouble to discredit Rossi.
Nothing IH did or does is without reason. APCO, the Luxenergy effort, the harassament of the Swedes, the Israelis and so on, and so forth, they have something to protect. And i am not buying it that the something they have and protect is not related to the time they spent with Rossi.
Cheers,
JB
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WCG - we stood close to the fire and came out fireproof.
You know that Rossi's criminal charade is over - he sits in tatters at a computer somewhere, desperately trying to find someone and something else to cling to in a negative Sigma .01 kind of way. Focardi, Kullander, Essen, Cook, IH, the rest of the Uppsala Swedes, etc are of no use to him any longer. He has to find a new sucker and enemy.
Along with his PR machine, he's now attempting to conjure up Shoulders and Black Hole Algebra to keep his lifeline to the relevant real world. Its over - the SS R'ster is on the bottom of the Dirac'd sea.
I do hope you're going to like the coming season.
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Chances of Rossi not having anything similar or better than IH or any of its affiliates are close to zero.
If IH or any of its affiliates have something, chances that IH or any of its affiliates have not weaselled Rossi out of (some of) his IP are even slimmer.
My hero indeed, but not because i am absolutely certain the product works. He is either a brilliant conman, or he is a brilliant inventor. Either way he plays the leading role in one of the most entertaining stories of the past decade (s?). I really think we cannot fathom how big this story will become, how it will be perceived in a few years from now. Stuff for movies. A couple.
These statements flatly contradict each other.
If, as you allow possible, Rossi is a brilliant conman, then IH could plausibly have something better than Rossi if they have anything at all. They have been evaluating every plausible-looking bit of LENR research under the sun so you'd think they have a better chance than most. And, while I understand you admire Rossi's ability to lie and deceive and generally make good PR out of bad actions (all evidenced in the Court papers), you'd have to be very strange to think that skill correlated well with the ability to do ground-breaking research.
It won't make much difference to you, but Rossi's serial and laughable technical incompetence also mitigates against his having anything that works. After all, given his measurement methods, he would never know whether one of his systems was working or no. They would all show false positives. That statement is evidenced by solid analysis of his many demos.
To resolve the mystery of Rossi's ability to persuade people in spite of technical incompetence, note:
(1) The people he persuades are typically not technically competent in the type of experimental measurement he conducts (e.g. they are physics profs with expertise in nuclear physics! No doubt highly interested in LENR but no skills in AC electrical measurement).
(2) Marianne Macy's insightful blog shows why Rossi, with his first degree in Philosophy, bright, passionate, interested in everything, well-dressed and happy in elegant restaurants, might well be persuasive. http://www.infinite-energy.com…ng-a-lawsuit-in-lenr.html
