• Quote

    Those "Celani wires" have been around 6 years now I believe. Amazing how a little scrape here, another knot there, produce better, and better results.

    But of course, never tens or dozens of wires in parallel heated by a single source, which should provide spectacular results if the effect is real.

  • never tens or dozens of wires in parallel heated by a single source,

    the effect would be spectacular ..sort of.. .. if seven of twenty wires were in parallel.

    Currently the Celani wire COP is ~1.1 max as contrasted with 2.7 for Brillouin. .

    Both Celani and Brillouin are working on bringing their COP up to something useful like 4.0 ...with single reactors.

    (100 Watts in,110 watts out ) multiplied up to (14,000W in 15,400W out )

    would be a spectacular waste of energy and resources,

  • But of course, never tens or dozens of wires in parallel heated by a single source, which should provide spectacular results if the effect is real.

    I do not know what to make of these claims. They have not been replicated as far as I know, so I don't believe them. I don't disbelieve them either; I just don't know. However, as Robert Bryant pointed out, tens or dozens of wires would be a nightmare to work with, and it would not prove anything that one wire does not prove. Scaling up is not how you do laboratory science, unless the effect is so small it is hard to detect. What you do is:

    1. Have someone independently replicate.

    2. Improve the signal to noise ratio.

    3. Use a different method of calorimetry, to confirm the first method is working.

  • Thank you, Robert.

    I will interview Sergei in end of June, when he is available. I just interview Sveinn Olafsson - and need to edit and get that one out now!

  • Quote

    However, as Robert Bryant pointed out, tens or dozens of wires would be a nightmare to work with, and it would not prove anything that one wire does not prove. Scaling up is not how you do laboratory science, unless the effect is so small it is hard to detect

    Geez folks, this ain't rocket science. The problem with Celani's experiments is that his claim is that he barely makes more power than he puts in. The simple physics of the situation is that the mass of the wires is negligible compared to the overall mass heated in the apparatus. Just ten wires instead of one should have ten times the output of one wire. There is nothing to suggest that they would not. And heating ten wires arranged close together would require essentially the same power as heating one wire so if the measurement for one wire is accurate, then the output for ten wires should be ten times that and whatever you want to call the power out/power in ratio would go up a factor of ten immediately. It should not be difficult to make such a reactor compared to the one used now. The wires could be separated by a ceramic or perhaps mica spacer (I forget the temperature range required) and would occupy only a small additional space.

    I agree with JedRothwell 's other points but point number two would be accomplished by my suggestion.

  • The problem with Celani's experiments is that his claim is that he barely makes more power than he puts in.... blah blah blah..... whatever you want to call the power out/power in ratio would go up a factor of blah...

    Wow... Celani’s wires, again? Really? After numerous exhortations that you often read about, and understand, LENR topics, you bring up the classic counter-example which proves that you don’t read, and certainly don’t understand, much.

    If you had bothered to read, and understand, Celani’s work, you would have learnt that he claims roughly double the output power compared to the input. (Yes, that’s “COP” = 2, for any neurotypicals out there).

    50 Watts in, 100 Watts out, is a typical result.... SOT characterises this as “barely more power than he puts in”.

    ...I characterise him as a wilfully ignorant fool.*

    No doubt he won’t bother to properly read the link provided above (9th time now, I think), and will likely just repeat the same old nonsense in a few weeks/months time.

    ‘So it goes.

    * Some assume he can’t help it, and that I should be less harsh on him. I say, if one is able to write, one is able to read... Assuming one wants to.

  • read, and understand, Celani’s work

    "at 70 W of electric input power, the thermal power emitted are respectively 115 W and 150 W,

    using as gas a mixture of Xe and D2 at 0.1 bar of pressure: shown in Fig.6. "

    this is interesting... gamma ray excitation from thorium...

    maybe the LENR needs a 500 Kev photon every so often


    In our case we have a mild excitation, as intensity, using gamma ray coming

    out from commercial Toriated Tungsten rods (used for TIG welding)

    put outside the glass reactor, located inside an airtight small SS tube.

  • I tried transcribing Ruby Carat's interview, but I couldn't always understand Sveinn Olafsson within reasonable effort; I denoted those portions with [?] marks. Still, this attempt might prove useful to others.

    Transcription released under CC0 public domain license; no copyright claimed and no attribution required.

    * * * * *

    [00:17] [Carat] Today I'm speaking with Dr. Sveinn Olafsson, a research professor at the School of Engineering and Natural Science at the University of Iceland, working with a form of Rydberg matter called Ultra-dense Hydrogen. Dr. Olafsson received his PhD from Uppsala University and began a career in hydrogen storage before starting his LENR research. Forming Ultra-dense Hydrogen allows nuclei to get close enough to react, and may help to understand the LENR processes in solid. Dr. Sveinn Olafsson, thank you for being with us today.

    [00:57] [Olafsson] Yeah, thank you.

    [01:00] [Carat] Dr. Olafsson, you have given several talks about the work Dr. Leif Holmlid, who was researching Rydberg matter, and found what he calls Ultra-dense Hydrogen. How did you first start looking at this work?

    [01:19] [Olafsson] It was basically after 2011 when cold fusion was something in the news again, that thing was mainly with the help of Rossi at that time. So, in the evenings I just started to read and I think I remember that I was Googl[ing] this by chance: "dense Hydrogen" and up came Leif Holmlid, and I was very surprised of what he was publishing there, so I just started to look into that and what was so intriguing was the shortesness of between two [??] of protons that he claimed. So I started to contact him shortly after that. And that is the start of many experiments I did in this field.

    [02:22] [Carat] Now, he was one of the only people doing this, is that correct?

    [02:27] [Olafsson] Yeah, he has been only a guy doing this, except with some other students initially. But he retired two years ago, so since last then he has been alone and I can say that when I started to contact him then there were maybe two in this in the beginning and then Sindre came later after that.

    [03:00] [Carat] Could you talk a little bit about his work and give us a brief description of what Ultra-dense hydrogen is, and describe the setup that he uses to get hydrogen so close together.

    [03:19] [Olafsson] Yeah, he uses a very common technique actually, which is time-of-flight spectroscopy or sometimes time-of-flight mass spectroscopy, and this is widely in all kinds of chemistry experiments and basically what is different, what he is doing is that he has a different production unit of ions or sample which he is studying. So he was initially just interested in the Rydberg states of atoms, and so his whole career he was just improving techniques to study that, and by chance he noticed that the time-of-flight in the time in his experiments was too short actually. So that started this Ultra-dense hydrogen. But before he had been studying different, you see, metals like potassium, which is easier to study and easier to produce Rydberg states. And I think by chance he just used catalysts that could do similar things to hydrogen as to potassium. I mean, hydrogen has a very strange or high ionization energy compared to potassium and all these alkaline atoms, so it was very strange that you can actually make Rydberg state of hydrogen just by catalysis.

    [05:01] [Carat] He has a sample of… is it like a metal in the chamber? And then hydrogen is added to the chamber as a gas…?

    [05:15] [Olafsson] Well, he starts first with this catalyst and this actually a very common catalyst, it's actually making all these plastic wastes you find in the nature now, so it's one of the step of using the polyethylene plastics […] so there are ten millions tons of these catalysts made every year, just to make plastics. Then you put in some styrene and you're changing some atoms on that [??] of that molecule.

    [06:01] [Carat] And how does the Rydberg matter, which turns out to be Ultra-dense hydrogen, how does that form above the catalyst?

    [06:16] [Olafsson] Well, catalyst is usually a very hollow material or nanoporous, so you basically have a huge surface area in the catalyst, just to make production or production quantity much more better, so… So basically you have a nanoporous surface and what is going on there is that probably that hydrogen is absorbed on that surface and we've discussing that is just a special surface where you can [probe] the hydrogen to have the Rydberg state as the lowest energy due to the potassium ions which are on the surface also. And this is a mixture of iron oxide or rust and potassium and it's well known that when you talk of oxide surface it's all metals, but with potassium the free electron from the potassium is a kind of electron gas on top of the surface. So this has never been studied or calculated, because it's very complicated to do it, since the orbit of this Rydberg state is huge, and it would make that the Rydberg atom is in the Rydberg state which is a circular orbit with high quantum numbers if it's an atom [?] and you cannot do that easily to the hydrogen, but on surface you can make a joint co-operation between the surface and the hydrogen. And these may join up on the surface and give us the first states of this process, with is just normal hydrogen Rydberg matter. It's then the feeding material for the Ultra-dense state.

    [08:26] [Carat] Now, this is forming from the catalyst, and well, I did attempt to read the 27-page paper that Dr. Holmlid and Dr. Zeiner-Gundersen have put out. And I understand that there's different types of clusters; you get long chains and you get small clusters. Do you know anything about how these different clusters of Ultra-dense hydrogen will form?

    [09:01] [Olafsson] Not really, because what is probably going on is that you have this feedstock which is normal hydrogen Rydberg matter. And through some interaction or some excitation it is actually more thermodynamically stable to go into the other phase, but not so greatly. So that can form obviously some thin layers on top of metals and that has been seen in experiments that this ultra-dense state, which has so many different forms, is creeping on surfaces and then actually can live there for days, even if you [??] the chamber with air.

    [09:57] [Carat] So, some of these forms of Ultra-dense hydrogen have been determined to create nuclear reactions. Can you talk about how this time-of-flight actually measures these distances where the nuclei are so close together? How can you determine that?

    [10:23] [Olafsson] Actually this time-of-flight measurement is measuring the normal state initially, or just the normal hydrogen Rydberg matter, and the laser is hitting this material, he can actually see at a time-of-flight when the laser breaks up these clusters, the individual atoms travel apart because of the positive charges. So this time-of-flight is that short that the energy or the closeness of these two entities were so close that they have to be at least 2.3 picometers initially. That is the Ultra-dense state. But also, at the same time he can see that they will still [be] close enough to be at normal chemical distances also. So he can see both the normal state and the dense state using the same instrument. What is just different is that in one case you're having a time of flight of a few microseconds, and the next time you have few nanoseconds or that range.

    [11:48] [Carat] So, you are measuring the time that it takes one of these particles that had been reacting to hit your detector, and then you're able to determine the kinetic energy of that particle, and that translates to the energy of the Coulomb.

    [12:13] [Olafsson] Yeah.

    [12:14] [Carat] And then you're able to use that to find the distance. Is that it?

    [12:19] [Olafsson] Yeah, it's used in chemistry also, just normal chemistry to do this technique that you hit with the laser and then these chemical entities they fly apart, it is usually a few… 5 electronvolts and that's it. So this [??] Leif is seeing first energy of 630 eV, which is quite high, and no chemist whatever or physicist will accept that you can have such small bonding distances, so bonding energy in any molecule or any… states, because quantum physics says that state is unbound and not stable. And it's actually a fairly easy basic course in quantum chemistry or physics to prove that; between two protons, and I totally agree on that viewpoint. Nobody knows what happens if you're trying to do this for say 15 or 19 particles or so on. Because that theory is theory is not so easy to solve, or not so easy either to say that it's not possible. But mostly they use a simple way out and say "no, this is impossible"; nonsense, because they're using a so simplified model, they're not using multi-particle physics.

    [14:08] [Carat] When the laser is shined into the sample region, what is the laser hitting? Is that hitting the nuclei or is hitting around the nuclei? What actually hits the detector?

    [14:28] [Olafsson] Well, when it's used on the sample, what the laser is doing is that since it has a wavelength of say one micron, then it's actually just letting the electrons of zillions of protons and electrons to oscillate. So it's this, you know, disrupting something that are [??] something flying, so it's basically [??] and then you have excited something and then these millions of particles somehow react and something flies out.

    [15:07] [Carat] Now, you've measured different times and different kinetic energies which tell you that there are different distances in this material. What is so special about the 2.3 picometer, and how often does that result pop up?

    [15:30] [Olafsson] Yeah, it's always in that [??] range, Leif has reported something little bit less, and also states that are a little higher, and he has given indications that this material has different spin states. The only problem with that is that the theory describing it is taking out of, I would say nowhere, but it's an empirical model, so it has no support from quantum calculations and so on, but it is describing his results, so you can say that there's excited states which are a little bit at longer distances and so on. So, and since Leif is the only man who has been doing this, I mean: we are replicating some parts of his work, but so far we have not been studying this 2.3 picometers so much; we've only been studying the ultra-fast break-up when we have had higher time-of-flight, which is actually not a bound state, it's something flying out with much higher energy.

    [16:55] [Carat] We'll be right back with Dr. Sveinn Olafsson to talk about how he has extended this work in Ultra-dense hydrogen, and what he does to make this exotic material.


    [18:03] [Carat] And we're back with Dr. Sveinn Olafsson, a LENR scientist at the University of Iceland working in Ultra-dense hydrogen. Now, Dr. Olafsson, let's talk about your research for a bit. What are you trying to achieve in extending Dr. Holmlid's work here?

    [18:28] [Olafsson] Well, at the moment we are just trying to catch up with Leif, have have put the labs [together] and we are trying to replicate some of his things because according to him we are the first experimentalists who have contacted him and tried really to replicate things. And it's actually a nice story to tell that I have applied for some money for the Icelandic Research Council here, and the main argumentation that all these reviews says: they say "nothing has been published except him!". And "If this would be true then it would possibly in every high quality scientific journals". So actually it's a catch-22, so apply money for the… believe that all these claims [?] are so wonderful that somebody must have studied it. But nobody does it. So it's not good to be #2 in applying.

    [19:59] [Carat] Did you get the cash?

    [20:00] [Olafsson] Yeah!

    [20:04] [Carat] Good!

    [20:05] [Olafsson] But… I managed to get funding but then it was not… this Research Council was actually technological development fund, so… and they are less, what you could say, they're less bound to what science is and is not.

    [20:33] [Carat] Well, this could have important implications to LENR and of course that's what we're interested in. We need to find a way to make clean energy and Ultra-dense hydrogen seems to put nuclei very close together so that they could possibly react and we could get a technology. Do you think that Ultra-dense hydrogen could be behind the cold fusion/LENR reaction?

    [21:08] [Olafsson] That was my initial thought back then when I saw Leif's articles posted [?] I just thought "this is so close that must be cold fusion". And started to think in that manner. But this is so complicated behavior that… and of course getting experiments in cold fusion and then in Leif's [case] to join up is of course difficult, we're in so different surroundings, so I contacted him and asked him if this was possibly behind cold fusion and he was very skeptical and didn't want to be linked to cold fusion name or anything. But I managed to make a simple calculation that these distances of 2.3 picometers and some simple assumption, and they gave me that the rate at these distances could be enough, but it has one problem, and that is the… if you have this tunneling mechanism at these distances like in muon-catalyzed fusion then you should still see the same result, you should get radioactive neutrons and protons. So that is not enough to wrap up [?] on these two particles, trying to tunneling close to each other. That is not the right physics. Still, but Rydberg matter and Ultra-dense physics has the opportunity to study multi-particle interaction, so in a sense then it tells us that if there's a link it's multi particle tunneling or interaction which could be making cold fusion signals.

    [23:19] [Carat] The formation of this ultra-dense hydrogen, would you say it happens on the surface of the sample or is it above in free space? Because LENR happens happens in a solid material. Do you think the ultra-dense hydrogen could occur inside a solid material?

    [23:48] [Olafsson] It's a tricky question, but I mean: I don't know any samples which is not without a crack or opening. You need usually… foil has cracks and so on, so you don't know actually. I think that there's nothing denying that ultra-dense hydrogen is in all cold fusion experiments.

    [24:21] [Carat] Well, Dr. Olafsson: along with working along Dr. Holmlid in Sweden you also have a graduate student, Sindre Zeiner-Gundersen from Norway. I guess should I call him Dr. Zeiner-Gundersen at this point?

    [24:42] [Olafsson] Hopefully next year.

    [24:44] [Carat] Ok, great! Talk about your role as a teacher and what it has been like collaborating with these multi-continent projects and having a student to work on LENR with. What's the process like there?

    [25:05] [Olafsson] Well, Sindre is not quite young student, in his 30s, so that makes the game this year because sometimes I'm the student, sometimes he is the student.

    [25:22] [Carat] Nice!

    [25:23] [Olafsson] And we could say that since we have been in the lab in Norway and one lab in Iceland, which is a little bit different, we could say that he makes something in his lab and I catch him after that and then I do the same here and viceversa. And then we are traveling to each other's labs and have been reaching out [?], so it's already been three years and PhDs should be over in three years, but we have problem of wanting to see more and do more, so we are always joking when he will finish his PhD.

    [26:14] [Carat] Dr. Olafsson, why is this research important for your to do?

    [26:22] [Olafsson] The nice thing is that you have been a different field, started in a different field and one day you kind of you get bored, you're just doing the everything all again [??], so the main reason for me to join this field was actually to just out of curiosity see what could be done. And differently maybe from these Palladium and Nickel experiments, and I think along this way from 2011 to 2019 you read so different fields that you suddenly are becoming not expert, you know something of about everything in the end so that is the most enjoyable part of this field, but also I have been doing the same as I did a little bit also, so like I have projects in CERN and so on with a large international group where we meet up one year and do a very known technique and it's not cold fusion, but it's nice. Then there's another project activity that I take part in trying to find catalyst for ammonium production. A little part, then so, he got everybit of everything.

    [28:05] [Carat] When you talk about cold fusion with your other colleagues, how do they react?

    [28:13] [Olafsson] Well, at the moment they're so used to it seven years later [?] so they don't… so they just smile or… and I gave a talk last week at the Icelandic Physical society, of what is going on in this field here, and my closing words [were that] if you're confusing don't be let down, I'm also confused as you [are].

    [28:52] [Carat] Did you find that they were open minded to your presentation?

    [28:58] [Olafsson] Yeah, you could say that they were not in any way closing on you but there were [??] in you, because I was just presenting the experimental facts, and then the strange ones, so… I think scientists are much more more open until they have to read the applications, and then they get scared [laughs] and if they have to [???]. So they're open to everything.

    [29:44] [Carat] Dr. Olafsson, will you be attending the International Conference happening this September in Assisi, Italy?

    [29:55] [Olafsson] We have to decide a little bit later because I was talking about this with Sindre today and we decided that we could report something different here than we did last time, but still it's in this replication range that [?] we're replicating Leif's work still, not reporting something new, but… so I think with this I did end something [?] at the end of June. [???] or both or so on.

    [30:34] [Carat] Well, thank you so much for your work, it's very exciting to discover this new material and I'm so glad that you hoped up with Dr. Leif Holmlid, and we wish you much success with your research. Thank you for speaking with us today.

    [30:53] [Olafsson] Thank you.

    [30:56] [Carat] We've been speaking with Dr. Sveinn Olafsson, a research professor from the University of Iceland working with Ultra-dense hydrogen as possible source of LENR.

  • Where were you three days ago?!

    You coulda saved me four hours!…-cold-fusion-now-podcast/

    Thank you can.

  • It's a full but very fast transcription and by all means not free of errors and possibly typos. I will incorporate the missing portions from your summarized and more accurate one into mine; thanks for that.

    I rearranged a few paragraphs to put the same topics in the same "section", so the article posted probably won't match yours.

  • I rearranged a few paragraphs to put the same topics in the same "section", so the article posted probably won't match yours.

    I did notice that, but since I tried filling in most of the missing portions where I did not understand Ólafsson by searching relevant keywords in the article back/forward, in the end the rearranged topic ordering did not matter too much.