ICCF-22 (Sept. 8-13) News/reports/opinions

  • Your comment is right on and very important. NO METHOD CAN PRODUCE LENR WITH RELIABILITY. That fact needs to be accepted. We can say only that some methods work more often than others.


    That statement is only true, if one rejects the production of what was call magnegas as not resulting from the same mechanism behind LENR. But the truth maybe that a commercial company has been making millions of dollars per year by the application of LENR. I haven't seen a better explanation than that the extreme magnetic fields that cause magnetic bond in magnegas are a result of nuclear excitation.

  • That statement is only true, if one rejects the production of what was call magnegas as not resulting from the same mechanism behind LENR. But the truth maybe that a commercial company has been making millions of dollars per year by the application of LENR. I haven't seen a better explanation than that the extreme magnetic fields that cause magnetic bond in magnegas are a result of nuclear excitation.

    Drgenek , I have been interested in the so called magnegas for over a decade, but I can’t agree that it is proof of a LENR process, it is indeed an interesting synthetic gas but the scientific claims behind it have never been independently confirmed.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • People are still connecting and catching up, enjoying the lovely evening with drinks (water is a favorite after all the airplane flights) and I posted some pictures on the Twitter account: https://twitter.com/ColdFusionNow I was not able to get everyone; there are 149 registered, but still - hmm, maybe 30-40 still to show up. Some of the Russian contingent have missed connections and will be in late tonite.


    There are many newer people, and lots more European and Russian signed up. When registering you get a name tag and a bag with ICCF-22 on it. I'll be giving stickers this week, as well as some crazy coasters.


    Sadly, there is no live streaming available, but video is being taken. I can not tell you when they would be made available. Editing this ton of lectures does take time. Lectures and presentations start tomorrow. The auditorium at Domis Pacis seats about 200, and is quite lovely.


    There are some complaints about no printed program. The organizers Bill Collis and Claudio Pace are encouraging people to use their electronic versions.


    I have met Cydonia, and Gennady Tarasenko of the LENR-forum. Lovely gentlemen, with radical ideas that we'll hear about in the coming days. Of course I came up with Alan Smith and we both have been helping Bill and Claudio when they need it mannning the desk.


    I put up my "poster" about the comic book I put together and Matt Howarth did the art, and I also put up Mel Miles' posters, who won't be attending the conference. There is Someone here has a comic publishing connection so we will add that to the list of people to send it too.


    There is chatter about Safire, and lots of excitement about them getting both heat and transmutations. Mizuno's results were brought up, in the context of recent breakthroughs, and the general feeling is one of hopeful optimism. We don't know yet what Jed Rothwell will be saying in his talk. I hope he has some new good news to tell.


    Despite the photos on Twitter there is a good number of young people, as well as a student from italy who got his degree in LENR at oh geez, I think he said University of Turin, an accomplishment because his professor is/was a skeptic.


    The crew from Japan is here, and I can't wait to hear their new results. Japan has the number one program on the planet, and achieved many successes.


    I'm going to get video for the documentary film, and audio, too. OH I forgot to say that I've been sitting on a podcast with Frank Acland for two weeks now - no time to transcribe since I just started back at work. Frank, if you're reading this - I'm sorry! I don't know when I'm going to get to that but I hope it is soon after this week in Italy.

    I have not slept hardly at all since I left Friday morning. Crashing now... Until next time!




    Good night!


    tHANK YOU LENR-forum for helping me get to this conference. I will post up more tomorrow.

  • Quote

    Maybe calcium loss can be found in bone loss? Anything to do with human biology has some drawbacks as Max as hinted at-multiple possible causes- difficulty of valid controls- jargon intensive reading

    You entirely missed the point. Which is that, contrary to the post's claim, dental implants do not cause systemic loss of calcium nor of anything else. Let me make it simple for you: the post was bullpucky. Titanium is chosen for implants and hybrid screwed in (aka implant-supported) dentures exactly because it causes no adverse tissue or bone reactions. Or do you think research dentists are all idiots?

  • That statement is only true, if one rejects the production of what was call magnegas as not resulting from the same mechanism behind LENR. But the truth maybe that a commercial company has been making millions of dollars per year by the application of LENR. I haven't seen a better explanation than that the extreme magnetic fields that cause magnetic bond in magnegas are a result of nuclear excitation.

    LENR is by definition the initiation of various nuclear reactions without the need to apply significant energy. The reactions take place on;y in special conditions present in condensed matter and result in heat energy along with nuclear products without significant radiation being detected. In other words, this is an unusual nuclear process that result in conventional types of nuclear products while generating mostly heat energy. If you want to explain Magnegas, I suggest you use a different word. Trying to relate or mix different behaviors is a good way to create confusion, especially since neither LENR nor magnegas are understood.

  • Quote

    There are some complaints about no printed program. The organizers Bill Collis and Claudio Pace are encouraging people to use their electronic versions.

    LOL. I bet there are no round dial telephones either and probably very few cassette tape recorders.


    BTW, the rationale behind and the practicality of "magnegas" (weird name) is quite uh... controversial:

    https://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13129


    For me, JedRothwell 's presentation of Mizuno's work will be very interesting, if not the most interesting conference topic.

  • My poster i will share at ICCF.

    interesting idea Cydonia . Recently i have read something interesting on Biomass heatpipe reformes (BioHPR) to produces h2 and the role of materials. Refer to attachment (sorry only available in german). Refer to section 2.5 p.40 a high temp. Stainless steel sintered alloy 1.4841 is used as the carrier body for the h2 membrane, in this case palladium.😎 Would be interesting to see, if this design could be modified and applied for your reactor concept.

  • The conference has started! Bill Collis spoke first, but I missed it - jammed up at the front desk, people still coming in. I met Alla Kornilova at breakfast!!!!!! What a thrill! I will try to interview with the camera this week.


    Mike McKubre is up now speaking about how the CF community should do better communicating what we know. He is addressing the negative google article. He says that they did not "not listen". He says that they listened, and we didn't effectively communicate. The failure is on the cmns community, McKubre says.


    "This field lacks a clearly and fully specified written protocol to reproduce even semi-reliably any aspect of our claims for cold fusion or condensed matter nuclear effects of any sort."


    We need "to see oursels as ithers see us!" Google did good things with their 4-year program:

    1. Vision and action. - $10 million and four years so far, and they are CONTINUING.

    2. Publication - an achievement to publish, despite the negative result.

    3. Confirmation -

    4. Youth involvement - google put together a young team that is INTERESTED in this field, and McKubre believes this participation with young people in this program may have actually saved the field, which is getting way too old.


    "Without active youth participation we will fail to complete Martin Fleischmann's dream and vision."


    Stan and Martin discovered not just cold fusion, but "nuclear effects".


    He believes that he could not do what he did at SRI, because he doesn't have the TEAM of talent, which is critical. SRI was "lucky" with the materials early on, and then their palladium ran out, and then it was tough to get the effect.


    We "don't know how it works, but we know it can be done, and it has already given indication that it may be useful", says McKubre.


    What's next? Mike Melich's loss was huge, because he thought "strategically", and Matt Trevithik is a strategic thinker too.


    Afterwards, I asked, "How do I respond when people say google didn't get any result, and the Nature articles are clear that this is not real"? He said that those people are thinking "like it was in 1989", and they aren't going to change, so essentially, it's not worth trying.

  • David Nagel is up now talking about Kálmán and Keszthelyi's work. He is impressed because they have qualitatively new ideas and they are very competent.

    He wants to know what's the connection between enhanced fusion cross sections beam experiments and LENR?


    K&K address this issue with their papers from 2004 to 2019. Nagel looks for "concepts, equations, and results", and K&K have this. He does not fully understand their work fully, and he is trying to understand the complication. He looks at the fundamental diagrams. The diagrams show "a second order process where particles 1 and 2 come together to produce 1' and 2'. Particle 2 does not need high energy to vercome the Coulomb barrier. The (near-zero) energy of the initial state does not change due to Coulomb perturbation with the catalyst". This is a "3-body mechanism", Nagel says about the Pd-D fusion within a Pd Lattice. Nagel says the "roles of P and D can be reversed"

    In LENR experiment, thie initial energy and momentum of the particles are so small that they may be considered zero on the nuclear energy and momentum scale. Conservation of energy and momentum are conserved.


    "Particles 1' and 4 have equal and opposite momenta."


    "Fusion is only one of many possible reactions." and K&K give reaction rates. They use lattice constants, too.


    LENR can be either surface or bulk reactions.


    However, the nuclea reaction rates are independent of the magnitude of the relative velocity of the reactants Particles 2 and 3. sources of required motion:

    projectile volecity for beam experiments: ion bombardment for plasma experiments, atomic bombardment for hot gas experiments, and Hor D flux for Electrochemical experiments. K&K are giving "recipes" for experiments.


    Nagel says K&K explain heat production and transmutations.


    K&K contacts with LENR data:

    Nuclear reaction in solids can be different than nuclear reaction in other envronments

    Loading threshold and variation for LENR

    Helat-Helium ratio in LENR expriments

    energy production in Ni-H experiments

    Transmuatioan in LENR experiments

    Low energy enhanved D-D fusion cross sections

    ....



    Fundatmental 3-body reaction is the big takeaway though.

  • Vladimir Vysottski speaks next. I am no genius, but I will try to get this on-the-fly. You all know VV is Heavy Math and vocabulary. and this presentation also has Alla Kornilova, Peter Hagelstein, and someone else -missed it - so you know it's deep.


    "One of the possible mechanisms of long distance energy transfer may be connected with generation and propagation of thermal waves."


    " 'Standard' heat wave attenuates over an interval equal to the wavelength!"


    In more realistic case you must take in to account "local thermodynamic relaxation".


    He also said something about the "thermal memory" of metal.


    He is discussing "undamped thermal waves" which can be associated with different excitation mechanism and possible sources. These do not damp until far away (from where they are generated, I assume). He has worked on this "undamped thermal waves" 15 years ago using a bubble cavitation device. He shows a spectrum of observations of long -distance (18.5 cm., 45 cm., 198 cm.) thermal waves from these experiments.

  • After the coffee break, Jed Rothwell is speaking. The nickel-mesh is physically rubbed, and heat measured with the air-flow calorimeter.


    He shows results from the previous conference, about 12Watts excess.

    50 Watts input, 300 Watts output, 250 W excess, including losses (175 Watts excess without the losses). The R20 best result gives 11 degrees C temp jump.


    July 18, 2019 reality check 216 W in, 324 W out, 108 W excess with the R21 reactor. Power, temperature and air flow rate measure independently. Jed says, this is a confirmation, a reality check. It is not a replication, but he considers this result the next best thing. Mizuno has redundant instruments (which all say the same thing). This corresponded to about 5 degrees temperature difference. R21 has the same geometry of the R20.



    Several replications are underway. Ahang reports succes sieth a Seebeck calorimeter. Problem: reaction tapered off. Some people said the nickel rubbed off of the mesh, and the palladium didn't stick. Another person did not produced heat for a week or two, then, 4 W and 9W, and then higher (missed that).


    Rothwell and Mizuno uploaded a detailed recipe, which he repeated. He says some details you don't need to know, like the detergent brand name, but who knows, so he included brand names. People were wondering about the washing in the tap water, like, what is in the tap water in Sapporo?


    Mizuno has burnished nickel messh w/ Pd, and distributed them. That was just last month, so no experiments are going yet.


    He will have his R20 nickel-mesh that produced big heat analyzed by ________(superglue lab???)_ .


    This is more art than science, so if you've got ideas, they will take them.


    Jed hopes that replicators will get 10 Watts, which is what Mizuno got at first last year.


    They know that the flow is turbulent because they did a traverse test. Their results show uniformity at all points inside. Low heat means not much heat is lost through the walls, but how much? They measured heat recovery at different locations and nailed the numbers down. However, they can ignore the losses from the walls because the heat generation is so great, the wall losses are negligible.


    Mizuno moved the heater to the middle of the inside of the reactor, and that seemed to improve performance. One mesh to the next gives different performance. R21 with new mesh only gave 30 Watts excess with a 102 W input and 135 Watts outpus. Heating in cycle 1.5 to 3 hours long. The sample is spontaneously heating and cooling and loading and de-loading - this is all not under Mizuno's control. But this tells him that flux is important.


    The R20 data is so stable, Jed gets suspicious, thinking it is maybe an artifact. But the jiggly R21 data makes him more positive. Since all variables are measured independently , he feels the artifact explanation goes away.


    He went through the points of Edmund Storms paper Relationship between the burnishing process used by Mizuno and the Storms theory of NAE formation and says that storms is able to explain the important aspects of this.


    QUESTION ANSWERS Jed refers to details in the paper, which he doesn't have a copy of but is on the Internet.


    The same mesh moved into a new centrally-heated reactor will work better.


    The unit will work for months! He shows a graph over 111 days.


    A lab in the US has one of his three (stacked) nickel mesh sheets for analysis and they will see if there are any other daughter products.

  • Thomas Grimshaw is talking about his LENR Research Documentation Project. Longterm researchers are leaving the field - they are getting old. All the decades of various software and storage media have made the cold fusion data difficult to access. Grimshaw want to mitigate the loss of materials and records, allows re-examination of LENR research recor (leaching the tailings).


    Each documentation project is tailored to the individual researcher. He started with Ed STorms. All projects begin with a professional biography, and he writes memos fro each component. There are interviews with the Participants. Research phases are defined, and project reports based on interviews and collection of memos.


    Project components can be publications and presentations , unpublished reports, electronic files in old and new media, hard copy records, lab notebooks, LENR books and journals in their library, and conference proceedings.


    He worked with Storms on a lab proposal to build a lab to study LENR, but they did not get funding, so they worked instead to document his then 29-years of LENR research.


    He's documented Storms, Tom Claytor and Macom Fowler, SKINRs D. Pease, Arik el-Bohar, and Graham Hubler, Dennis Letts, David Nagel, Mahadeva srinivasan, Dave Nagel and Mel Miles.


    Tom went through outlining some of the participants' project. Dave Nagel has a lot of files! SKINRs records ended up with Dennis Pease. Mel Miles was the most recent participant. He had 200+ publications, more than anyone else he thinks, his lab notebooks are as detailed as you can get. The guy is meticulous, and also has about 40 VHS tapes that his wife Linda recorded early on at conferences. They are now being digitized.


    All material is owned by the researchers, and on-site visits are highly preferable. NDA considerations not yet constraining.

  • Just wanted to give much thanks to rubycarat for her on the fly coverage, the next best thing to being there for all of us who had no possibility of being there.


    You are doing a great work Ruby!!!

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • Stephen C. Bannister is up now with Limits to Growth the Intersection of energy, economics, and environment (E3).


    He's from UUtah, where the inital discovery was made. There is some new (small) activity going on at the campus, though not widespread. He will say more about that later.


    Bannister's early research led to his understanding of energy as a fundamental input to economics. Data from England over years 1300 to today show this fact.


    CMNS is expanding the frontiers of physics, CMNS is a potent way to banish carbons sources ( he says zero carbon now), the cheaper the new sources, the quicker carbon eradication will occur, in the Industrial revolution, the key factor was substituting coal for wood - wood was getting expensive, so it took a while, but coal was cheaper and replaced wood. This makes Bannister think we will have another Industrial Revolution, if we can deploy a new, scalable, cheap, and clean energy source. How cheap? As cheap as possible. Rothwell has a paper claiming LENR tech could produce energy 600x cheaper than existing resources. How high would you like your living standards? It can be achieved, the cheaper the energy the higher the living standards.


    Now he is talking about the supply side: what constrains economic growth? A sufficiently large supply shock will tend to propel incomes and output into a higher gear, as shown by his Industrial revolution research and data.


    The Kaya identity model, dates to the 1990s due to a Japanese reseaercher Kaya: F= P g e f


    E is energy

    G is GDP

    f is carbon dioxide flux

    P is population

    g is per capita living standards

    e is energy intensity E/G


    actual intensities measured and actual intensities show close association.


    Taking these fundamental parameters and forecasting them using various methods, shows a serious situation with the carbon intensity performance. It is UNCERTAIN. There is a lot of momentum in this data as it uses all primary sources of energy and gdp.


    Multiplying intensities by population gives "level curves". 2090, the forecast is world GDP will peak and starts going down. (We need his graphs to get this...)


    eradicate carong sources - the cheaper the quicker, and if this new source is fully distributed for economic efficiency and equity.


    LENR community "is another step on the Kardashev scale."

  • because it causes no adverse tissue or bone reactions

    Thanks for your new found dentistry expertise. SOT. perhaps you should be an implant sales rep?

    My wife was an implant support person in Japan for about two years pre2000 and complained about a few sales reps.. but the dentists were far worse.

    SOT,you need to READ those big biological words like inflammation    and macrophages.

    These were given in the references I suggested.. did you read them?


    Rather than no adverse tissue reactions you should write TITANIUM causes less adverse tissue reactions ( relative to silicone?)


    "In vitro studies have shown that titanium can activate macrophages [30], and that complement factors in blood plasma binds to titanium

    implant surface which suggests that during the early stage of inflammation following titanium implant placement..,"


    I just want to find out what is Alla's key isotope.. I am betting it has an odd mass number. eg Ti47? is it titanium?

    I look forward to her presentation

  • I have been interested in the so called magnegas for over a decade, but I can’t agree that it is proof of a LENR process, it is indeed an interesting synthetic gas but the scientific claims behind it have never been independently confirmed.


    You are right about magnegas, there is no certain proof between magnegas and magnetic based bonding. I used an assumption that magnetic bonding was a result of w-waves, then assigned the unknown (assumed magnetic bonded species) based on probable distribution, then I used that distribution and mass balance to derive an equation for the nuclear reaction by stoichiometry. Stoichiometry is a remarkable proof. So, the assumption that magnetic bonding is a result of nuclear reaction is reasonable. All of this is in my pending patent which you all have access to.