Nature: Google funded research fails to find excess heat/nuclear signature. Reaches out to LENR community for advice!

  • I do not know what "back-to-back" run means in this context.


    Since you are a sentient human being please look up "heat after death" at LENR-CANR.org.

    Back to back means that we has had event today. The next day we followed the protocol and we did get had. The following day we also followed the protocol and we got HAD event . And so on. One off event belongs to urban legends category you know this, Jed.


  • In this experiment they note that the high temp tungsten heater (associated with the HAD phenomenon) can generate highly reactive H. They do not do any post-experiment calibration of the Pt thermocouple, nor specify its details. Therefore one obviosu unexplored possibility for these results is progressive contamination of the thermocouple by mono-atom H leading to higher readings.

  • .....unexplored possibility for these results is progressive contamination of the thermocouple by mono-atom H leading to higher readings.


    Two questions ; -


    1. How do you know it was unexplored?

    2. If the Pt thermoresistor was damaged by monatomic H, how come it (apparently) fixed itself again?


    Since the phenomenon is well known and the topic was raised by the authors, it would be a sophomore error not to check.


  • Alan:


    (1) Of course I don't know. That is why it should have been checked.

    (2) Did it fix itself? Maybe I missed something but at the end of the experiment it was reading high? You'd think it might change again when the atmosphere changed after the experiment of course.


    The context here is trying to find some irrefutable evidence (similar to the Curies) for LENR.


    Re topic raised by authors. They mentioned that mono-H was highly reactive in a different context: not with any view that it might affect the Pt thermocouple readings.

  • mono H was highly reactive because it's a radical specimen in few words electrons aren't coupled by 2.

    In this case electron's magnetic field couln't be hidden, to be able finally to "interact" during Lenr behavior.

    This paper explains how much it's difficult to trap mono H inside Pd lattice.

    Nobody doesn't seem to have correlated high loading level with D and not necessary for H ??

    We well understand here by one hand heat necessity to load then by other hand too much heat enlarges lattice then flee hydrogen.

    We understand more Broullin's technical way to better drive this behavior.

    They use several layers to cross hydrogen through. For example, if a less "porous" metal is sputtered onto a Pd film , hydrogen during diffusion should be dynamically trapped between these two metals. It seems that mono H shouln't be too close from each other to remain "magnetic activated"then rushed by external magnetic field to trigger Lenr.

    radical specimen + neutral another "metallic" atome + external field seems to be a good way .

    By metallic atom we should see too a radical atom flooded inside an electronic see.

  • From the abstract:'In

    this stage both “excess heat”and “heat after death”was observed once. '

    Do I need to bother treading past that?

  • I knew that hydrogen can effect thermocouples, you knew. So your suggestion that the authors did not is (I'm afraid) pure guesswork.


    Alan, I think you have this backwards. The whole point id that they could have made the results 100X more convincing by detailing in the report the work they did to check that calibration shift in the TC was not a problem. You don't assume that a new effect not predicted by existing theory exists when given results that could be good, or could be completely artifactual.

    At least I hope you don't?


    You are right: it is an obvious problem. And when reporting unusual results it is all the more important to make such checks and document them. Without such documentation we are left not knowing, as you say.


    I'd like to point out that LENR reports, as this one, that show strong positive results do often, as here, leave out description of the necessary validation leaving the reader having to guess.


    In the context here this is not irrefutable evidence like the Curies provided. In fact it is weak evidence.


    THH


  • LENR-forum came after Rossi.


    Seven, it is a different environment now. The digital world allows every type of statement to be made with equal power. I say the Navy's LENR work is tight. You say it is not. I doubt you know more than me, though it is possible.


    Jean Baudrillard rightly observed that in this world "nothing can be known", which I why I generally have not participated in forums like these where Chip Bodies (the part of you that lives online) experience this world purely through a screen and argue about un-knowable things. My integrity of purpose (and probably the puritan work ethic my family instilled in me!) prevents that.


    You know me as Ruby Carat because that was my Internet name. When I interfaced with the Chemical Bodies in this field (the physical world) that's how I became known. But that's not really me. You only know the Chip Body part. My point being, your knowledge is a "slice" of the reality when it only comes through a screen.


    And what is coming through the screen? "Fake news" is everywhere. There is a crisis in truth now called "truthiness". We have the ability to make videos of people saying things that they never said.


    To say that pure information can cut through that fog is the naivete of a mindset who thinks he has control over his world, and that there are rational operating principles at work in a literate and rational society. That world is imagined, and does not exist, except in your mind.


    “World War III is a guerrilla information war with no division between military and civilian participation.”- Marshall McLuhan - from 1973!


    There is only politics now. And this is because we make technology, and that technology re-makes us.


    McLuhan said, "If you want to understand why people act the way they do, look at how that communicate." The digital world where all information is available real or fake is now the way our society - WE- operate. The current US President is the image of the very quality referenced - one day says one thing, the next is the opposite. He is the Internet made flesh. If we survive this wave, and get cold fusion, we got a chance.


    But information alone convinces no one. If that is the case, then the fact that we are on track for a million species to go extinct, that we are on track to turn the ocean into bubbly water, that we need to repair the failing infrastructure, ....my god, if information was all it took, we'd already be in heaven on Earth. But you know very well, that is not the case. Information alone convinces no one, especially those with entrenched perspectives.


    And now, I've spent 15 minutes writing information to you. As I say good-bye, seven, here's another McLuhanism that plays on Andy Warhol:


    "In future, everyone will have privacy for 15 minutes." Pretty funny, huh.

  • My point was that if you are going to invest, you have to vet the inventor and also the claims. That starts with the CV and work history. Rossi, for example, flunks that 100% off the bat unless you believe what he writes about himself and nothing else. I don't expect investors to know how to test LENR, I expect them to know how to hire someone who does know. And that would be someone who is not part of the "usual suspects." Someone who knows how to require truly independent and effective testing. Surely, at least a cursory search of the internet is a reasonable part of vetting. If Woodford's people did that and still gave credence to Rossi, well, you know what that makes them.

  • So it is a good thing researchers have often used Seeback calorimeters with thousands of points measuring the temperature.


    So, you agree with what said by SoT: "Calorimetry which depends on a single or very few point temperature measurements is inherently error prone, especially if the points are monitored by thermocouples or RTD's.".

    Don't you?


    It is also a good thing that Fleischmann and Pons and others used arrays of multiple thermocouples, instead of just one.


    Are you sure? All the many schematic diagrams available on the internet of the F&P cells show only A SINGLE thermistor!

  • My point was that if you are going to invest, you have to vet the inventor and also the claims. That starts with the CV and work history.


    Darden knew all about Rossi's history before approaching him. He and Vaughn went in knowing who they were dealing with.


    Were it not for the positive first HotCat report in Ferrara, chances are he would have backed out of the deal. Were it not for the second "Lugano" report, they probably would not have agreed to Doral.

  • or could be completely artifactual.

    XIng Zhong Li may be Assisi... contact him there... the Tsinghua lab has continued with gas loading for over twenty years/

    maybe they have not discovered the complete artefact in more than twenty years and are lost in the Beijing smog?

    There was a paper last year?... maybe it will be published by September

    its good that Ruby was on the spot

    https://coldfusionnow.org/inte…day-june-7-presentations/


  • Sounds interesting work: perhaps you could link a full paper when one is available so that it can be evaluated.

  • Sounds interesting work


    I might let them know your query about completely artefactual. in 1995

    How shall I refer you,,, Dr THHuxleynew? MS?


    I think the Tsinghua lab published also about replicating Mizuno's work..in 2018

    . perhaps Jed knows if they have published more

    this stage both “excess heat”and “heat after death”was observed once. '

    Do I need to bother treading past that?

    I will bother , Max .. there is a lot of stuff that happens in 20 odd yrs of gas loading research.

    The Chinese research is very much 'under the radar; may be they will answer my enquiry

  • Quote

    Darden knew all about Rossi's history before approaching him. He and Vaughn went in knowing who they were dealing with.

    Were it not for the positive first HotCat report in Ferrara, chances are he would have backed out of the deal. Were it not for the second "Lugano" report, they probably would not have agreed to Doral


    That speaks poorly for Darden. And here's the thing I and others have been saying since summer 2011 - almost 8 f'n years by now! There was never any need to do what Rossi proposed which was to link together 50+ lame pieces of junk he called reactors. Darden should have asked the price of making one of those units, a single ecat, work properly under independent testing unrelated to anyone who had already tested Rossi. You have to remember that those who tested Rossi, sadly including Kullander and Essen, never required any number of things which would have revealed the flagrant scam. These include testing by others as a black box with calorimetry of the type we already discussed. It would have included testing with blank runs and calibrations. It would have included adequate isolation of the input power to preclude shenanigans with that. Those and other valid suggestions for avoiding being scammed were laid out in great detail in several easy to find forums and email lists.


    Of course, Rossi would have refused any safeguards which might have revealed his duplicity but the refusal should have been the answer. Instead, it required a year or more and $11 million to Rossi plus an estimated $5 million more to lawyers to get to the right conclusions. It was a thoroughgoing and completely preventable f'up by Darden and anyone who advised him how to deal with the criminal, Rossi, the way he did. Rossi only got away with his scam as much and as long as he did because of the gross incompetence and appalling gullibility of the people who evaluated him and gave him money, publicity and other support.