Rossi: The final chapter

I just wanted to thank Shane for my new favorite thread

I think there is one clear consensus on this thread. The chance of Rossi having something is much less than the chance of extraterrestrial UFO's being real.

Quote from Director

Rossi's systems have worked. There have been failures both intentional and unintentional, but multiple parties have witnessed Rossi's systems producing significant to huge amounts of excess heat or have replicated his systems themselves. What I find disgusting is not that Rossi is being attacked by individuals like you (due to his recent puppet show that made the whole community look like raving lunatics to outsiders he deserves ridicule), but that even supporters of LENR are willing to dismiss the idea that his technology ever worked because they despise him so badly. This is horrible, in my opinion.

And you're right, Rossi never flat out said most of what I posted. But I've been following this saga very closely and there have been many nuggets of information posted online. Also, some things are flat out obvious. For example, the glowing "creatures of light" in his LiAlH4 and nickel systems that used higher voltage three phase AC to produce a rotating magnetic field was exactly what was needed to spin up a plasma vortex. This method has been used in spheromaks in the past. Also, the complex space charge configuration is an absolute reality. There are many mainstream papers about them! This is a phenomena that has been documented for very long time. Whenever a negative resistance takes place, one of these complex space charges must form to power the circuit while the voltage and current relationship is reversed!

I'm sure Rossi knows all about complex space charges and negative resistances. Moreover, I'm sure he is aware of the ion acoustic waves they produce because they were on his oscilloscope during the Stockholm presentation. The wave forms on that display are the SIGNATURE of a negative resistance. The ion acoustic waves are a result of the complex space charge configuration periodically absorbing energy and matter from the plasma and then ejecting the same. Almost like a life form, they do this to power themselves and the circuit.

Moreover, Kenneth Shoulders is mentioned in one of Rossi's papers. I'm certain that he has read his work and knows that the macro-scale plasmoid or complex space charge configuration in the QX or SK is simply a larger steady state form of EVO. And as we know, going back a hundred years, there are dozens of technologies that utilizes EVOs (even if they were not called that) or the negative resistance regime to produce anomalous effects. I've posted a list of inventions on here before, so I won't do so again. The fact is that by producing a macro-scale EVO you are concentrating the active agent of all these systems into a ball that can produce POWERFUL anomalies including excess energy in multiple forms.

Rossi has irritated me to extreme lengths, but I will give him credit to one thing. He's a workaholic and never quits. I don't expect him to ever present a working technology to the world in a way that's open. But we have learned a lot by following how he has improved his technology.

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Rossi's systems have worked. There have been failures both intentional and unintentional, but multiple parties have witnessed Rossi's systems producing significant to huge amounts of excess heat or have replicated his systems themselves. What I find disgusting is not that Rossi is being attacked by individuals like you (due to his recent puppet show that made the whole community look like raving lunatics to outsiders he deserves ridicule), but that even supporters of LENR are willing to dismiss the idea that his technology ever worked because they despise him so badly. This is horrible, in my opinion.

All people have witnessed is bad demos set up and controlled by Rossi that Rossi claims show excess heat. These are (in some early cases) very convincing, while also fake. For example the very long heat after death observed in the early "Samovar" demo that many thought was absolute proof but actually could easily be explained by a "hot core" inside the (large) Rossi equipment. On careful analysis there was much circumstantial evidence (the way Rossi shut it off) to indicate this.

Out of his 20 or so demos, all (even Ferrara) have plausible systematic errors that would generate the claimed results with no excess heat. In many cases Rossi has bee caught actually himself generating false positives by mismeasurement. Personally I don't despise Rossi. I believe he is an extraordinary fantasist, charismatic, with as you say great work ethic. Nor can I be sure his stuff does not work. BUT - If he had done no tests at all, and simply announced a world-breaking LENR technology with no evidence, I would have better reason to think this than I do currently.

Why? Because he has shown himself to be totally incompetent technically, in ways that would generate false positives. Examples:

• Power measurement with average RMS V and I meters (false positive on triac chopped waveforms, as he has used)
• Claiming that polarity does not matter when measuring 3 phase AC (false positive if one clamp is reversed)
• Steam does not need to be positively checked for wetness to count phase change enthalpy (false positive in many early demos and probably Doral)
• Stating that power into a load could be determined from the square of voltage across a shunt resistor.

Read my lips. My judgement of Rossi's success or lack of it comes from a close analysis of his demos - not any "detestation". Rossi is uniquely interesting in so blatantly showing people demos where the error mechanisms are obvious from outside - and refusing to mend these even when friends (on one occasion Josephson) ask him to do this.

Rossi has irritated me to extreme lengths, but I will give him credit to one thing. He's a workaholic and never quits. I don't expect him to ever present a working technology to the world in a way that's open. But we have learned a lot by following how he has improved his technology.

What evidence do you have of improvement? What I see in the demos over a long period is decreasing claimed COP (from early demos to "hot-cat"). And in more recent demos (quark, sk) no attempt even to measure input power, and therefore no evidence at all of performance. My explanation for this is that over time he has used up the many various error modes that he might use to obtain false positive results. You could argue that he is honest enough to understand this, but fantasist enough to believe his stuff works even when his demo does not actually show anything. Or that he does this deliberately. It does not matter which.

Quote from Bob#2

Sam12,

After following the Rossi saga since at least 2011, I have to ask a question. As I was earlier on, a Rossi supporter myself, posting several posts in support of him and calling out the so called "patho-skeptics", I ask this in earnest.

How to you process all the factual events over the past few years? Would you please respond as to what your opinion of what happened to the "Rossi proclaimed" benchmarks?

1) You have have seen Rossi state he has reached "5 sigma". If true, (although Rossi never explained it in detail) is a process which indicated that his reactors were 99.9999% reliable. Yet he always "has problems". This is contradictory or lie?

2) That he has customers for the last three iterations of his unit. They are always satisfied. Yet he continues to "move to the next design" and these satisfied customers are left in the dust? What do you think Rossi has done with these 4-5 NEW customers? Is he still supporting them? Are their reactors still running?

Please consider the implications here. Customers would have spent large amounts of money installing eCats and now they are abandoned?

Or was this just lies?

3) Rossi keeps stating his "team" is working hard. Yet all evidence points that he has no team. Even in Doral, his team was (2) people. He has stated this for years. Do you think this is just exaggeration or actual lies.

4) He recycles the same hyperbole, Each time he needs a "bump" in supporter excitement, he starts talking about "direct electricity" or "self sustain". What do you think about this? It is clearly not an issue. If he has reactors with COP of 50+ like he claims, it would be simple, very simple, to hook up a sterling engine or such and an alternator and loop the power to self sustain. Yet he then will state this is not possible, giving vague and silly, unfounded reasons. What is your opinion on this?

5) The Doral fiasco clearly proved that Rossi lied and cheated. He generated fake invoices, fake customers, fake engineers, fake everything. All while posting on JONP how great everything was. These were proven lies. Do you think, like some here, that he had to because of the EVIL venture capital vampire was sucking him dry. (Even though they paid him 10 million dollars!) Seriously, what do you think of Doral event?

You stated well over a year ago, you were going to give him a year. Rossi has done nothing but go down hill. The last demo was laughable. And yet, here you are.... still supporting him. How do you come to this conclusion. Based upon known data and fact, how do you arrive to your decision? Is it simply that you believe what Rossi says based upon no supporting evidence. That you can ignore all the blatant evidence and still believe?

I once supported him.... but it did not take long to see his lying and deceiving ways. Unlike some, I would not support a fraud and liar simply because "his enemy" was a venture capitalist. He has done mu;ch to harm the legitimacy of LENR / CF. Not calling him out and holding him accountable is like ignoring Maddoff's criminal ponzi scheme and stating that what he is doing "is interesting". Yes, swindling millions of dollars is interesting, but criminal.

So again, would you be interested in addressing each of the above points as to why you still believe Rossi, even some months after your self set deadline.

Respectfully,

Bob

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Hello Bob

I am going to wait until the end of

this year and reavaluate Rossi support.By then we should know

If Mizuno replications are positive.

If neither seem to be going anywhere

it would be a good time for me to

quit following LENR.

Regards

Sam

It is a real tossup as to which is more stupid: giving Rossi even five more minutes before giving up on him or putting an arbitrary deadline on Mizuno replications.

Quote

I wonder if Rossi might try replicating Mizuno's reactor? He is in a position to copy Mizuno's design and if it works go into rapid production - which I suppose would be everybody's nightmare scenario......

Rossi is into mock devices and fraud, not real technology. His entire life, he's done nothing but garbage. Why would he start now doing good work? Plus, he's into condos and scams, not real reactors.

As to the discussion of "belief"

--------------------------------------------

Definitions of "belief":

1. an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.

"his belief in the value of hard work"

2. trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.

"a belief in democratic politics"

synonyms: faith, trust, reliance, confidence, credence, freedom from doubt; More

In the first definition, that is usually about generalities as in the example and that's fine. In the second definition, it's about facts or methods. Faith, trust, freedom from doubt, have no place in science. Facts, mathematics, conclusions, experiments, controls, calibrations, replications... those are examples of terms which do apply to science. Belief, in the usual sense that "believers" apply it to science, means belief without adequate proof or sufficient evidence. Following beliefs, especially because someone simply told you something is the case, is the quickest way to get flummoxed and cheated. Case in point: those who believe Rossi has or had genuine production of high power from nuclear reactions. We've seen a lot of that belief on faith on this forum and on the Vortex email list, not to mention e-catworld.com, the earlier iterations of ecatworld.com (may it rest in peace) and the Steorn forum.

Quote from interested observer

It is a real tossup as to which is more stupid: giving Rossi even five more minutes before giving up on him or putting an arbitrary deadline on Mizuno replications.

I wish i could put deadlines on Rossi and Muzino.

The best way to get things done if you have the resources.

Quote from interested observer

It is a real tossup as to which is more stupid: giving Rossi even five more minutes before giving up on him or putting an arbitrary deadline on Mizuno replications.

Hi interested observer,

If Mizuno can get replicated, Rossi is eight years ahead. It is that stupid.

Cheers,

JB

Quote from JedRothwell

Rossi debunked himself completely, in the Penon report. I have never seen better proof of a fraud. See:

http://coldfusioncommunity.net…/01/0197.03_Exhibit_3.pdf

The Penon report is self-consistent, and matches a lot of the external data (such as when reactors were stated to be down). The power was well recorded, and the recorded flow is consistent with the capability of the prominent pumps. One Big Frankie goes down, and the flow is 25% less.

The killer is the heat disposal and the changing explanations.

Quote from Alan Fletcher

The Penon report is self-consistent, and matches a lot of the external data (such as when reactors were stated to be down). The power was well recorded, and the recorded flow is consistent with the capability of the prominent pumps. One Big Frankie goes down, and the flow is 25% less.

The killer is the heat disposal and the changing explanations.

Don’t forget the Plant using more electricity than was supplied by the Florida utility for a total of a month.

Rossi is not ahead of Mizuno, but only ahead of Madoff. He is only ahead of Madoff because he is not yet in prison. I am starting to hope for prison more now that I see the fools that fall for his garbage.

Quote from Director

Rossi is way ahead of everyone else in the field. The problem is that on the path he's been on the technology will NEVER be commercialized in any significant way beyond possibly selling heat to a small number of small clients that need small amounts of heat. Even when Rossi manages to close loop the E-Cat SK he will never be willing to share enough info to a potential partner or major investor to start mass manufacturing the technology. The simple truth is that Rossi is getting older and the human aging process is eventually going to catch up with him. If he would share all the details of how the SK works in a patent application, tell a major potential partner how to replicate, and allow them to do so, he might not becoming a multi-billionaire but he could become very wealthy and still have a positive legacy to leave the world. But due to his inventor's syndrome, I don't think that's ever going to happen.

The truth is that Rossi lies constantly, his LENR inventions don’t work, and the few bits of truth that he says are essentially statistically necessary because 100% lies is effectively impossible to do.

Rossi’s truths are like finding little chocolates in steaming piles of shit. They add little to the flavour and don’t detract from the smell.

Quote from Director

Rossi is way ahead of everyone else in the field. The problem is that on the path he's been on the technology will NEVER be commercialized in any significant way beyond possibly selling heat to a small number of small clients that need small amounts of heat. Even when Rossi manages to close loop the E-Cat SK he will never be willing to share enough info to a potential partner or major investor to start mass manufacturing the technology. The simple truth is that Rossi is getting older and the human aging process is eventually going to catch up with him. If he would share all the details of how the SK works in a patent application, tell a major potential partner how to replicate, and allow them to do so, he might not becoming a multi-billionaire but he could become very wealthy and still have a positive legacy to leave the world. But due to his inventor's syndrome, I don't think that's ever going to happen.

Hi @Director,

I am not sure. Rossi is (ultimately) not in it for the money. He wants to succeed. And one of the biggest threats to that success he sees is some more powerful organisation pushing him in a certain direction. A patent troll, fossil fuel burying an invention, the government creating some sort of regulation, etc. The guy is very careful (paranoid?) in who he shares info with. I guess the whole IH story didn't help either. Once more his eagerness to get ahead proved to be a setback. He was very close to losing everything.

I believe that if Rossi sees enough traction he is willing to open-up. Until that time he will make very small steps, with people can trust, towards a product that is undeniable.

Cheers,

JB

The wellknown broken record...small Rossisays steps towards an undeniable product...

In this Big Brother world no one who claims to have found the holy grail in energy production to save mankind and poor countries can really hide such a product, factory, huge engineering team, customer installations, etc. from being leaked to the public...

This would only work, if all will take place in a condo (like the last very convincing demo of a blue metal box) and in Rossi’s imaginary world on JONP. There is really nothing else, isn’t it?

just for fun

https://www.linkedin.com/company/lenr-waerme-dampf-ohne-co2

https://de.marketscreener.com/boersen-barone/Ulrich-Kranz-0825MH-E/biography/

Unternehmenstätigkeit:

Produkt Pre-Launch Marketing

Ecat SK 20 LENR Wärme- und Stromerzeuger

Für LEONARDO CORPORATION, Miami,USA

CEO Dr. Andrea Rossi

Anwendung für die Fernwärme:

Aufbau und Erweiterung von Fernwärmenetzen mit sehr geringen Investitionen.

D.h. kein Heizkraftwerk und keine kostspieligen dicken Rohrleitungen für die Wärmezuführung.

Für weitere Branchen:

Lieferung von preiswerter Wärme und Dampf ohne CO2-Emissionen:

- Fernwärme,

- Chemie,

- Mineralöl-Industrie,

- Papier,

- Lebensmittel

hilarious!

Quote from zorud

The wellknown broken record...small Rossisays steps towards an undeniable product...

In this Big Brother world no one who claims to have found the holy grail in energy production to save mankind and poor countries can really hide such a product, factory, huge engineering team, customer installations, etc. from being leaked to the public...

This would only work, if all will take place in a condo (like the last very convincing demo of a blue metal box) and in Rossi’s imaginary world on JONP. There is really nothing else, isn’t it?

Rossi could be similar to Randy Mills

and his Sun Cell technology.

They think they have a product

ready for market but run into

problems they had not anticipated.

I do not agree!

You can compare everything with everything.

But most times the result is, the two things you have compared, are not equal

Quote from bang99

I do not agree!

You can compare everything with everything.

But most times the result is, the two things you have compared, are not equal

same ship ?

(Nickel, H, mysterious excess heat, no first page on NY times, no peer reviewed journals)