Rossi: The final chapter

    Quote from Curbina


    Hi Walter Pegeto,


    You generalise again.


    Torkel is one guy and i am not sure if he is a big Rossi supporter. I do know that he highlighted the doubtful defence by the clowns of Industrial Heat against Rossi. And that he researched the shady characters that smeared Rossi in that proces. Torkel has been right on a couple of occasions and i would not become a fan of Fred Zoepfl just because he, like you, thinks Rossi is a crackpot.


    Perhaps focus more on what people in the field do and less on what they say.


    Cheers,


    JB

    • Official Post
    Quote from Walter Pegeto

    Fringe, non mainstream, researcher Kenneth Shoulders has not been cited but there is a reference in par 1:


    Puthoff and Piestrup in their paper "Charge confinement by Casimir force" propose, as a possible cause of the high-density charge clustering seen by K. Shoulders and other researchers, the "vacuum pressure" hypothesized in 1948 by H. B. G. Casimir

    if you are going to base all your points of argumentation in the lack of mainstream recognition of ideas that otherwise have a solid experimental basis and are only controversial because their acceptance means science has to go back and review some of its so far accepted assumptions, then I really don’t know what you are doing in LENR-forum. Here we are all “in the fringe” exploring uncharted waters, and challenging widely held views with science and facts, not hierarchy and prestige.

    Rossi says he now has a PR specialist.


    1. Buck November 16, 2019 at 9:55 PM

      Dear Andrea,

      you have previously shared your view on the pivotal nature of permanent SSM, and the evolution from just the Ecat SK to including the Ecat SK Leonardo as offered products/services.

      Now, you indicate to Frank Acland your willingness to invite and demonstrate the Ecat SK Leonardo in action to reliable third parties if SSM is achieved and you are satisfied with the reliability of device.

      Given the importance of permanent SSM, would you consider The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, The International Herald Tribune as examples of reliable third parties worthy of an invitation?

      Sincerely and Respectfully,

      Buck

    2. Andrea Rossi November 17, 2019 at 9:08 AM

      Buck:

      There will be a specialist that will take care of this aspect.

      Thank you for your suggeston,

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

    Quote from Curbina

    Now, this exchange started because the “highly downloaded paper” has been noted by Bruce__H to be written way above his usual English capacity.


    I certainly did note that. But I also remarked that the paper seems beyond Rossi's demonstrated intellectual capacity. Whoever wrote the main part of the paper is not the same person as the Rossi who thinks that you can make blackbody calculations using the spectrum from the Jan 2019 SK demo. That was such a huge conceptual error on Rossi's part that he completely exposed himself. It was funny to see him trying to cover up the mistake on his blog over the next several months.



    Quote from Curbina

    There are professional scientific writers so I am not surprised at all for that, they can take a rough draft and shape it to be readable, that’s all.


    Well in that case why does Rossi's fractured English return in section 5 of the paper?


    My guess regarding all this is that the paper came into Rossi's hands and that he then added sections 5 and 6 to make it sound more ECat-ish. The original author of sections 1-4 is a mystery and may not be in a position to object to Rossi's additions or claim of sole authorship.

    • Official Post

    Well, that’s absolutely in the terrain of speculation. But we know certain otherwise technically sound and capable people have collaborated with il dottore in the past, so it is within the realm of plausibility that this collaboration has continued just in silent mode due to the controversial nature of the good ole dottore.

    Who says we or otherare ignoring all high Q research... this is not common sense.,,,this is just rhetoric..


    The issue in this AB subthread is that Pegeto fails to read ..and fails to realise the ABpaper is high Q research

    which is why the relevant paper is cited more and more. and not just by Rossi..or Rossi's hired physicist

    but by many others..


    On the topic of generalisation, which, I agree with we-cat - can be problematic.


    RB here is I believe casting all debate on unusual physical theories into a "we" vs "you" form in which there are two sides and every comment is parsed is being on one of the other.


    Now, comments may well have that motivation - in which case everyone can see that there is no scientific content, because a new physical theory cannot be proved or disproved by one bit of information.


    My problem here is that RB's replies to my comment assume that they have this "one side or the other" content when they don't. That is as large a generalisation as you can get.


    Specifically here:


    (1) Walter P claims that Rossi's paper has no high quality references


    (2) RB and others replied that it did, quoting the old 1959 references as evidence of this, furthr arguing the point by noting that these are more often cited in recent years than they have been before.


    (3) I point out that there is still an issue if the only high quality citations in a paper are 60 years old because (in an active field like particle physics) that means you are not engaging fully with 60 years worth of new theory and experiment.


    (4) RB then misquotes me and argues that high quality old citations are still high quality - something which I've never gainsaid.


    (5) RB continues to argue that the 1959 (Bohm) reference is high quality.


    All of this ignores the one point I made - that ignoring 60 years of more recent high quality research is a big red flag. If you want to replace it by something else you still need to reference it to argue why your version is better.


    I've nothing against people picking up old ideas and recasting them, and running with that. There is a long and honourable history of this. However, to make the running, you need to reference the way the later work that your development of old ideas aims to replace showing why what you have is overall better than what developed organically over 60 years.


    Specifically, if a paper about new theory does not reference recent research (except for a few similar-minded outliers) we can be sure that it is making no argument for the new theory to be better than the stuff that is not referenced. And that is pretty well all of modern particle physics.


    All my comments, somewhat supportive of WP's comments on the Rossi paper, can be replied to by showing how that paper does engage fully with modern particle physics - for example by quoting high quality modern references. I'm sort of surprised no-one has done this - or else noted the absence of it in the Rossi paper as a defect but also that others have done it. Instead there is this "us versus them" mentality. A really bad idea generally, but specifically bad if "us" includes Rossi, or a naive paper written by a Rossi convert.


    Finally on the language of the Rossi paper - of course it is not Rossi. He could not write a research paper (even a bad one). He is on record as using totally illogical and incorrect arguments to support his (wrong) ideas about basic testing of his demos, such as concepts on 3 phase power, on measurement of power from average ac voltage and current meters, on measurement of power in load circuit (that one even got into one of his papers - the co-author must have left it to Rossi, possible since it was a small part describing experimental results).


    But Rossi is good at persuading people and naivetee is as much present amongst Nuclear physics PhDs as in the population as a whole. Perhaps more!

    The Nobel committee has refused to assign the Nobel prize to Yakir Aharonov:


    https://www.jpost.com/Health-a…out-on-Nobel-Prize-156853



    Few people, in LENR field, have cited the controversial Aharonov-Bohm effect. One notable exception is the ENEA technical report "Rapporto-41".


    "This effect is analogous to the well known Böhm-Aharonov effect [20] where the dynamics of a quantum system are

    affected by a change in the e.m. potential through a modification of the phase of the wave function."


    http://www.fusione.enea.it/pub…R/2002/RT-2002-41-FUS.pdf


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    Quote from THHuxleynew

    But Rossi is good at persuading people and naivetee is as much present amongst Nuclear physics PhDs as in the population as a whole. Perhaps more!

    Hi THHuxleynew,


    Half an hour spent on another post in a long line of posts where the self- glorification of THHuxleynew forms the basis.


    Just a remark on the last part: Has it ever crossed your mind that he is good at persuading people because he actually has something? It would make sense, no?


    Cheers,


    JB

    Is this for real ?


    https://drive.google.com/drive…Ktdce19-wyb1RxOTF6c2NtZkk


    A large list of Rossi patents


    https://drive.google.com/drive…Ktdce19-wyb1RxOTF6c2NtZkk


    12/736,193 September 16, 2010 Method and Apparatus for Carrying Out Nickel and Hydrogen Exothermal Reaction

    61/626,287 September 26, 2011 High Efficiency Heat Generator

    61/629,960 December 2, 2011 High Efficiency Heat Generator of Second Generation

    61/744,570 October 1, 2012 High Efficiency Heat Generator with Rossi-Effect

    61/795,938 October 31, 2012 Process and Apparatus to Make Heat at High Temperature with Reactions between Metals and Hydrogen

    61/796,007 November 1, 2012 Control System for a Thermal Power Assembly Made by More Modules

    61/796,008 November 1, 2012 High Efficiency Thermal Power Generator System

    61/848,143 December 22, 2012 New Theory Regarding Reactions between Nickel, Lithium, Hydrogen: Weak Interaction Energy

    61/855,456 May 16, 2013 System of Activator and Reactor to Improve the cop of LENR Reactors

    61/957,873 July 15, 2013 Direct Conversion of Photons into Electric Energy During a LEHR Process

    61/958,962 August 12, 2013 Additive for Exothermic Reactions

    61/960,510 September 20, 2013 System to Increase Pressure

    61/960,810 September 27, 2013 Irradiation System to Increase the Rossi-Effect

    Unknown October 1, 2013 (mailing date) Enrichment of 62 and 64 Ni Isotoped Process and Apparatus

    61/961,286 October 10, 2013 White Dwarf Derived Theory, Process, Apparatus

    Unknown October 15, 2013 (mailing date) Particular Application with Fast Reactions of the Rossi-Effect

    61/961,813 October 24, 2013 Particular Resistive Electric Heater

    61,961,814 October 24, 2013 Gas Operated Energy Catalyzer

    61/961,864 October 25, 2013 High Efficiency Thermal Power Generator System

    Unknown October 26, 2013 (mailing date) Process and Apparatus to Make Heat at High Temperature with Metals and Hydrogen

    61/961,994 October 29, 2013 Vacuum Enhanced Reactor

    61/962,001 October 29, 2013 X Rays Transparent Reactor

    Unknown November 5, 2013 (mailing date) Direct Conversion of Photons into Electric Energy

    61/962,366 November 6, 2013 Gas Operated Energy Catalyzer

    Unknown November 10, 2013 (mailing date) High Efficiency Heat Generator with Rossi-Effect

    61/962,530 November 12, 2013 Control System for a Thermal Power Assembly Blade by More Modules

    61/963,594 December 9, 2013 Particular Induction Electric Heater

    Unknown December 20, 2013 (mailing date) New Theory regarding Reactions between Nickel, Lithium, Hydrogen: Weak Interaction Energy and in a Mirror Effect Reactor

    Unknown January 27, 2014 (mailing date) Electric Oven with Radiating External Wall

    61/967,660 March 24, 2014 3D Printing Production System for Energy Catalyzers

    61/967,664 March 24, 2014 X-Ray Transparent Reactor and its Application in a Jet Engine

    61/967,781 March 27, 2014 High Pressure Electric Heater with Heat Exchanger

    61,967,784 March 27, 2014 Resistive Electric Heater Made Only by Resistive Ceramics

    Unknown April 18, 2014 (mailing date) High Power Density Energy Catalyzer

    61/996,282 May 5, 2014 System of Activator and Reactor to Improve COP of LENR Reactors

    61/996,415 May 8, 2014 Gas Energy Catalyzer with Ceramic Honeycat

    61/996,731 May 15, 2014 System to Avoid Catastrophic Effect on Energy Catalyzers

    61/997,244 May 27, 2014 System to Avoid Biased Reactions in an Energy Catalyzer

    Unknown June 4, 2014 (mailing date) Particular Integration of Solar Energy with Energy Catalyzers

    62/071,455 September 25, 2014 Nuclear mechanism underlying the “rossi effect”

    62/071,456 September 25, 2014 Irradiation system to increase the Rossi effect

    62/071,603 September 29, 2014 Lithium and nickel isotopes enrichment systems

    62/122,050 October 10, 2014 White dwarf derived theory, process, and apparatus

    62/122,154 October 14, 2014 Apparatus to produce heat with nickel and lithium

    Unknown October 15, 2014 (mailing date) Particular Application with Fast Reactions of the Rossi Effect

    62/123,147 November 10, 2014 X Rays Transparent Reactor with 1 HEV Excitation

    Unknown October 21, 2014 Gas Operated Energy Catalyzer

    62/122,832 October 23, 2014 High Efficiency Thermal Power Generator System

    Unknown October 26, 2014 Process and Apparatus to Make Heat at High Temperature with Metals and Hydrogen

    Unknown October 27, 2014 Particular Resistive Electric Heater

    Unknown October 27, 2014 Vacuum Enhanced Reactor

    Unknown November 1, 2014 Enrichment of 62 and 64 Ni Isotopes Apparatus and Process

    62/123,196 November 10, 2014 Gas Operated Energy Catalyzer

    62/123,057 November 6, 2014 Direct Converter of Photons into Electric Energy

    62/123,195 November 10, 2014 Control System for a Thermal Power Assembly Made by More Modules

    62/122,978 November 4, 2014 High Efficiency Heat Generator with Rossi-Effect

    62/123,396 November 17, 2014 Resistive Electric Heater Made Conductive Ceramics Activated by a Resistance and a High Voltage Generator

    62/124,111 December 9, 2014 Particular resistive electric heater

    62/124,112 December 9, 2014 Electric heater with direct electricity injection

    62/124,113 December 9, 2014 Particular induction electric heater

    62/124,114 December 9, 2014 Theory regarding reaction between nickel, lithium, hydrogen weak interaction energy and in a mirror effect reactor

    62/124,306 December 15, 2014 Voltage driven heater

    62/124,802 January 5, 2015 Small dimensions energy catalyzer by rossi effect

    62/124,803 January 5, 2015 Electric oven with radiating external wall

    62/176,113 February 10, 2015 Hydryde molecule

    62/176,114 February 10, 2015 Intertwined metal wire to increase the amperage of electric heaters

    62/176,213 February 13, 2015 Nuclear structure theory for the energy catalyzer (E-Cat)

    62/176,221 February 13, 2015 White dwarf derived pressure system combined with casimir effect and van der waals forces

    Unknown February 23, 2015 New Hydride Molecule

    Unknown February 24, 2015 Intertwined Metal Wire to Increase the Amperage of Electric Heaters

    Unknown February 24, 2015 White Dwarf Derived Pressure System Combined with Casimir Effect and Van der Waals Forces

    62/177,710 March 23, 2015 3D Printing Production System for Energy Catalyzers

    62/177,708 March 23, 2015 X-Rays Transparent Reactor and its Application in a Jet Engine

    62/177,707 March 23, 2015 High Pressure Electric Heater with Heat Exchanger

    Unknown March 23, 2015 High Pressure Electric Heater with High Voltage Regulation and Heat Exchanger

    Unknown March 23, 2015 Resistive Electric Heater Made only by Resistive Ceramics

    62/178,261 April 6, 2015 Resistive Electric Heater Made only by Conductive Ceramics

    62/178,270 April 6, 2015 High Power Density Energy Catalyzer

    62/179,160 April 30, 2015 High pressure electric heater with high voltage regulation + heat exchanger

    Unknown May 5, 2015 System of activator and reactor to improve the COP of LEHR reactors

    Unknown May 5, 2105 GA energy catalyzer with ceramic honeycat

    62/230,745 June 15, 2015 Particular integration of solar energy with energy catalyzers

    62/230,746 June 15, 2015 System to avoid biased reactions in an energy catalyzer

    62/230,747 June 15, 2015 System to avoid catastrophic effect on energy catalyzers

    62/231,078 June 25, 2015 Reverse Mossbauer Effect Electricity and Heat Generator

    Unknown July 5, 2015 Additive for Esothermic Reactions with Hydrides, Hydrogen, Deuterium and Nickel, in particular, LiARH4

    62/231,454 July 6, 2015 New System Press for Nickel and Lithium Powders or Grains

    62/231,457 July 7, 2015 Direct Conversion of Photons into Electrical Energy during a LEHR Process with a Gold Lined Reactor

    62/231,456 July 7, 2015 Apparatus to Produce Anomalous Amount of Energy

    62/231,455 July 7, 2015 Rossi Effect and apparatus to produce heat with high efficiency

    62/231,671 July 11, 2015 Triangular and Flat Resistances Electric Heater

    62/283,100 August 21, 2015 Lithium depletion process and apparatus

    62/283,283 August 27, 2015 Transformer for very high voltages

    62/283,635 September 8, 2015 System to increase pressure

    62/283,640 September 8, 2015 Lithium and nickel isotopes enrichment systems

    62/283,634 September 8, 2015 The nuclear mechanism underlying the "rossi effect"

    Unknown September 23, 2015 Irradiation system to increase the rossi-effect and produce direct current

    62/284,645 October 6, 2015 White dwarf derived theory, process, apparatus and its applications

    62/284,644 October 6, 2015 Gas operated energy catalyzer

    Unknown October 23, 2015 High efficiency thermal power generation system

    Unknown October 26, 2015 Process and apparatus to make heat at high temperature with metals and hydrogen

    62/284,647 October 6, 2015 Particular resistive electric heater

    62/284,646 October 27, 2015 Vacuum enhanced reactor

    Unknown October 21, 2015 X-rays transparent reactor with 1 MEV exicitation

    Unknown November 1, 2015 Enrichment of 62 and 64 Ni isotopes apparatus and process

    Unknown November 1, 2015 Gas operated energy catalyzer

    Unknown November 5, 2015 Direct converter of photons into electric energy

    Unknown November 10, 2015 High efficiency heat generator with Rossi-effect

    62/386,560 December 7, 2015 Particular induction electric heater

    Unknown December 5, 2015 New theory regarding reaction between nickel, lithium, hydrogen weak interaction energy and in a mirror effect reactor

    Unknown December 5, 2015 Resistive electric heater made conductive ceramics activated by a resistance and a high voltage generator able to be used as a jet engine

    62/386,609 December 7, 2015 Electric heater with direct electricity injection

    62/386,562 December 7, 2015 Voltage driven heater

    62/285,684 November 6, 2015 Particular application with fast reactions of the Rossi effect

    Unknown December 3, 2015 Nickel graphite catalizer

    62/386,569 December 7, 2015 Unknown

    62/387,940 January 12, 2016 Particular resistive electric heater

    Unknown January 13, 2016 Electric oven with radiation external wall

    Unknown January 13, 2016 Small dimensions energy catalyzer by Rossi effect

    62/388,774 February 8, 2016 White dwarf derived pressure system combined with casimer effect and van der waals forces

    62/388,777 February 8, 2016 Intertwined metal wire to increase the amperage of electric heaters

    62/388,776 February 8, 2016 Nuclear structure theory for the energy catalyzer (E-cat)

    Unknown February 2, 2016 New hydride molecule

    Unknown February 5, 2016 Generator of light, electricity and heat

    Unknown February 11, 2016 Fluid heater at high voltage


    EDIT: there are three more in "Exhibit B" in the same document:


    Unknown March 21, 2016 3D printing production system for energy catalyzers

    Unknown March 21, 2016 X-rays transparent reactor and its application in a jet engine

    Unknown March 23, 2016 Resistive electric heater made only by resistive ceramics


    we_cat:


    He has, from the whole internet, a very small and decreasing number of converts. He is (we know from Marcia's long and revealing write-up on him) passionate about his work and a confident and impressive speaker. He promises something that would be worth billions and revolutionise science.


    I'd say given his natural advantages in charisma and a peak wish-fulfillment topic that his success is now very small. That is because now no-one can avoid his long history of lies and 100% non-performance, and unlike you most people draw conclusions from that.



    [too much self-glorification for you? :) I should change my name to Rossi and be a misunderstood anti-establishment inventor... ]


    Short answer: Aharonov Bohm theory paper is well known, but the effect is controversial.


    Now, please show me a paper where the electric Aharonov Bohm effect has been experimental verified!

    Quote from RobertBryant

    Please use Google..stop embarrassing yourself...Walter

    Hilarious!

    It's not even necessary a google search!


    It's sufficient your preferred information source, wikipedia:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aharonov–Bohm_effect


    "An electric Aharonov–Bohm phenomenon was also predicted, in which a charged particle is affected by regions with different electrical potentials but zero electric field, but this has no experimental confirmation yet."


    Please use wikipedia and keep us entertained!

    ------------------------------------------


    Is this also for real ?

    Rossi’s E-Cat and Emergent Properties of Irreducible Wholes

    Hi THHuxleynew,


    “Decreasing number of converts”? I see a different reality.


    An increasing number of initiatives that are much like what Rossi presented or are blatant copies, an increasing interest in his papers :-), the reality check that the clowns at Industrial Heat have always been the deceivers, Team Rossi going strong and an increase in confidence from Il Dottore himself.


    Cheers,


    JB

    Quote from Walter Pegeto

    Please use wikipedia and keep us entertained!


    please adjust your loose English Walter


    "Aharonov Bohm theory paper is well known, the effect is controversial."


    The effect is not controversial .. except in Pegeto physics.


    The Aharonov–Bohm effect is a fundamental issue in physics. It describes the physically important electromagnetic quantities in quantum mechanics. Its experimental verification constitutes a test of the theory of quantum mechanics itself. The remarkable experiments of Tonomura et al. [“Observation of Aharonov-Bohm effect by electron holography,” Phys. Rev. Lett 48, 1443 (1982) and “Evidence for Aharonov-Bohm effect with magnetic field completely shielded from electron wave,” Phys. Rev. Lett 56, 792 (1986)] are widely considered as the only experimental evidence of the physical existence of the Aharonov–Bohm effect. Here we give the first rigorous proof that the classical ansatz of Aharonov and Bohm of 1959 [“Significance of electromagnetic potentials in the quantum theory,” Phys. Rev. 115, 485 (1959)], that was tested by Tonomura et al., is a good approximation to the exact solution to the Schrödinger equation. This also proves that the electron, that is, represented by the exact solution, is not accelerated, in agreement with the recent experiment of Caprez et al. in 2007 [“Macroscopic test of the Aharonov–Bohm effect,” Phys. Rev. Lett. 99, 210401 (2007)], that shows that the results of the Tonomura et al. experiments can not be explained by the action of a force. Under the assumption that the incoming free electron is a Gaussian wave packet, we estimate the exact solution to the Schrödinger equation for all times. We provide a rigorous, quantitative error bound for the difference in norm between the exact solution and the Aharonov–Bohm Ansatz. Our bound is uniform in time. We also prove that on the Gaussian asymptotic state the scattering operator is given by a constant phase shift, up to a quantitative error bound that we provide. Our results show that for intermediate size electron wave packets, smaller than the ones used in the Tonomura et al. experiments, quantum mechanics predicts the results observed by Tonomura et al. with an error bound smaller than 10−9910−99. It would be quite interesting to perform experiments with electron wave packets of intermediate size. Furthermore, we provide a physical interpretation of our error bound.




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