Rossi: The final chapter

    Quote from LeBob

    Has one asked what the power rating is for the base module, 10cm a side version. Personally I'm trying to figure out the company/'s to take serious, who is gonna bring an effective release in 2020?


    Mills is the most realistic intuitively along with Holmid's work and SAFIRE, but Rossi may just have something. I realised Safire researchers may have some agendas due to a connection with Gaia, Hal Putoff's parapsychology background and more spiritualist/paranormal interpretations of scientific results.. These things, I notice, often coincide with the ZPE over unity crowd. They are hesitant to say ZPE isn't involved in their experiments. Mills, Holmid, Wyttenbach, Rossi and others interpret that their results have nothing to do with such debatably metaphysical phenomena. Am not saying that every name I mentioned is the eptom of transparent science though.

    Das Narrenschiff (live)

    Wish there was translation, that was beautiful and simple still... As someone who believes in more than what we can comprehend, I think that the development of technology should be for our practical benifit based on experimental results regardless of if it fits into our view of the next steps for humanity. I would be completely overjoyed if all we found was hydrino like superchemical reaction power densities, and low energy practical transmutation, both with many potential spinoff possibilities. They want time/interdementional travel, pocket universes, and truly infinite energy. People want what is only possible to an infinite entity independant from the laws of physics. I understand "magic" is just technology from the perspective we don't understand it yet and am happy what we are heading to could be so transformative it will seem supernatural to those who are uninitiated. Would posit even the angels follow the laws of physics, "magic" level tech is under the law, all but the Godhead. Rant over, with love.

    Quote from Walter Pegeto

    Das Narrenschiff (live)


    At timepoint 8:11 he says 1g of hydrogen lasts about 24hrs. It is easy to calculate hydrino energy and that would be about 3kW.

    Hydrino chemical reactions do that. At the end of the video he does a belabored calculation of the heat output and says is in that ballpark.

    I see nothing here that anyone in the world cannot accomplish by copying Mills' early work.

    Quote from LeBob

    Wish there was translation, that was beautiful and simple still... As someone who believes in more than what we can comprehend, I think that the development of technology should be for our practical benifit based on experimental results regardless of if it fits into our view of the next steps for humanity. I would be completely overjoyed if all we found was hydrino like superchemical reaction power densities, and low energy practical transmutation, both with many potential spinoff possibilities. They want time/interdementional travel, pocket universes, and truly infinite energy. People want what is only possible to an infinite entity independant from the laws of physics. I understand "magic" is just technology from the perspective we don't understand it yet and am happy what we are heading to could be so transformative it will seem supernatural to those who are uninitiated. Would posit even the angels follow the laws of physics, "magic" level tech is under the law, all but the Godhead. Rant over, with love.

    it's a world of magick!



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    Quote from Navid

    At timepoint 8:11 he says 1g of hydrogen lasts about 24hrs. It is easy to calculate hydrino energy and that would be about 3kW.

    Hydrino chemical reactions do that. At the end of the video he does a belabored calculation of the heat output and says is in that ballpark.

    I see nothing here that anyone in the world cannot accomplish by copying Mills' early work.

    Hi, I appreciate what you bring to this forum. Again Mills and Holmids work seems to best explain what is going on in the plasma based experiments, heat and light with no to minimal ionizing output. The waste is useful but hard to detect, makes more sense than coming from nothing. I have to ask how much hydrogen is needed for a device to work at 3, 20 and 27kw respectively for 6 months assuming recycled catalysts? Just as an upper limit, to compare to what Rossi/others claim so in the future we can define if nuclear energy is involved or claims are based on all your company claims.

    Quote from LeBob

    Hi, I appreciate what you bring to this forum. Again Mills and Holmids work seems to best explain what is going on in the plasma based experiments, heat and light with no to minimal ionizing output. The waste is useful but hard to detect, makes more sense than coming from nothing. I have to ask how much hydrogen is needed for a device to work at 3, 20 and 27kw respectively for 6 months assuming recycled catalysts? Just as an upper limit, to compare to what Rossi/others claim so in the future we can define if nuclear energy is involved or claims are based on all your company claims.


    We are left to believe that some infrequent rare nuclear fusion is going on in the e-Cat for which why would they need 1g of hydrogen at all - since the number of fusion events would be small but very energetic! OR, we have a chemical process and we would need 1G of hydrogen.


    The expected output of a v1 Suncell imo is about 500kW/sq/meter - that is my calculation. It could go way up from there.

    If we are making chemical fusion at much higher densities - then this is nothing like fusion in the sun. A human being radiates more energy per volume than the fusion reaction in the sun. The sun is just big.


    As for LENR, if someone can write down the fusion reaction and expected rate of the fusion events, and then the expected energy density from that reaction, it would be great. Rossi or other

    Quote from Walter Pegeto

    it's a world of magick!



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    Quaint... this is not how you broaden the audience politically though. What about scientists/publications, christians like me, who will be turned of by this? I'm here for scientific curiosity, a love for sci-fi, new tech and out of support for the sustainable growth of all. LENR-like technology is a miracle practically materialised as far as I am concerned. It potencially turns amounts of plentiful gasses, water and scrap metal into a whole heap of energy! IMO most genuinely beneficial scientific discoveries are devinely inspired, but I wouldn't personally give the credit to pagan medieval magick. Maybe we are understanding this stuff again because in the past we worshipped it, greedily building elitist spiritual systems around science, instead of responsibly using it as a tool! Maybe I know nothing lol.

    Rossi said the verification entity will have access to the black box, but it turns out the box is BLUE! :/:S



    Quote from Navid

    We are left to believe that some infrequent rare nuclear fusion is going on in the e-Cat for which why would they need 1g of hydrogen at all - since the number of fusion events would be small but very energetic! OR, we have a chemical process and we would need 1G of hydrogen.


    The expected output of a v1 Suncell imo is about 500kW/sq/meter - that is my calculation. It could go way up from there.

    If we are making chemical fusion at much higher densities - then this is nothing like fusion in the sun. A human being radiates more energy per volume than the fusion reaction in the sun. The sun is just big.


    As for LENR, if someone can write down the fusion reaction and expected rate of the fusion events, and then the expected energy density from that reaction, it would be great. Rossi or other

    Thanks for the productive clear response. Was asking about applying these numbers to the current claims by Rossi and others. Though infrequent wouldn't atomic reactions happen in a hydrino based reactor at a higher rate than expected otherwise? And couldn't one engineer a reactor to the point where say 50% of the energy came from hydrino/muon atomic output? Navid 6 months has been his recent claim!

    Quote from Navid

    We are left to believe that some infrequent rare nuclear fusion is going on in the e-Cat for which why would they need 1g of hydrogen at all - since the number of fusion events would be small but very energetic! OR, we have a chemical process and we would need 1G of hydrogen.


    The expected output of a v1 Suncell imo is about 500kW/sq/meter - that is my calculation. It could go way up from there.

    If we are making chemical fusion at much higher densities - then this is nothing like fusion in the sun. A human being radiates more energy per volume than the fusion reaction in the sun. The sun is just big.


    As for LENR, if someone can write down the fusion reaction and expected rate of the fusion events, and then the expected energy density from that reaction, it would be great. Rossi or other


    Until the SunCell, Mills struggled to get power density. Not enough H was reacting to form hydrino. But let's say with the SunCell all hydrogen is getting converted to H(1/4)


    Given that 1 gram of hydrogen is about 6*10^23 hydrogen atoms (Avogadro's number),

    Given that the energy potential of H(1) is about 27eV and H(1/4) is about 435eV (page 32 of 2018 GUTCP),

    Given that there is about 1.6 * 10^-19 Joules per eV,

    Given that there are about 2.8 * 10^-7 kWh per Joule,

    And ignoring the molecular binding energy of H2(1/4),

    And ignoring energy input to facilitate the reaction,


    We have 1 gram of hydrogen yielding (6*10^23) * (435-27) * (1.6*10^-19) * (2.8 * 10^-7) kWh =~ 11 kWh of energy from hydrino formation.


    With Rossi's 2011 device shown to Krivit, 1 gram of hydrogen would apparently generate about 5kWh/h * 24hr = 120kWh of energy from LENR.


    So that's about a order of magnitude difference in energy density.


    Today in the eCat SK a charge of perhaps 100g of metal hydride can last for 6 months in the eCat SK. Compare that to the preSunCell era in 2008 when Mills' powdered Raney nickel reactions performed at Rowan University generated a heat spike lasting mere seconds. Very different animals.


    I didn't see the funny, sorry. What I see is the potential problem in assuming all the water escaping from the tube was steam, rather than hot liquid water. (The energy required for vaporization is immense compared to raising the temperature of liquid water.) In fact at 11:05 of the first video Rossi lifted the black tube way up for a few seconds before he pulled the end out of the wall. It seems evident that he was draining any possible liquid water out of the tube first. Now, such possible liquid water accumulation may have just been condensate from cooling through the pipe, but we can't say for sure.

    Quote

    Today in the eCat SK a charge of perhaps 100g of metal hydride can last for 6 months in the eCat SK.

    Actually it lasts forever or more precisely, an indefinite amount of time, because there is no reaction in any of Rossi's device. Anyway, none has been demonstrated properly. Ever. I suspect that Mills' reactions are similar. They last until a short time after he turns off the huge power input and the only reason that even happens if because of the thermal capacity of the apparatus.

    Quote from seven_of_twenty

    Actually it lasts forever or more precisely, an indefinite amount of time, because there is no reaction in any of Rossi's device. Anyway, none has been demonstrated properly. Ever. I suspect that Mills' reactions are similar. They last until a short time after he turns off the huge power input and the only reason that even happens if because of the thermal capacity of the apparatus.


    Ahh brethren, what do you have to loose if any compact non intermittent power source better than what we currently have is discovered or unveiled? Ain't saying it is Rossi, not saying it is anyone. I'm just emploring that a little optimism and attempting to see a powerful productive solution, any solution, would be lovely!


    Mills didn't struggle to get e-cat power density. He couldnt make the process commercially competitive with the regeneration of reactants at scale. These are commercial details that Rossi probably hasnt' worked out either. Meaning - "open up the ecat and stick in more powder" is not a solution. Only people who've never had to commercialize a product speak in a way to suggest Mills is a fraud, and that if he was real he'd just make something in a few years and be done with it. It can take a long time to perfect a process, and sometimes the process cant be perfected so you have to try an alternate means. That is the challenge of being a pioneer.


    There is 0% chance Rossi is doing anything different - he's telegraphing his copying. He even references patented work by Mills, has a theory which claims to be nuclear - but we all can see it is probably written by somebody else to justify the supposed novelty of his invention. The fact that he now messages it is really chemical energy tells us he doesnt believe his own theory and patents.


    The claim 100g of metal hydride can last for 6 months in the eCat - that sounds like you've torn apart the machine and know how it works? Is there any water input? (seems like he said there is) How do you know that's not a source of hydrogen?

    Quote from Navid

    Mills didn't struggle to get e-cat power density. He couldnt make the process commercially competitive with the regeneration of reactants at scale. These are commercial details that Rossi probably hasnt' worked out either. Meaning - "open up the ecat and stick in more powder" is not a solution. Only people who've never had to commercialize a product speak in a way to suggest Mills is a fraud, and that if he was real he'd just make something in a few years and be done with it. It can take a long time to perfect a process, and sometimes the process cant be perfected so you have to try an alternate means. That is the challenge of being a pioneer.


    There is 0% chance Rossi is doing anything different - he's telegraphing his copying. He even references patented work by Mills, has a theory which claims to be nuclear - but we all can see it is probably written by somebody else to justify the supposed novelty of his invention. The fact that he now messages it is really chemical energy tells us he doesnt believe his own theory and patents.


    The claim 100g of metal hydride can last for 6 months in the eCat - that sounds like you've torn apart the machine and know how it works? Is there any water input? (seems like he said there is) How do you know that's not a source of hydrogen?


    Technically you are correct about the Raney Nickel power density. For the first time in Mills' various ways to extract hydrino energy, the Raney Nickel method produced high power density. Problem was, it was very short lived. Seconds. Mills said he had a way to recharge the powder, but it was never revealed or demonstrated, not even as a lab prototype. I've been following Mills since 2000 and remember it well. So as far as I'm concerned, the Raney Nickel attempt, although it got media publicity, was my least favourite iteration. The subsequent CIHT cell - which produced electricity directly but involved hot molten salts - had the most promise and development, but the power density was still much too low. The true breakthrough came with the SunCell method of high electrical current (involving negative differential resistance in plasma) beginning in early 2014.


    About the metal hydride powder charge in the E-cat, of course I'm only going by Rossisays. The powder is sealed in a tube, and the whole tube has to be replaced in 6 months or a year. Not a hard thing to do. No water added. The hydrogen comes from the dry metal hydride powder. Again, this is from what Rossi has said for the last several years,and no one else afaik.


    Rossi's inventions are much more 'impossible' than Mills' inventions. Mills' progress has been relatively slow over almost three decades, with the occasional evolutionary jump. Nothing thus far has made it to the commercial stage. This is quite natural. Rossi on the other hand has inventions that have made it to a (secretive) commercial stage after a relatively short and intense development stage. This seems almost - miraculous, too good to be true. Given it is true, Rossi must be placed squarely in the company of other Italian geniuses of renown.


    Rossi has said recently that the energy from his process is not cold fusion or LENR, but don't take that as him messaging that the process is chemical. His papers say otherwise.

    Rossi has said recently that the energy from his process is not cold fusion or LENR, but don't take that as him messaging that the process is chemical. His papers say otherwise.


    We could take it that Rossi is unreliable and what he says is calculated to appeal to his audience with no concern for truth, e.g.:


    • is not nuclear (US inspectors)
    • is nuclear (LENR forums)
    • robot factories (everyone when he wants to distract attention from a flaky demo)


    So it has always been with Rossi: he cares more about his image than about technical accuracy. And that is an understatement that minimises the disconnect between truth and Rossisays!


    THH

    Well these plasma powerplants are either a miracle nuclear process, a resonant catalytic chemical process or some electro/resonant symbiosis of the two. Would yall agree?

    Quote from LeBob

    Well these plasma powerplants are either a miracle nuclear process, a resonant catalytic chemical process or some electro/resonant symbiosis of the two. Would yall agree?


    Of the three choices, I would go with doors 2 and 3. 2 for Mills and 3 for Rossi. Mills is all about electronic configuration (chemistry) and resonance. Hardly anything to do with the nucleus. Meanwhile Rossi's paper (as I read it) is about electronic configuration well outside the nucleus remotely coupling with and effecting nuclear configuration. To my view, two very different processes and end products.

    Well, Rossi's views have evolved over time, so I wouldn't expect perfect consistency about how he may have classified the process. It is not nuclear collision, which most think of when they think nuclear. And just think, Rossi proactively distancing himself from association with typically understood nuclear processes seems to imply he is serious about getting over potential nuclear regulatory hurdles, which in turn seems to imply he is serious about bringing a real product to market.

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