Rossi: The final chapter

Quote from seven_of_twenty

Actually it lasts forever or more precisely, an indefinite amount of time, because there is no reaction in any of Rossi's device. Anyway, none has been demonstrated properly. Ever. I suspect that Mills' reactions are similar. They last until a short time after he turns off the huge power input and the only reason that even happens if because of the thermal capacity of the apparatus.

That is an interesting proposal, that it is only the retained thermal energy of Mills SunCell apparatus which causes the plasma to persist for so long after the electricity is turned off. I don't think it stands up to scrutiny however. In fact I have yet to hear any plausible mainstream scenario why hydrogen gas and trace amounts of water, in a high current, low voltage environment, should produce such an energetic plasma at all, let alone one that is more energetic than the input energy.

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Ahh brethren, what do you have to loose if any compact non intermittent power source better than what we currently have is discovered or unveiled? Ain't saying it is Rossi, not saying it is anyone. I'm just emploring that a little optimism and attempting to see a powerful productive solution, any solution, would be lovely!

You are free to be as optimistic as you like. It won't make the slightest difference unless you are actively doing or supporting work. Rossi is a crook. Giving him any sort of support detracts from real work on LENR.

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Rossi's inventions are much more 'impossible' than Mills' inventions. Mills' progress has been relatively slow over almost three decades, with the occasional evolutionary jump. Nothing thus far has made it to the commercial stage. This is quite natural. Rossi on the other hand has inventions that have made it to a (secretive) commercial stage after a relatively short and intense development stage. This seems almost - miraculous, too good to be true. Given it is true, Rossi must be placed squarely in the company of other Italian geniuses of renown.

No. Nonsense! Rossi is squarely in the company of people like Bernie Madoff except he is not as "successful."

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Well, Rossi's views scams have evolved over time,

TIFIFY

Mark U I was only referring to heat. I know nothing about Mills' claims regarding plasmas. I would suggest being suspicious of those as well. In almost 30 years, Mills has never demonstrated any device of any use whatsoever.

Quote from Mark U

Of the three choices, I would go with doors 2 and 3. 2 for Mills and 3 for Rossi. Mills is all about electronic configuration (chemistry) and resonance. Hardly anything to do with the nucleus. Meanwhile Rossi's paper (as I read it) is about electronic configuration well outside the nucleus remotely coupling with and effecting nuclear configuration. To my view, two very different processes and end products.

And the SAFIRE project probably is doing the same thing?

Quote from seven_of_twenty

You are free to be as optimistic as you like. It won't make the slightest difference unless you are actively doing or supporting work. Rossi is a crook. Giving him any sort of support detracts from real work on LENR.

Touche! I think expressing possibility and driving traffic to LENR posts online, no matter how small the effect, is a first stage personal part to helping for me!

A lot of patterns that don't take a nuclear physics PhD to connect dots in all the data! Of course a PhD is a wonderful respectable accomplishment!

Quote from Rjzk

The situation is even more exotic if the resistance is negative:

The slope of the IV curve might be negative but the resistance is never negative.

Why not provide appropriate references in support of this assertion?

@Director

I seriously think you should provide references whenever possible because from a detached perspective it isn't clear at all whether what you're reporting is correct and how much of your own spin you're putting on what look like absolute statements.

For instance, the "complex space charge configuration" term you so often cite originates and is almost exclusively used by a couple Romanian research groups (prominent members being Sebastian Popescu and Dan-Gheorghe Dimitriu). This does not necessarily imply it's pseudoscience, but it's not a widely recognized definition or subject as you're making it look.

You can easily work around the hassle of keeping references and notes organized by using a personal note taking application like for example OneNote, which also has a decent search feature.

1. Frank Acland December 1, 2019 at 6:12 PM

   Dear Andrea,

   There is a saying, “If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.” To many, what you claim regarding the SKL sounds too good to be true.

   A lot is resting on the verification of your technology, and I think independent corroboration of your claims by the verifying entity will be very important in terms of convincing the wider world of the validity your technology.

   1. Is the verifying entity independent of Leonardo Corp and any business partners you have?

   2. Will the report made by the verifying entity be made public to the world?

   3. Will the report include images and video of the SKL?

   4. Will the verifying entity participate in your presentation?

   Many thanks,

   Frank Acland

2. Translate Andrea Rossi December 2, 2019 at 12:46 AM

   Frank Acland:

   1- yes

   2- yes

   3- yes

   4- I think so

   Warm Regards,

   A.R.

Quote from Director

The resistance IS negative!

If you go online there are papers that describe how the complex space charge configuration is converting heat energy into electrical current.

If you google the topic of a negative resistor, also quite intresting results come up, that fit nicely to AR's story, related to "Free Energy/Pseudoscience"...

(this one from Psiram (former EsoWatch) in german only, unfortunately... https://www.psiram.com/de/index.php/Negativer_Widerstand)

If you check out papers from the groups related to the researchers I previously named you can see most of the "keywords" featured in Director's posts. They seem to work or have worked with glow discharges however and I haven't found yet if they ever mentioned any anomalous effect that could be attributable to LENR. Below are a couple examples.

Negative differential resistance related to self-organization phenomena in a dc gas discharge by E.Lozneanu, V. Popescu, and M. Sanduloviciu (2002)

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Oscillations stimulated by an S-shaped negative differential resistance originating from the self-assembly and decay of a self-organized space charge configuration in front of the anode of a dc gas discharge were observed. The oscillations appear in a resonant circuit, appropriate for the discharge, which contains a capacitor having a plate charged by secondary electron emission. The plate can be a metallic or a dielectric one because the negative differential resistance operates at zero dc current to the plate.

On the "mystery" of differential negative resistance by S. Popescu, E. Lozneanu and M.Sanduloviciu (2007, arXiv)

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Investigating the causes of the nonlinear behavior of a gaseous conductor we identified the presence of two states of the complex space charge configuration self-assembled in front of the anode. These states correspond to two levels of self-organization from which the first one is related to spatial pattern whereas the second one to spatiotemporal pattern. Their emergence through two kinds of instabilities produced for two critical distances from thermodynamic equilibrium is emphasized in the current voltage characteristic as an S-shaped, respectively Z-shaped bistability. Their presence attributes to the gaseous conductor the ability to work as an S-shaped, respectively an N-shaped negative differential resistance.

“For example, if someone is even vaguely interested in Andrea Rossi's E-Cat technology which obviously utilizes the negative resistance regime of a plasma discharge”

There is nothing obvious about Rossi’s technology because there is nothing whatsoever known about it. Anything technical in nature said about it is totally made up out of whole cloth. There are no facts available. None. Any claims to the contrary are simply false. So Director’s (and anyone else’s) pontifications about Rossi’s technology are unmitigated bullshit.

Quote from interested observer

So Director’s (and anyone else’s) pontifications about Rossi’s technology are unmitigated bullshit.

Perhaps we should translate this into polite academese, suitable for a physics conference: "The speaker's hypotheses are unfounded speculation and handwaving."

Quote from Director

Sooner or later, the people who don't recognize the obvious reality that's unfolding will be eating five month old decomposing bullsh*t.

True.

Get your fork and knife ready just in case the Unhappy Meal (TM) doesn’t end up the plate you expect.

As the reality of this increases - the amount of funding spent on sewing confusion will increase.

There are people who come into boards like this to stir the pot - to make each side attack each other - and leave the general public in doubt.

I encourage the owners of this forum to have a strategy to deal with this. It may look like geniuine "doubters" but they are paid to hold back progress.

If you owned an oil company wouldn't you hire some lackeys to do this? Of course you would.

Peter Zimmerman and Bob Parks - the academics - are said to have held back BLP for 10 years. Let's not let that happen anymore.