Mizuno reports increased excess heat

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    That M has not experienced meltdown or "saturation" in R20 is a bit surprising and rather goes against the other things he has observed.


    Something that has not yet been mentioned here is that absorption of Deuterium by metal lattices is an exothermic process, while releasing of Deuterium by the Pd/Ni lattices is a endothermic process.
    I don't have numbers on this process available, but this 'breathing' of Deuterium in a kind of semi-equilibrium may work as a dampening effect towards runaways, in particular where high absorption is never reached.

    Quote from Daniel_G

    Jed I don't think such fear is well placed. A self-sustaining reaction would continue to heat the nickel mesh up to its melting point and above 700C


    Yeah? Maybe not. But I sure as hell do not want to risk destroying a Boeing 747 full of passengers over the middle of the Pacific ocean. Even if there is one chance in a million, I don't want to take that risk. Note that mail is sometimes sent in the holds of passenger planes. If anything like that happened, it would be the end of cold fusion forever. Also, Mizuno and everyone else involved would go to prison for the rest of their lives. Why risk it? I see absolutely no benefit to risking it. I cannot think of any reason to do this in the first place. Make a reactor. Get some meshes and D2 gas. Do the experiment. Given how easy this experiment seems to be, mailing a fully loaded and ready reactor is an insane thing to do.


    I hope you realize that 700 deg C in a mail package would trigger a serious fire, at least, if not the complete destruction of the airplane.

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    That M has not experienced meltdown or "saturation" in R20 is a bit surprising and rather goes against the other things he has observed.


    It is not surprising. He is very careful. As I said, he got his degree working with fission reactors, and more recently with samples of radioactive debris from the Fukushima reactor. There are bold people who do that sort of thing, and old people, but no old, bold people. (What pilots say.)

    • Official Post
    Quote from JedRothwell

    I recommend laboratory grade stuff only. The best you can get. It might not work even with that, but it is more likely to work.


    So do I. However that is not the point.


    As for your other thoughts.


    1. AFAIK there is no such thing AFAIK as 'laboratory grade stainless steel'. Somebody might want to sell you that, but that is 99% salesmanship and 1% truth. It all needs cleaning and degassing after it has been made into a reactor and been copated with cutting oil and welded together. Nothing much emerges from a foundry immaculate after all. As for making reactors leaktight, that is just engineering, We have systems that will hold a good vacuum or pressure for weeks at a time with no constant pumping.


    2. You can overcome oil-vapour reflux - which is not a big problem with post-1980's pumps by inserting a filter to absorb stray goodies. We use a combination of alumina fleece, fritted glass, and'molecular seive' (specially treated zeolite beads).


    3. Swagelock needle valves are superb - I bought a box full of new ones on Ebay for around $100. That was lucky. however, on Alibaba you can find clones that are alsmot as good for $10.00 or less. They work well too, perhaps a little less well polished, but they don't leak,

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    Higher COP means more unstable.


    This is not dispassionate analysis

    this is disingenuous assertion.


    Where is the mathematics that justifies this,,, since THHnew is

    a control system expert

    he should be able to produce some calculation or formula

    but here we just get words like "I don't trust"..


    Btw THHnew can you amend or delete the "laminar/turbulence"

    post that contains a number of egregious errors on this thread.

    It may mislead people,

    in the interests of clarity and truth,..

    Quote from Alan Smith

    AFAIK there is no such thing AFAIK as 'laboratory grade stainless steel'.


    Okay, find someone who is used to fabricating laboratory grade equipment, that is clean when delivered, and that does not leak. Mizuno says he trusts the company he buys from to deliver a clean cell. He takes no extra steps to clean it before baking out.


    I doubt that stainless steel truck exhaust pipe meets the standards I describe. I do not think a person should devote weeks or months to this experiment, and risk failing because he uses truck exhaust pipe, or $10 cloned Swagelok valves. That seems like misguided economy measures, risking the whole project to save a relatively small amount of money. I recommend you do everything you can think of to enhance the likelihood of success, even if it costs more money.

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    This complex combination of mechanisms is going to give roughly linear power / casing temperature curve deltaT = K(Pin + Pout


    Show please the ab initio derivation


    Now you are just using

    a posteriori

    the results that Mizuno has got.

    Please show how and what


    "complex combination of mechanisms


    you are assuming give linear power

    Please show also how the velocity affects the heat loss.

    through out the air calorimeter

    It is not only a matter of temperature difference.

    Its fluid mechanics .



    Quote from THHuxleynew

    but given the much higher COP that really does not make any sense


    Please show mathematically the reason why "the much higher COP that really does not make any sense"

    Quote from Daniel_G

    there is a difference between a hot-wire anemometer and a mass flow sensor. These units I am suggesting detect the actual molar mass of molecules


    No they don't .sense molarmass... both are based on a calibration..

    . the sensors detect electrical voltage/current respectively. they are not mass spectrometers.

    Both a socalled mass flow sensor and a fan power reading need calibration.

    An effective method to use is a portable HW anemometer to do a velocity traverse,which is what most people do now.

    Mizuno dis this for his 2017 paper. https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTpreprintob.pdf

    Back in the day, I used a long pitot tube with a manometer...connected by two rubber tubes.

    it was a lengthy process to traverse a metre wide pipe .. usually the pipes were hot.

    I hated laminar flow.. ..it meant more sweat time.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    2. You can overcome oil-vapour reflux - which is not a big problem with post-1980's pumps by inserting a filter to absorb stray goodies. We use a combination of alumina fleece, fritted glass, and'molecular seive' (specially treated zeolite beads).

    I think that turbopumps both have less reverse gas getting into the system and of course much higher vacuum -- I think realizing 0.02 Pa is not a problem with the turbo pump vs the rougher will only do something like 100x that. You get what you pay for there.

    JedRothwell,


    you seem to avoid answering my questions ?

    Maybe you are more inspired by sterile mathematical considerations, or you prefer to hide some points/secrets ?

    However it should be more probably in relation with your daily time not fully available currently :)


    So again:

    is Pd sputtering way offering greater excesses or just too much expensive than manual one ?


    Next:

    Could you give heating system exact reference ?


    Last one, i understood that yourself, Dr Mizuno and Dewey Weaver are contractually close !?

    Are things moving as you have permission to share these results ?


    Quote from JedRothwell

    Okay, find someone who is used to fabricating laboratory grade equipment, that is clean when delivered, and that does not leak. Mizuno says he trusts the company he buys from to deliver a clean cell. He takes no extra steps to clean it before baking out.


    I doubt that stainless steel truck exhaust pipe meets the standards I describe. I do not think a person should devote weeks or months to this experiment, and risk failing because he uses truck exhaust pipe, or $10 cloned Swagelok valves. That seems like misguided economy measures, risking the whole project to save a relatively small amount of money. I recommend you do everything you can think of to enhance the likelihood of success, even if it costs more money.

    • Official Post
    Quote from JedRothwell

    I recommend you do everything you can think of to enhance the likelihood of success, even if it costs more money.


    I have no comment to make about that, except to say that is a very worthy aim, and one we spend around $1500 a week trying to achieve, But you conflate success and spending money more closely than i am comfortable with, at other times you recognise the importance of skill. What I am saying is that sometimes craft skills can make up for lack of money, not every time for sure, but they can.


    ETA - Speaking of skill and money, sometimes $11.5M can't buy you a good experiment.

    I recall someone here asked about H2 experiments. The ICCF21 paper describes some of them. I do not think Mizuno has repeated them lately. All of the recent data I have is with D2. I do not know why. I suppose he found D2 works better. He does things because they work. He learns from the data. That's what experimentalists are supposed to do. He is particularly good at it.


    He is not trying one thing after another in a random "Edisonian" search. I put "Edisonian" in quotes because in my opinion Edison did not do that as much as people think. Or as much as he claimed he did. Granted, Tesla said that Edison wasted a lot of time on futile searches because he did not understand the fundamentals. He said:


    "If he [Thomas Edison] had a needle to find in a haystack, he would not stop to reason where it was most likely to be, but would proceed at once with the feverish diligence of a bee, to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search. … Just a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety percent of his labor."


    (Incidentally, the way to find a needle in a haystack is to burn the hay and run the ashes past a magnet, I think.)



    I think someone here asked what happens at high pressure. I gather it stops working. We discussed this. He said: "Just keep it below 5,000 Pa. That's my recommendation." He doesn't have time to explain everything, and I wouldn't understand in any case. While writing this paper, I ruthlessly cut out everything that did not fit the goal of the Abstract, which is to "allow others to replicate." Readers prefer tightly written papers that focus on communicating one message. I figure we can always write another paper. I described my work elsewhere:


    "Mizuno had many interesting things to say about flux and the interface in the Japanese manuscript. Interesting things that I gutted and reduced to a single cryptic sentence, referencing McKubre, on p. 10. This is what happens when you let a technical writer write a scientific paper. It comes out sounding more like a dishwasher operating manual than a scientific treatise."


    I believe THH got the impression I wrote it this way by accident, or because I am not capable of writing like a scientist. Nope.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    What I am saying is that sometimes craft skills can make up for lack of money, not every time for sure, but they can.


    But why risk it? Why leave anything to chance? Unless you have no money, of course.


    Someone here asked why Mizuno works in a dilapidated lab. As I said, that is like asking why poor people sleep under bridges.



    "In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread." - Anatole France

    Quote from Cydonia

    Maybe you are more inspired by sterile mathematical considerations


    Cyclonia.. its not Jed.. he has a hundred or so Lenrcanr papers floating around in his mind\

    There are also 3 complex relevant Mixuno papers

    and Mizuno.. as usual is 24/7.. grinding away at this complex research


    It is another forum resident , anonymous, who is introducing mathematic considerations

    they are not just sterile... not germane... they are disingenuous pseudo mathematical.

    Quote from Cydonia

    Could you give heating system exact reference


    Yes the heater is a problem is it off the shelf or is it a handmade skilled in the art one

    both were used in 2017 I think

    I don't know if Figure 5 is relevant to 2019

    but I don't know which is the heater

    https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTpreprintob.pdf

    Quote from Cydonia

    you focused currently on metallurgic things to explain Mizuno's Results..

    if you missed something important, even Jed, that would be something else ?

    If the replications prove to be negative, the future debates will be very lively.

    Good luck for next steps :)

    I am not attempting a replication or explain anything. I saw someone was having trouble (on ECW) finding the mesh. So I Googled ‘fine pure nickel mesh‘, and found a lot of suppliers. Maybe the screens are used for catalytic heaters... I dunno. Just thought it was neat.

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