MIZUNO REPLICATION AND MATERIALS ONLY

Quote from Paradigmnoia

Two outlet thermocouples, two inlet thermocouples, of which all four are from a matched set of five thermocouples, all of which agree when the tips are all in the same spot. A third outlet temperature sensor is built into the Bosch BME280 atmospheric pressure/temperature/humidity sensor. Two other stand alone RTD sensors with digital displays plus a mechanical thermometer monitoring the air temperature around the calorimeter (but these are not recorded).

The “extra temperature” is there when no heat source is active in the box.
In other words everything is at room temperature.

Easy enough to fiddle with anyways, since the two inlet and two outlet thermocouples are connected to a dedicated thermocouple datalogger with a live digital display for all 4 channels, (and then that digital TC data goes to the main datalogger along with recorded voltages, currents, BME280 data, etc.

I'm writing this without knowing exactly how you set up the measurement (its faster for me just to throw out ideas) - but here are ideas for the "extra temperature"

1. radiation cooling of inlet air (because it is near a window or a cold room) and/or radiation heating of outlet air (closer to a hot room or furnace).

2. does fan power explain it? I think you said it doesn't.

3. does the "extra temperature" only show up when fan isn't running? if so, data without fan running should not count because fan reduces thermal gradients

4. make sure you are happy with the amount of thermocouple area exposed to the air flow because it should be as much as reasonably possible.

5. if it persists, then you can zero it out and hopefully it is small and doesn't interfere with the excess heat measurement

Quote from Shane D.

https://mizunotech.com/index.html

What do you think of the new website?

The claim that Mizuno's work has been independently replicated is exaggerated according to publicly released results. To claim successful replication, I would want to see results described in at least as much detail as in the original reports by Rothwell and Mizuno. I haven't seen that. The only carefully described set of studies I have seen are MagicSound's and those so far are negative. Maybe I am wrong. Does anyone know of carefully described positive results?

Unpublished or poorly described results are just rumours and should be ignored. I think that the the claim of replication on the Mizuno Technology website is so far just PR glitz. Mizuno himself should be careful because such claims are the trademark of fakers and the deluded and he doesn't want a company bearing his name to be cast n that light..

Quote from Wyttenbach

Nice picture of the sheet (cheat) heater...

"Cheat"?

Quote from Paradigmnoia

I figured the outlet fan would have blown any stratified air out of the box pretty quick.

I am running a 100 W input test to try and see if the apparent extra bit of heat is additive, like a positive offset on the DT, or if it is just there when there is no real source of heat.

If it is additive, perhaps your polyiso board (with adjoining polystyrene board?) box is absorbing acoustic energy in your room and turning it into interior heat. But then, you would have to have your stereo system really cranked for 20 hours to get the 10 watts or so you are getting! So, scratch that.

If it is not additive, perhaps the interior board (especially if is unfoiled polystyrene, which is more absorbent than the polyiso) was previously really dry and was absorbing moisture from the interior air during the 20 hours. Removing moisture from the air would raise the temperature a little bit. (By how much and for how long I have no idea. I wouldn't think it would amount to about 10 watts of heat though, but...)

Introducing the interior 100W heater would again dry out the board, raising the interior humidity, and slightly lowering the temperature from expected.

If the above rambling is partly correct, the removal of the interior acrylic box would have been a key feature in this effect showing itself.

Quote from Shane D.

If they have what they claim....

"Output power is exponentially related to operating temperature. Even rudimentary small devices can output 10-15kW of thermal energy which can be converted to steam or to spin super-critical CO2 turbines for producing combined heat and power (CHP) for homes and factories."

none of what you say will matter. Potential investors can contact them via our own Daniel_G , or use the contact email provided on the website. Arrangements can then be made to go through the due diligence process, and they can judge for themselves.

"If they have...". I don't understand the utility of this type of argument for discussions on this thread. We should be talking about the evidence for the "if", not starting with the "if" as a given.

Coincidentally, I had just been thinking about the claims of the exponential dependence of excess power on temperature. The Mizuno Technologies website previously showed evidence that the reaction rate rises exponentially with temperature from 20C to about 700C. This broadly agrees with Rothwell and Mizuno. But if such is the cases then my first response is that the reactor should be very very tough to hold at any of these temperatures (core temperatures should shoot upwards to near some maximal reaction rate) . But I have never seen the slightest hint that this is so. It is a big puzzle to me. I've mentioned it before and everyone here just seems to be incurious. That's a shame.

Lots of groupthink here

MR4.1 update: TC2 temp is about 2°C above calibration but that is roughly the same as ambient temp rise. Pressure is still slowly dropping, suggesting that D2 loading continues. If recent hints are correct, XH should appear when temp increases. Later today expect 100w/200°C to test this.

The live stream is now at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJPzdIjXgB0

After lots of poking around, overall results are that the fan makes 0.5 C DT, and the calorimeter box makes 0.2 C DT. I don’t have the resolution, but it is actually probably 0.45 C DT due to the fan, and 0.25 C DT from the calorimeter box for whatever reason.

Also, 1 hr steady state with 100 W lamp was DT of 7.4 C

and 200 W input is DT 15.3 C

Probably should do a few more to confirm the numbers before theorizing.

Will leave the fan intake thermocouple in place for a while.

MR4.1 update: Heater power was increased to 100 watts at 14:00. An RGA gas sample taken 14:05-14:15 suggests that much of the D₂ pressure drop resulted from reduction of surface oxides on the Ni mesh. This is shown by the strong mass=18, the signal for D₂O ionized to OD+ in the detector. The smaller amounts at 17 and 19 are possibly from desorbed H involved in the reduction process. There's also a strong signal at mass=44 which is unexpected. That could be from CaCO₃ residues known to be present from the soak process, releasing CO₂ from reaction with the Hydrogen isotopes, and possibly catalyzed by the Ni+Pd mesh.

The live stream continues at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJPzdIjXgB0

MR4.1 update: After 20 hours at 100 watts, pressure continued to increase, though at a slower rate. RGA sampling showed that all free D₂ had gone into reduction of oxides and carbonate, leaving predominantly CO₂ (mass 44) and D₂O (detected as OD+, mass 18). Traces of N₂ (mass 28) and O (mass 16) also appeared.

One consequence of this process is shown by the core temperature remaining 10°C cooler than the cell body, due to the lower thermal conductivity of the product gases. In prior calibrations with 300 Pa of D₂ but without meshes, those temperatures stayed typically within 1°C at equilibrium

The cell will now be pumped out while still hot, then allowed to cool before adding fresh D₂ for MR4.2.

Quote from Shane D.

What do you think of the new website?

Real pictures rather than a stock picture (MIT ?) of happy lab engineers!
Of course it's a place-holder ....

The cell was pumped out overnight at 190°C and after cooling reached 1.5E-6 Torr. The next run, MR4.2 has now started with the same protocol as 4.1 being used.

The live stream is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlHSU69m-6M

My question is: Why do you fill the cell up to 300 Bar? This should be the final pressure at the working point around 300C.

That's 300 Pascals (.003 bar), as specified in Jed and Mizuno's instructions.

I know but 300 Pascal should be reached at 300C not at 20C!

Quote from Alan Smith

Есть такие вещи, как «тепловые ловушки». Например, комнаты со сводчатыми потолками. Там теплый воздух имеет тенденцию скапливаться в неподвижных верхних пространствах, не нарушая воздушных потоков. Просто явление конвекции. Также известен как положительный градиент термальной гравитации. В калориметрии это иногда называют «эффектом плавучести», когда теплый воздух «плавает» поверх более холодного.

Но я не знаю, что вы видите.

What should be noted commenting on your statement - THIS is very important for understanding physics in general - "where warm air 'floats' on top of cooler air." Here the following should be noted - "hot molecules" are heavier than "cold molecules" ... Why? And because in hot molecules, electrons gained additional mass - they absorbed photons, and became heavier than electrons, which are in "cold molecules" ... The question arises - "If they are heavier, then why are they on top of cold molecules?" The answer is simple - since in hot molecules the electrons move linearly from their protons, then the molecules expand and their density becomes less than the density of the "cold molecules" - the Archimedes law operates and denser molecules displace less dense molecules - "hot molecules", therefore cold molecules at the bottom, and hot at the top ... The fact that hot molecules are more "massive" or "heavier" than cold molecules was shown to us by Joseph Rank - that's what Vladimir Stepanovich Afanasyev wrote about this, who used this effect to separate steam from salts - ". .. Joseph Rank investigated the properties of a vortex, artificially created in a vortex tube. He noticed that, leaving this tube, the air flow was divided into warm and cold jets. Further research on this phenomenon in Germany was continued by scientist Robert Hilsch. He improved the design of the vortex tube. and thereby achieved an increase in the temperature difference of the air streams.But since they could not substantiate such a phenomenon, then this effect could not find practical application for a long time. " Look at the diagram of the hydro-wave installation - in generator No. 6 steam with a temperature of 80 degrees schematically leaves to the left and a saline solution with a temperature of 10 degrees to the right ...