Yes we are moving ahead so let’s see how nextgen devices perform in the real world. Making practical amounts of heat at usable temps will be a game changer (we hope)
MIZUNO REPLICATION AND MATERIALS ONLY
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operational temperature of 2000°C where the system likes to sit
Pretty high temperature....what type of material are you using here. Thanks for clue.
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Pretty high temperature....what type of material are you using here. Thanks for clue.
This is from a mathematical model. The parameters of the model are set from experimental observations by Mizuno and Daniel_G. For those parameter values, it looks as though the system would like to operate at temperatures that would melt the components of current real systems. That is a challenge for actually engineering anything like this.
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Bursty behaviour is also seen in long-lived systems. They are intermittent in nature - which Mizuno's systems may also be,
I of course agree but I would just comment that if we can’t detect the graininess in practical devices then at least for commercialization purposes it’s not so relevant
This may be true for all cold fusion devices. The best evidence for that is the video made by Pam Boss (https://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=952). People have also seen evidence of localized damage on cathodes, indicating intense heat in one place and not in the surrounding area.
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This is from a mathematical model. The parameters of the model are set from experimental observations by Mizuno and Daniel_G. For those parameter values, it looks as though the system would like to operate at temperatures that would melt the components of current real systems. That is a challenge for actually engineering anything like this.
It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia, also Tadahiko Mizuno-MTI)
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It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia, also Tadahiko Mizuno-MTI)
It is just fine to use the sort of simple model I have made as an aid to understanding your results.
Once again, I have made few assumptions. I have assumed that the rate of LENR heat generation increases as temperature increases. This, after all, is what you yourself assume. Isn't it? And I have used Mizuno's empirically observed Arrheneius activation energy to characterize how the temperature dependence works. Finally, I treat your reactor as a lumped heat capacitance with Newtonian cooling. That is it.
It is highly simplistic. Intentionally so. And yet its qualitative behaviour agrees with some of the data you have posted on this thread. But it also shows some behaviours you have not so far seen. I think the model is saying that your own assumptions imply consequences you have not yet thought through.
Science is conjecture and refutation. The model I have proposed is part of this.
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, I have made few assumptions.
the Brucian sigmoid with a sharp inflexion at 250C seems to have disappeared from conversation after tweaking the assumptions,,
'few assumptions' can make a big difference to "theoretical results"
and very easily
in contrast to experimental results which cannot be tweaked
very easily..
from Bruce's zip file March 1,2022
"Temperature-dependent LENR.zip"
RE: MIZUNO REPLICATION AND MATERIALS ONLY
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I still prefer to work with actual data but we are in different places so no worries
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I still prefer to work with actual data
Good! I used Mizuno's published data, and some of the data you posted here, to set the parameter values describing the dependence of heat generation on temperature.
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That data is already quite old so not much meaning for us to model something we’ve already moved beyond. But anyway appreciate your work.
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That data is already quite old so not much meaning for us to model something we’ve already moved beyond. But anyway appreciate your work.
Does this mean that you think that the heat generation does not depend on temperature? Or that the dependence is qualitatively different from the Arrhenius-type of activation that Mizuno was assuming in the past?
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the Arrhenius-type of activation
Is the former Brucian sigmoid.. Arrhenius type?
or just colonic?
the "arrhenius-type" covers a huge.. exponential.. range of temperature dependencies
according to one's assumptions..
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Is this a Sigmoid Feud?
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Or that the dependence is qualitatively different from the Arrhenius-type of activation that Mizuno was assuming in the past
At least it’s different than your sigmoid model.
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At least it’s different than your sigmoid model.
I used an Arrhenius function to describe LENR activation because that is what Mizuno used. You have described the dependence of heat generation on temperature as exponential. At the temperatures you have shown results for so far that is very close to the function I have used. So, many of the phenomena I mentioned would remain including inflections in the heating curve and runaway to a high-heat state.
I notice that more and more you are relying on vagaries and secrecy. That is a shame. Perhaps you just need time. I look forward to your white paper.
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Well we are a commercial company so there are limits to what we can disclose. I do try to be as transparent as possible. ICCF24 requires that papers submitted have not been published elsewhere, so we will have to see if our paper is accepted to their peer review first.
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Well we are a commercial company so there are limits to what we can disclose. I do try to be as transparent as possible.
I asked ...
"Does this mean that you think that the heat generation does not depend on temperature? Or that the dependence is qualitatively different from the Arrhenius-type of activation that Mizuno was assuming in the past?"
You replied ...
"At least it’s different than your sigmoid model".
That is a sort of non-answer. It is vague. Are you saying that it is purposely vague because of commercial secrecy?
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I used an Arrhenius function to describe LENR activation because that is what Mizuno used.
But what exactly were the assumptions that Bruce used...?
what was the preexponential factor and what was the exponential activation energy?
the sigmoid curve that Bruce got first by 'vague' theory and what Mizuno got for a particular experimental series of results
are wildly different
"an Arrhenius function" covers a huge range of possibilities
the devil is in the details..
"an Arrhenius function"? " It is vague" as Bruce writes... indeed very vague
whether or not an EMPIRICAL Arrhenius function
is a useful concept to describe all or some of LENR processes
over a wide range of temperatures and LENR mixes
depends on experimental results..
since Arrhenius constants are most often deduced a posteriori by curve fitting..
there are some suggestions that magnetic processes are involved in LENR
In one set of experiments with rare earth magnetic interaction "an Arrhenius function"
appears to have limited utility... over a narrow range of temperatures..
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I asked ...
"Does this mean that you think that the heat generation does not depend on temperature? Or that the dependence is qualitatively different from the Arrhenius-type of activation that Mizuno was assuming in the past?"
You replied ...
"At least it’s different than your sigmoid model".
That is a sort of non-answer. It is vague. Are you saying that it is purposely vague because of commercial secrecy?
Bruce I explained that iccf24 requirements are that the data has not been published previously so you will have to wait and read the peer reviewed paper when it is published
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The Arrhenius plots are linear, as one would expect, if LEN reactions begin at absolute zero.
