MIZUNO REPLICATION AND MATERIALS ONLY

  • The initial D2 pressure was 1008 Pa, and that dropped to 940 Pa over about an hour. That could have been reduction of oxides, but no trace of D2O was found in the cell after the run. So I think that was rapid loading of the micron-scale deposits of Pd. If that is true, the loading ratio could be estimated from 10 mg of Pd and the cell volume of 310 cc.


    I'm pumping out the cell now, and will add gas at higher pressure tomorrow. H2 would be easier if the purpose is just to create stress.

  • The same has been presented in Assisi, last year, by an Italian researcher. Hydrogen causes cavities in Nickel, but follow up Deuterium will block them. This indicates that you do have to enhance this step e.g. by removing Deuterium again and going back to Hydrogen once more to make the cavities even larger. But this is the Nickel centered approach.

    Based on this I would do the H/D steps a few times before the Pd deposition on the Ni mesh! It is important that the cavities stay below the Pd deposit!


    That might have been Ubaldo Mastromatteo's presentation (see attached abstract). I recall reading other users relating his results to Mizuno's.

    (EDIT: see U. Mastromatteo: Another Mizuno R20 replication?)


    From the previously posted paper and comments he also made in this thread and elsewhere in the past, Storms does not seem to think that the substrate on its own would form suitable cracks/gaps/cavities. These would mostly occur at the interface between the substrate and the burnished/deposited metal once suitable conditions arise (e.g. loading-deloading cycles). However a [possibly disordered] oxide layer on the substrate before the deposition step would apparently make such gaps more likely to form.


    The initial D2 pressure was 1008 Pa, and that dropped to 940 Pa over about an hour. That could have been reduction of oxides, but no trace of D2O was found in the cell after the run. So I think that was rapid loading of the micron-scale deposits of Pd. If that is true, the loading ratio could be estimated from 10 mg of Pd and the cell volume of 310 cc.


    I'm pumping out the cell now, and will add gas at higher pressure tomorrow. H2 would be easier if the purpose is just to create stress.


    Following Storms, in principle H should also work, but there's a chance that it could form gaps too small for D similarly to what Wyttenbach cited above. I think this would mostly depend on whether there's a difference in volume between PdH and PdD (I don't know).


    On a related note, although it hasn't been reported officially, some time back Mizuno said that excess heat could be observed also with natural/ordinary H: https://e-catworld.com/2019/08…no-responds-to-questions/


    Quote

    [...]7) How well do you think the R20 and/or HIKOBOSHI reactors would work utilizing ordinary hydrogen rather than deuterium?


    7: Since 100% hydrogen gas is not commercially available, the effect of deuterium cannot be excluded. However, excess heat was confirmed even with ordinary H2.

  • Cydonia

    I'm not sure if I correctly understand what you mean, but to clarify: I previously made a test proposal along some of Storms' indications (which do not seem to differ significantly from what Mizuno also does—perhaps inadvertently—at least once with every mesh) because no excess heat has been observed and because magicsound previously suggested that further tests (i.e. tests beyond what Mizuno usually does) should be possible with the current setup.

  • can

    I didn't go to ICCF only for air stirring as most people.

    My goals were: meet Matt Trevitick, Slobodan Stankovic and Masttromatteo also meet first time a guy who likes sea food.

    We sat on table with Uberto, also members of LF joined, maybe also Wyttenbach .

    magicsound could have joined too, he would have learned things.

    To answer also, to one of your questions, gases penetrate inside cracks by a zigzag path, by bond, also, it's necessary to take into account the deuterium different behavior essentially because its higher inertia than H.

  • There are quite a few researchers who believe that once hydrogen gets deep into the lattice it can be very difficult to remove even by baking out. This means that once a test piece has been hydrogen loaded the most active sites within it become much less available to deuterium. This is mostly anecdotal evidence gained from face-to-face talks, but I haven't searched the literature seriously for confirmation.


    Seafood? ;)

  • Alan Smith you wrote: but I haven't searched the literature seriously for confirmation.


    I know the seriousness of your commitment as well as your friendship but what you said horrifies me ..||

    Sometimes you can see real "strange" things, for example by experiments but you doubt this true reality as 99,999999 % Lenr people because too far from well established truth :?:

    Also, to reassure you, you go back to well-established Bibles :saint:

    Wyttenbach help me :)

  • Alan Smith

    Whether this will have a substantial effect might depend on the material and techniques used. PdH changes in volume by about 10% upon transitioning from the alpha to the beta phase (see excerpt and attached paper from a quick web search); this would cause large changes/stresses that might be relatively unaffected by isotopic differences. If one is trying to work with much smaller differences and precisely sized vacancies or gaps in the tested material, more at a lattice level, it's conceivable that a sort of "poisoning effect" could occur on the other hand.



    Storms has suggested in a past comment that H would produce less excess heat than D, but I think that was in the context of less energetic nuclear reactions than with D rather than the effects on the material, at least in the case of Mizuno-type burnished substrates.

  • Cydonia

    What I am saying—and what Storms is also saying—is that the volume changes caused by forming and decomposing PdH from the Pd on the Ni mesh will (could) form active gaps at the interface between both metals (Pd and Ni). After the gaps form, excess heat would then be a function of the diffusion rate of H (or D) through those gaps. Palladium hydride here is just a tool to obtain those gaps. I'm not referring to excess heat claims using Pd alone.


    Pd could be replaced by other metals which can form hydrides that change appreciably in volume upon formation/decomposition, at least according to this (Storms') hypothesis.

  • I still think the secret to making the R20 work was some fortuous pre-synthesis of ultra dense deuterium just before excess heat measurements were made. As far as I know nobody has tested this by using Holmlid's method for creating UDD then subsequently injecting it into the reactor chamber. His protocol is to supply H or D gas via a closed ended metal tube containing KFeO2 and more sophisticated derivatives are published in Norront Fusion's patents for generating muons. So if all else fails maybe an effort to pre-synthesise UDD then inject it into the R20 in two separate stages. Worth a try?:)

  • can

    i like very well Fralick's NASA experiment where he unloads D from Pd lattice in gas with XH.

    I like this because only essential stays here.

    My understanding could be D+ reach then mix with D mono ( first recombined from D+) outside lattice so something as bosons coupling should be considered here, that's all !


    Cydonia

    What I am saying—and what Storms is also saying—is that the volume changes caused by forming and decomposing PdH from the Pd on the Ni mesh will (could) form active gaps at the interface between both metals (Pd and Ni). After the gaps form, excess heat would then be a function of the diffusion rate of H (or D) through those gaps. Palladium hydride here is just a tool to obtain those gaps. I'm not referring to excess heat claims using Pd alone.


    Pd could be replaced by other metals which can form hydrides that change appreciably in volume upon formation/decomposition, at least according to this (Storms') hypothesis.

  • Dr Richard

    Don't you think that currently if you have a "Doctor" expertise like you, you should help at hospital rather than spreading all your science on subjects like R20 or Rossi here for example ?

    I still think the secret to making the R20 work was some fortuous pre-synthesis of ultra dense deuterium just before excess heat measurements were made. As far as I know nobody has tested this by using Holmlid's method for creating UDD then subsequently injecting it into the reactor chamber. His protocol is to supply H or D gas via a closed ended metal tube containing KFeO2 and more sophisticated derivatives are published in Norront Fusion's patents for generating muons. So if all else fails maybe an effort to pre-synthesise UDD then inject it into the R20 in two separate stages. Worth a try?:)

  • Dr Richard

    Putting aside the technicalities related to those catalysts that a would-be experimenter would have to learn about, the main issue is that it would be a substantially different experiment whereas loading the mesh material with D/H at a higher pressure and then unloading it so that PdD(/H) forms and decomposes only requires a small change to the Mizuno protocol (or actually no change if one followed it to the letter including the recommendation he made in the preprint paper, which I previously quoted).


    Cydonia

    Using Pd only might be more elegant, but the appeal of Mizuno's method with Pd burnished on Ni was that it apparently solved reproducibility and scalability issues that have always plagued pure Pd-D experiments.


    I would also like to point out that at the hydrogen pressures (and temperatures used) recommended by Mizuno for excess heat generation very little palladium hydride would form, according to standard pressure-composition isotherms.


    https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTincreasede.pdf


    Quote

    [...] Optimum pressure is between 100 and 300 Pa. It should not exceed 6,000 Pa. The reactant will probably not load at less than 100 Pa. However, as shown in Table 1, once it has loaded, pressure can be pumped down as low as 2.3 Pa and the reaction continues.


  • Cydonia - sure I would help in hospitals if I could - but I only have a PhD not MD. My brother has been called up out of retirement though. I have contacted Bayer for a delivery of Hydroxchloroquine which will probably do more good than anything else. And like the rest of you LENR buffs I'll say whatever I like.

  • @ can

    i think about R20 the only technical thing interesting is Pd lattice distorted onto NI mesh.

    That means Pd by handling became , rather reached a plastic distortion.

    If you stretch a metal, when you reach plastic limit you could not come back at starting point, it will stay elongated.

    That means lattice become deformed full time as well as electronic behavior "will change"both with cavities creation.

    It should exist more efficient ways to do that than R20 process.

  • Cydonia

    There's also the fact that you have a metal that expands considerably upon absorbing hydrogen and forming a hydride (Pd) getting basically cold welded to one that does not expand significantly and does not form a hydride under ordinary conditions (Ni). In random pure Pd samples (for example as used in many "traditional" cold fusion experiments) this volumetric expansion upon hydrogen uptake is considered harmful because it relieves internal stresses—much work has been put by some LENR researchers to find Pd samples that do not change volume upon absorbing hydrogen—but in the case of burnished meshes, where you have two dissimilar metals bonded together, it might actually be a good thing.


    I do not have a reference at the moment, but Zr or Ti—possible replacements for Pd, again according to the same proposed process by Storms—expand by about 14–18% upon forming a hydride: more than Pd.