校正データーです。Control data.
In other words, a calibration.
MIZUNO REPLICATION AND MATERIALS ONLY
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Great stuff.
Are there control data for 1100 W input that confirms the calculated heat loss correction for the excess heat in the 750 W input test? -
Machined this 15 cms reactor flange yesterday to take a 26MM diameter ceramic 'gamma window'. The bevel on the inside face is to allow more indirect particles to 'see the light' too.
Outside face
Inside face
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Взаимодействие с другими людьмиВзаимодействие с другими людьми
Display More図 面 は 同 じ 試 験 炉 で 、 熱 補正 前 と 補正 後 で す。
Переводчик Google
«На чертеже тот же реактор, с поправкой на тепловые потери и после исправления».
Представляю вам свою статью ... Она вам поможет? Не знаю ... Но я точно знаю - это заставляет нас многое переосмыслить в физике -
Переписка с Игорем Николаевичем Степановым от 22 июня 2020 г. - https://cloud.mail.ru/public/1mSx/2ti91GWkP
Переписка с Игорем Николаевичем Степановым от 22 июня 2020 г. - https://drive.google.com/file/…5ADwlehP/view?usp=sharing
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That appears to be saying when 700W is input the calorimeter eventually measures 600W output under control conditions. Suggesting a 100W correction is required. Yet on the active runs with 750W input it looks like a larger correction was applied, over 300W ? I guess we are still missing something.
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私はこれ以上の入力データを持っていません。
[Google translate 'I don't have multiple input data' Alan.]
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Something I look for in systems where temperature-dependent excess heat generation is claimed, is one or more inflection points in the heating curve. These appear because, as the temperature climbs into the range that the LENR reaction is claimed to operate, the extra heat evolved should locally raise the temperature of the mesh which should then creates even more excess heat. This is a positive feedback cycle which will suddenly kick up the temperature. An upward inflection should also be seen in the output power as well.
I don't see such an inflection in these data. There are lots of jiggles in the output power trace but they are sudden downward transients followed by a recovery. I think they are oscillatory artefacts of a heated-air system ... like the guttering of a candle.
I have looked for inflection points before in Mizuno's data and never seen a clear indication that such events characterize his system. In the early data there were occasional large inflections and transients, but such things are also seen in the controls. Over the past several years, however, as Mizuno has been perfecting his calorimetric apparatus, he has achieved more and more control over his system and such transients have disappeared in both the controls and the active runs. It now becomes clear that the upward inflections in the heating curve that I take to be indicators of the presence of temperature-dependent excess heat evolution are missing.
There should also be downward inflections in the cooling phase of temperature or power time courses. This would be due to the positive feedback mechanism breaking apart as temperatures decline into a range where the LENR mechanism is not so active. It would be interesting to see cooling curves from Mizuno's system.
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私はこれ以上の入力データを持っていません。
[Google translate 'I don't have multiple input data' Alan.]I think it means "I do not have [calibration] data for higher input power than this."
When I Google translated this, it came out "I don't have any more input data," but he has lots more data, so that's probably not what it means.
There is slight ambiguity because of the word "ijou" (以上) means "greater than or equal to" or "all there is" ("end of message," "period," "full set"). Come to think of it, the two meanings are somewhat opposite. I never noticed that. It depends on whether ijou modifies "input" or "input data."
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I have looked for inflection points before in Mizuno's data and never seen a clear indication that such events characterize his system.
I have also looked for that, and not seen it. It worries me, as I have said before.
In the early data there were occasional large inflections and transients, but such things are also seen in the controls.
I don't recall seeing that in the controls.
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I have also looked for that, and not seen it. It worries me, as I have said before.
I don't recall seeing that in the controls.
I am thinking particularly of this figure. There are upward inflections in all the control traces
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I am thinking particularly of this figure. There are upward inflections in all the control traces
Huh. So there are.
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Soon after Rothwell and Mizuno posted descriptions of a system said to generate excess heat, a number of individuals and groups began independent replications. This thread, begun just under a year and a half ago, has recorded some of the replication efforts. The best described of the Mizuno analogue constructed by magicsound. His periodically updated reports, beginning in February 2020, are available here MFMP - Mizuno Analogue .
Over time, Magicsound has tracked down and corrected a number of hardware and procedural problems in his syste,m, gradually understanding its capabilities and limitations. He has not, however, seen anything convincing in the way of excess heat or radiation.
My questions now are the following ... where do these so-far negative results fit into the overall picture? Do we say now that this is a case where replication has failed? Or, if more time and effort is needed before regarding this as evidence against Rothwell and Mizuno? How much more time and effort is needed?
Supposedly other groups have seen excess heat in their replications. But it is my understanding that these reports are little better than rumours with almost no detail. Maybe I am wrong. Perhaps someone can point me to something concrete. It should disturb everyone if it is true that the most carefully and openly described replication (Magicsound's) is so far negative and that the supposedly successful ones are left as vague claims.
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I am not disturbed at all, since mizunotadahiko is taking his work to a commercial stage, It’s expected things go rather silent. It is indeed disappointing for those who are left outside, but not disturbing.
I hope we eventually are given more information, and I also hope some of the analog experiments give positive results, but true replications haven’t been performed AFAIK. -
I am not disturbed at all, since mizunotadahiko is taking his work to a commercial stage, It’s expected things go rather silent. It is indeed disappointing for those who are left outside, but not disturbing.
Why should Mizuno taking his work to a commercial stage cause others to go silent?
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Supposedly other groups have seen excess heat in their replications. But it is my understanding that these reports are little better than rumours with almost no detail. Maybe I am wrong. Perhaps someone can point me to something concrete. It should disturb everyone if it is true that the most carefully and openly described replication (Magicsound's) is so far negative and that the supposedly successful ones are left as vague claims.
The Hokkaido replication circa Dec 2019 stuff looked pretty good. The power vs time plot just recently brought to us by mizunotadahiko is very similar in style.*
*Maybe it’s just vanilla Excel style 🤔
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The Hokkaido replication circa Dec 2019 stuff looked pretty good.
Do you have in mind a particular report from the Hokkaido group? Jed Rothwell put up some isolated graphical results on this thread in the Spring, then linked to the following paper "Development of hydrogen energy heater using nano catalyst" which, however, is not very complete. They claimed COP ~ 1.4
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I don't know what Magicsound intends to do next, but if he continues to have negative results does that make his work unimportant? From what I can see, that seems to be how people intend to treat it.
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In the course of my Mizuno replication work, I found that the cell (304 alloy) continued to out-gas after many days of bake-out at 250°C and ~1E-5 Torr vacuum. In the most recent test, after the bake-out, 300 Pa of D2 was added at ambient temp. The cell content was monitored with a mass spec and as the temperature rose above 250°C, a substantial mass=3 signal gradually appeared, at a rate increasing with temperature. No evidence of O or N was seen. This suggests that the out-gassing is mono-atomic H, which then forms HD (mass=3).
The pressure did not stabilize with temperature but rose linearly above the equilibrium predicted by the standard gas law. My conclusion from this is that hydrogen is trapped in the stainless steel grain boundaries during manufacturing and is released when heating and expansion opens the metallic structure.
The chart below from an excellent book on vacuum systems confirms that what I'm seeing is expected behavior. My concern is whether it may have a functional role in the Mizuno R20-type reactors. If the range of isotopic ratio required for activation of the NAE is narrow (high q) , replication becomes more difficult.
This document suggests that substantial reduction in out-gassing can be achieved by extended baking at 400 C, which can be reached with the Mizuno-type external heater, without insulation: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5226402/
However, such pretreatment of the cell is not mentioned in the Mizuno R20 recipe as posted by Jed, nor in the various documents published by Mizuno. If those descriptions are accurate, the presence of a substantial H fraction in the Mizuno cells must be assumed. So my question is what role the isotopic ratio plays in the success (COP>1) or failure of such cells. This issue is important enough that I have suspended testing until it can be resolved sufficiently to guide the experimental procedure.
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In the course of my Mizuno replication work, I found that the cell (304 alloy) continued to out-gas after many days of bake-out at 250°C and ~1E-5 Torr vacuum.
Other Japanesse dd tell that they sometimes do outgas for weeks. May be you should use an other type of steel. I hope Alan Smith can tell more about his experience with the steel Gerold did use!
