As far as I know there was nothing said about incubator until last year.
A link to a post from February 2021, discussing the oven (referred to as and "incubator") used in experiments carried out in late 2020 and throughout 2021.
MIZUNO REPLICATION AND MATERIALS ONLY
-
-
And here is a picture Daniel_G posted, also in February 2021*, of reactors inside the incubator. Note the large heating coil sitting between the reactors and the fan situated at the top of the oven cavity to promote even heat distribution.
*Note added in edit: Sorry, my error. The picture is taken from a post dated February 2022. But to my knowledge the oven used is still the same one as described a year earlier as an "incubator" in February 2021.
-
Sorry, my error. The picture is taken from a post dated February 2022
also in February 2021*
Me356 said 'last year'..time flies
Bruce old chap... a bit picky on the month..
You need to think in nuclear R & D time
as at ITER or Livermore
where months become years
and years become decades
and decades become
half centuries.
ITER.... 1985... 2050+++ RIP
International nuclear fusion project may be delayed by years, its head admitsFacility still far from being able to show feasibility of generating plentiful, carbon-free energy despite recent breakthrough in USwww.theguardian.com -
No mention was made of a zero precious metals formulation then. Indeed, I don't recall any mention of a zero precious metals mesh until half way through 2022.
You took part in the discussion, but for other members information, nickec started a thread about that Mizuno style reactors WITHOUT precious metals...by Nickec
-
There are heat loss calculators...Nusselt no's can get complicated..
eg
"The main use of this module is to estimate total heat loss or draw the temperature profile of a wall or reactor"
Here is a reasonably good answer.
https://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/old/5814.pdf -
Here is a reasonably good answer.
The doc includes.
"Adding the minimum panel conductance 2 of 1.0 W/m2 K (fully evacuated with a cool hydride) to the calculated hydrogen gas conductance of about 8.4 W/m2 K"
.How "reasonably good" depends on the question parameters
. the ratio of heat flow via hydrogen'conductance' versus HF via radiation will depend on the reactor configuration and the temperature differentials inter alia,,
Stefan's Law gives 2664 W/m2 radiative HF for a temp.diff of 300C/versus 70C,,,, emissivity 0.5,,,
-
The doc includes.
"Adding the minimum panel conductance 2 of 1.0 W/m2 K (fully evacuated with a cool hydride) to the calculated hydrogen gas conductance of about 8.4 W/m2 K"
.How "reasonably good" depends on the question parameters
. the ratio of heat flow via hydrogen'conductance' versus HF via radiation will depend on the reactor configuration and the temperature differentials inter alia,,
Stefan's Law gives 2664 W/m2 radiative HF for a temp.diff of 300C/versus 70C,,,, emissivity 0.5,,,
The general question revolves around whether the low pressure hydrogen gas flows or circulates around the inside of the reactor or if hydrogen molecules just rockets around the inside with a boring Boltzmann distribution
-
You took part in the discussion, but for other members information, nickec started a thread about that Mizuno style reactors WITHOUT precious metals...by Nickec
The problem with the new thread is that Daniel_G has indicated that all details about meshes that produce excess heat without the use of precious metals are confidential. So the thread is bound to be nothing but speculation.
In contrast, Daniel_G has been plain that Mizuno regards information about his experiments involving the R20-style meshes to be openly available. It was even said that raw data files from 2020-21 experiments were to be posted. That hasn't happened yet, but it might.
-
My apologies Bruce as I’ve been working 18h days lately and my brevity may be interpreted as me being coy or rude. I periodically glance at the forum and tried to answer as best I could without thoroughly studying the thread. I will give a more complete answer as soon as time permits. Many different reactor types and many different calorimeters can create confusion. I’ll give a more precise answer when I’ve had enough of both sleep and coffee
-
Our new high power reactor will be finished within 2 weeks. I will send photos soon.
We are also thinking about mesh preparation process without a precisous metal. We are convinced that Copper will work similarly as Palladium. We will try this likely within one month.
-
After going back over this thread to track what Daniel_G was saying in early 2021, I believe that he did claim to evoke LENR heating using the standard R20-style mesh in an "incubator" oven which delivers uniform heating from outside the reactor. This contrasts with the comments of me356 who says that he obtains LENR heat using using a heater located along the axial centreline of the reactor. As Alan Smith mentioned earlier, Mizuno also claimed success with a centrally placed heater.
Based on all this, I think that my previous observation stands ... if me356 and Daniel_G's accounts are both correct, temperature gradients probably don't play much of role in initiating excess heating, I understand the point that once heating is ignited in various parts of the mesh it could lead to local temperature gradients that may amplify or sustain excess heat. But the problem magicsound is faced with is initiating the behaviour, and I don't see much indication that temperature gradients will play a role in this.
-
The key to triggering LENR reaction is (all other things being equal) creating flux within the lattice, by which I mean creating conditions that cause the migration of adsorbed/absorbed gases through the metal. This is normally done by varying temperature, pressure or the magnetic environment. Recent reports by Iwamura (viz ICCF-24) give one such example. The fact that Daniel is producing a LENR reaction inside an isothermic chamber at constant pressure is surprising, and I would love to see more.
-
Bruce__H: Initiating LENR and getting measurable and usable output is very different task.
You have to decide whether you will do what is easier for you or what is making it work well.
I think Mizuno paper is clear in this matter.
Mizuno shared very important data which you are trying to ignore for some strange reason.
Instead of asking why it helps so much you are trying to find reasons why his claims are not important.
I dont understand why anyone would want to "not replicate" the experiment when it is clear it worked with high COP.
Until now there was no real public replication. Each attempt had even different reactor diameter and length. Even that you can ask Mizuno directly, likely nobody asked him for detailed reactor internal design.
-
mizunotadahiko is a forum member (though it is 7 months since he logged in -understandable) it would be nice if he could comment in any of this himself.
-
Until now there was no real public replication. Each attempt had even different reactor diameter and length.
Ubaldo Mastromatteo testedt a R20 full scale reactor, but the internal construction was different, with a smaller mesh attached to the central internal heater, rather than rolled and slid into the shell.
He presented some results in 2020 at Assisi:
Anv4ws33 Mastromatteo Mizunowww.youtube.comThere may have been around 10% excess thermal output, but the calibrations appear to have rather large variation and so I consider the reported data inconclusive.
-
From memory, Mastromatteo was also using an aluminium reactor with Viton seals, such as a system is restricted to below 300C and is also very difficult to bake out. I think that posed some fundamental problems for the methodology.
-
From memory, Mastromatteo was also using an aluminium reactor with Viton seals, such as a system is restricted to below 300C and is also very difficult to bake out. I think that posed some fundamental problems for the methodology.
He got much better results with powder presented at last IWHALM, still a related work.
-
Old stuff
[ ... is creating flux ...]
-
Old stuff
[ ... is creating flux ...]
US5942206 is interesting but not relevant here because the concentration technique is said to depend critically on an impermeable surface layer trapping the deuterium inside the palladium lattice (so that deuterium at the hot end cannot just diffuse out of the lattice and must therefore diffuse towards the cold end). No such coatings anywhere in the Mizuno-style preparations so far as I know.
-
This however, is relevant to the question of flux, a double-blind analysis of around 80 LENR experiments mostly performed in the ENEA lab in Frascati Italy.
Abstract (excerpt)
From the review of experiments summarized in this article, we obtain indications that the main parameter controlling the AHE is the flux of reactive species through the surface of the loaded material. As a consequence, all other external conditions of the reactor core (voltage–current, temperature, pressure, electric field stimulations, DC and/or AC external fields), can be seen as co-factors that enable a flux of active species through surfaces and in the bulk of the materials. Although most of the tests are in agreement with a possible flux model, some results still lack an interpretation, probably due to limits of the experimental setup.
http://www.cleanhme.eu/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Celani-ICCF22_publicato.pdf
