Team Google wants your opinion: "What is the highest priority experiment the LENR community wants to see conducted?"

Quote from Shane D.

If I had to chose today, #1 would be Takahashi's (Technova/Nissan & Tohoku/Kobe/Kyushu/Nagoya Universities) group. One does not have to be skilled in the lab to understand why. They have many on their team, and replicated each other. That is almost as good as a high impact journal peer review. A huge bonus, is that their team requested their work be replicated by others, and put out a rough blueprint to follow. I do believe also, that they would be open to any assistance requested by Team Google? And if it were necessary to keep that assistance quiet, there none better at keeping a secret than the Japanese.

Then, how could one beat Forsley/Mossier-Boss, and their co-dep work? It has been around for many years, and peer reviewed. So confident are they about their results, they are disseminating a kit as part of the STEM program. Better yet, GEC and NASA are incorporating the system into their hybrid space power generation system. That relationship has been ongoing almost 2 years now, at NASA's Plum Brook station near Cleveland, and it still appears to be progressing along well. How is that for confirmation of it's feasibilty? As with Takahashi; Larry, and Pam would I think be more than happy to help.

Not knocking Mizuno/Rothwell, but at this point that is an unknown. If Google had to start tomorrow to lay the ground work for the next research project, at least they have two other good choices already in hand.

But we are still not finished. I am still interested in what Russia has to offer? There has been so much quality research going on there for decades, much of it with positive results. I would think if they took their 3 best, their "list" for Google, would rival our 3. SERGEI ?

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Let’s hope Google throws caution

to the wind and goes for all of the

above choices.

Not sure if this deserves a different thread; but, I haven't seen a plausible rationale as to why Russia hasn't commercialized some 30 years of ongoing efforts by noble scientists in the area in regards to LENR devices.

Any thoughts about this matter?

Quote from Alan Smith

Scuttlebutt is that Russia has LENR-powered cruise missiles.

Yes; but, even in the resource plentiful land of the post-USSR, now Russia, there is a neoclassical simple cost benefit rationale that could be applied here, or is there?

Given that Russia is the main exporter of nuclear technology, would a working LENR reactor/home device really diminish the growth of their energy industry? That's about the only reason I can surmise as to why we don't see LENR devices with a 'Made in Russia' logo on it...

Quote from Promethian

Not sure if this deserves a different thread; but, I haven't seen a plausible rationale as to why Russia hasn't commercialized some 30 years of ongoing efforts by noble scientists in the area in regards to LENR devices.

Any thoughts about this matter?

They have nothing practical, any more than anyone else does. There is not a single cold fusion device that could be commercialized. They cannot even be controlled. If the Mizuno device works as claimed, it might be commercialized in the future, but that will be many years and many billions of dollars from now.

Quote from Director

The real reason we don't see an LENR device with a 'Made in Russia' logo is that there seems to be some sort of coordinated agreement to suppress the reality of certain physical realities, such as the scalar and vector potentials.

No, the real reason is that no one has the slightest idea how to make a practical cold fusion device. No one even knows how to make one that can be controlled or scaled up. Look at the range of power you get from the small ones. It is usually zero, sometimes 0.1 W, sometimes 5 or 10 W. It is completely unpredictable and the power increases and decreases rapidly without control. Now, imagine scaling that up to a 10 kW motor. It would usually produce nothing, sometimes something, and sometimes a megawatt, briefly, before exploding. You could not possible make that into a practical source of energy. You cannot even experiment with it safely at power levels above 10 W.

Quote from Director

If the Mizuno technology works as claimed, which I'm fairly confident it does, then it's a poorly optimized technology with a tremendous amount of low hanging fruit. I expect very bright Chinese citizens will figure out how to simplify fuel treatment, fuel prep, reactor construction, and everything else that's required to design a simplified, low cost system. My guess is that in a few years a black market will form because businesses who need low grade heat will see this as a dirt cheap source of energy and it will save them money. The govt. may try to crack down on them, or, if we're lucky, they may embrace the technology at high speed to gain a competitive advantage against all other nations on the planet.

I don't really buy into the idea that Russia is inept or sleeping away or doesn't have the knowledge as to how to commercialize a working device. China and Russia and India have a cozy relationship in regards to joint ventures in regards to technology sharing and research development. From an economic standpoint, not much is held as "other things equal" (et ceteris paribus), and LENR, would actually dramatically increase the demand for energy over time (not initially at least). I really do hope that China and India reach out to Russia and simply ask them for the blueprints for working LENR devices, which must be seen by those respective nations as something of a fairy tale, at least until recently.

Quote from clarifier

In fact we should be fair and try to summarize, WHO is a proper representant for LENR and WHY.

A representative should not be easily diagnosed as a crackpot or someone with underlying mental issues. The representative should be someone with a respected science or engineering background, but open minded. They should attempt to follow the scientific method. We need to be taken seriously to advance the science.

Quote from Director

If the Mizuno technology works as claimed, which I'm fairly confident it does, then it's a poorly optimized technology with a tremendous amount of low hanging fruit. I expect very bright Chinese citizens will figure out how to simplify fuel treatment, fuel prep, reactor construction, and everything else that's required to design a simplified, low cost system.

Well, not ordinary citizens. I am sure that Chinese physicists, engineers, and industrialists could figure this out. So could the physicists, engineers and industrialists in Japan, the U.S., the EU, Russia, India and every other country in the world with an industrial establishment. I am sure they all will. However, this will take time and money. It will be roughly as difficult as developing jet aircraft, the IBM 360 computer, or self-driving cars. It will be difficult because there is a gigantic range of energy devices, starting from hearing aid batteries going up to jet aircraft engines and earth-to-orbit spacecraft engines. I suppose experts in all of these technologies will eventually learn to apply cold fusion, but it will take as much effort and as many years as it took to apply microprocessors to all of these things, and also to things like hotel door locks and telephones. This took about 20 years, from 1980 to 2000.

If you suppose a few Chinese people are going to develop cold fusion nuclears and begin selling them without permission, you know nothing about China. Or any other industrial nation. Chinese industrial standards are strict as ours, or anyone else's. Their pollution standards and anti-earthquake construction laws are also as strict as ours, although they are often ignored, and officials who are supposed to enforce them are bought off. You might try bribing them before selling a cold fusion heater without certification, but I doubt you could get away with it. No inspector or regulator would want that pinned on him when the newspapers and the public find out. As I said before, we are talking about SWAT teams and people going to jail for long periods before the trial begins. Especially in China. The Chinese and Japanese regulators are even more unreasonable and difficult to get past than U.S. and EU officials.

The idea that a heater could be developed, safety tested and certified in a few years is ludicrous. No one has any idea how they work! It will take years of intense research by the best labs in the world before the experts agree. It will be time well spent. The theories they figure out may revolutionize many areas of physics. While they are doing that, ordinary engineers will be inventing ways to apply this energy to hearing aid batteries, heaters, generators and so on. The public will be fully aware of this, just as it is aware of progress in self-driving cars and artificial intelligence. When the products are introduced, the public will have confidence they are safe and reliable.

That is only way to go forward in the 21st century. It is also the most reliable, comprehensive and the fastest way forward, looking at the big picture. Think about the larger goal. Do you want to sell a few thousand heaters in few years? Or do you want to sell hundreds of millions of heaters, generators, automobile engines and every other power supply starting a generation from now? Do you want a few people to make a few million dollars before they are hauled off to jail? Or do you want just about every person on earth to benefit from using cold fusion, and to stop global warming nearly overnight? To do this on a large scale, you have to use large-scale institutions such as Hitachi, and global scale methods. Selling a few heaters would accomplish nothing, in my opinion. Replicating few hundred Mizuno devices (assuming this can be done) can trigger a world-wide technological and scientific revolution, but selling a few would be a stupid mistake and a waste of time, and a violation of many laws.

Quote from PhysicsForDummies

A representative should not be easily diagnosed as a crackpot or someone with underlying mental issues.

Unfortunately, the mass media, the APS and other institutions opposed to cold fusion say that everyone in this field is crazy. They say we are all frauds and lunatics.

There are, actually, more crazy people in cold fusion than other fields. This is typical of nascent science, as I described here, on p. 13:

https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJlessonsfro.pdf

Anyone involved in cold fusion has to be strong minded and have independent views. To a conformist or a know-nothing journalist, such people often seem crazy.

Quote from PhysicsForDummies

The representative should be someone with a respected science or engineering background, but open minded.

Most people in the field such as Ed Storms and Mel Miles are like that. However, the mass media ignores them, and Google did not consult with them.

Quote from PhysicsForDummies

They should attempt to follow the scientific method. We need to be taken seriously to advance the science.

We always do that. As Martin Fleischmann said, we are painfully conventional people. We have done all that can be done to advance the science, using ordinary methods that people say we are supposed to do. It has had no effect at all, because of academic politics.

The only thing that will change this situation is greed. Once it becomes generally known that cold fusion is real, any industrialist will see it can be used to take away the earnings of the energy industry. That is $6 trillion a year sitting on the table, and taking it away from OCEC and the coal companies will be like taking candy from a baby.

We always do that. As Martin Fleischmann said, we are painfully conventional people. We have done all that can be done to advance the science, using ordinary methods that people say we are supposed to do. It has had no effect at all, because of academic politics.

Not true: I think. What can still be done (could have been done) is take your simplest strongest replicable LENR experiment (which you say there are many of), replicate it with better instrumentation and more checks against anomalies. Write a stonking paper showing extraordinary results and all the attempts made to explain them conventionally without mentioning LENR.

In fact that (to get back on topic) is what I think google should do: and all it needs is for you here to decide what is your best will have definite positive results experiment.

Those who say Mizuno here are taking a risk. And an unnecessary one. If those results (R19, R20) faithfully represent excess power than a lab rat extraordinary science demonstrator is available that will ignite the world. As far as I can see there are numbers of people who want to replicate, on that basis.

However, if those results turn out to be mistaken, exact replication of Mizuno with better instrumentation will show nothing. I trust Mckubre's set of results much more. They have better documented methodology, better instrumentation, are more comprehensive.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Those who say Mizuno here are taking a risk.

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Quote from RobertBryant

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Sorry RB: I thought my post was clear. I'm not sure which aspect you don't understand? That statement relates to the thread topic - which LENR experiment would it be most productive fro google to try replicating.

Quote from clarifier

You say "we". Do You consider Yourself a proper scientist ?

That spotlights one of the most interesting aspects of “the LENR community”: it is mostly composed of individuals without scientific training or experience. So when Google solicits input from the community, are they really hoping to hear from people whose expertise consists of whatever information they have gleaned from the Internet, or are they really hoping to hear from actual LENR experts? There are assuredly many crackpots in “the community “, but I doubt many of them are actual LeNR researchers.