SAFIRE, SUNCELL, E-CAT SK: Three reactors, three theories, one common unifying mechanism - the EVO (Exotic Vacuum Object). [Brown's Gas Joins the Club!]

  • I would like to add a fourth theory that may be commonly applicable to Sapphire, Suncell and Ecat SK(L) to challenge Director with the aim of a fair and calm discussion.


    As some forum members might recall I am an admirer of the works of Leif Holmlid.

    I've expressed earlier thoughts (April 2016) that Rossi and Holmlid might have in common that they both deal with Ultra Dense Hydrogen/Deuterium.

    I'd like to add now other LENR related companies and researchers to that thought (e.g. Sapphire team, Suncell team).


    In my thoughts the following components play an important role:

    1. Atomic Hydrogen/Deuterium
    2. Suitable catalyst(s) to form Rydberg/Ultra Dense Hydrogen/Deuterium
    3. A (controlable) energy trigger source to release high energy particles from Ultra Dense Hydrogen/Deuterium.

    1. Atomic hydrogen/Deuterium

    This can be produced in many different ways. A few to mention here:

    • at the surface of specific metals that are able to absorb/desorb hydrogen/deuterium
    • an arc/plasma method. Such method is commonly used for atomic hydrogen welding, where a sustained (AC powered) arc is produced between two hollow tungsten electrodes. Heat produced within the arc separates molecular hydrogen into atomic hydrogen. In the case of metal welding, the atomic hydrogen is recombined at the metal surface of the to be welded parts while releasing high temperatures caused by the recombination energy of hydrogen atoms to molecular hydrogen. The hydrogen arc welding method does not consume the tungsten electrodes.

    2. Suitable catalyst(s) to form Rydberg/Ultra Dense Hydrogen/Deuterium

    These catalysts are well known. Holmlid did use a particular commercial Royal Shell catalyst (potassium doped FeO).

    The use of Pottasium, Lithium is commonly mentioned in patent (applications), scientific articles.

    All parties, Rossi, Sapphire project team and Suncell team have mentioned at least the use of Lithium if I recall well.


    3. A (controlable) energy trigger source to release high energy particles from Ultra Dense Hydrogen/Deuterium.

    Holmlid indicated the use of a laser that can be controlled very accurate. But, he also indicated that Ultra Dense Hydrogen/Deuterum is emitting high energy particles spontaniously or influenced by even the light of his laboratory ceiling lights. This shows that the emission of high energy particles from Ultra Dense Hydrogen/Deuterium is difficult to control.

    The stream of ions or electrons in a plasma would also be a useable trigger source, be it not very controllable since this plasma is also used to generate atomic hydrogen/deuterium.

    Infrared radiation would also be a possible source for the release of high energy particles from Ultra Dense Hydrogen/Deuterium (think Mizuno R20).


    All parties, Rossi, Sapphire project team and Suncell team, showed they have all 3 components mentioned above in their setups available and they heavily struggle with control of their process because the trigger energy applied to UDH/UDD is hardly controlled in their setups sofar. This is where Holmlid is much more in control with regards to his process to release high energy particles.

    In particular Rossi has shown remarkable steps to improve his methods. He started with using Nickel powder (suitable of creating atomic hydrogen by absorb/desorb hydrogen), but suffered probably huge problems caused by sintering of nickel powder. Remember that Rossi mentioned in the early days (2011-2013) that the excess heat was generated in the (borium/lead) shielding of his reactor tubes, probably because of absorption of high energy particles. Now he seems to use plasma only avoiding sintering issues and allowing for more control.


    The control issue using plasma is obvious if my theory is correct: there are two parameters that needs to be controlled while using plasma, the first one being the generations of the precise amount of atomic hydrogen (to form UDH) and the second one being the amount of trigger energy. With plasma methods shown by Rossi, Sapphire- and Suncell teams, both parameters are not controlled independantly. This might be the key challenge for all involved parties.




  • Before Browns Gas can become a full member of the club, it needs to win a gas vs gas challenge. Browns Gas versus oxypropane and and bottled oxyhydrogen.


    Just to bring this up to speed, I already burnt a pure tungsten welding rod in half with oxypropane from a cheap torch kit.

    I also read the flame temperature by IR (using the same IR band and emissivity settings as for the Browns Gas reports) for oxypropane and got about 85 C.

    (I will not burn/heat radioactive stuff with any torch to see if the radiation drops).

  • https://e-catworld.com/2020/01…safire-projects-publishd/


    I'm the user that located Montgomery Childs SAFIRE Project related patents.


    There are a few interesting tidbits in the patent. One is that the hollow anode is made out of a steel (which would contain Fe) containing at least 20% nickel. This meshes with the slide that's briefly shown in the background in the 2019 SAFIRE Presentation in which a FeNi sphere salted with Lithium Oxide is mentioned.


    So now we know three of their mystery elements: tungsten, iron, and nickel.


    I would go on to say that I suspect but I do not know for certain that they are using the following alloy.


    https://www.nickel-alloys.net/invar_nickel_iron_alloy.html


    The following page explains that it's very hard to find pure invar alloy with just the main alloying elements. However, they are such a company and sell many such hard to find versions of invar. This makes me wonder if the following company is one of The SAFIRE Project's suppliers.


    https://www.steelforge.com/lit…etal-tidbits/invar/#Invar


    Also, there is one form of Invar that has added chromium. This is called Super Invar. This allowing further inhibits thermal expansion which is one of the beneficial properties that might make the SAFIRE Project want to use invar in addition to the elemental composition. For example, this could inhibit the metal hollow sphere from expanding under high temperature and breaking the weld.

  • I have noticed this myself for quit a while and am quite curiously leaning into the concept that this is what is going on hydrogen state change into a form that more easily releases high energy output.


    Ain't nessasarily fusion but the formation and decay of non-singularity hydrogen/electron constructs. Pico-chemical formation and annialation/decay catalyzed or of the same substance?


    And you are right all those variables would be included in those proposals, as we have absorbed what is available on the internet. I dont know what the missing variables are yet but I pray for a union of cohesive concepts.

  • From Director:

    Quote

    Also, there is one form of Invar that has added chromium. This is called Super Invar. This allowing further inhibits thermal expansion which is one of the beneficial properties that might make the SAFIRE Project want to use invar in addition to the elemental composition. For example, this could inhibit the metal hollow sphere from expanding under high temperature and breaking the weld.

    Last presentation on their site safireprojects.com: If you look to the element analysis of the anode after the ’catalytic event’ then the elements Fe, Ni and also Cr are missing, whereas other elements that could have polluted the measurement and used in the reactor like Al and Si are indicated. I understand that they do not really want to uncover their secrets before their patents are filed, but this is falsifying the research results. I didn’t check if they said that some elements were left out purposely for NDA or such reasons.

  • Ain't nessasarily fusion but the formation and decay of non-singularity hydrogen/electron constructs. Pico-chemical formation and annialation/decay catalyzed or of the same substance?


    Holmlid indicates several ways to obtain energy from UHD/UDD. It could be in the form of fusion, heat or electricity, depending on the implementation.

    Norront Fusion Energy AS aims to commercialize the works of Leif Holmlid by focussing on annihilation.

    Holmlid has a stake in Norront Fusion Energy AS.


  • Does anyone know what the COP of the SAFIRE reactor is? More than Brillouin's?


    Gerard McEk wrote about his meeting Safire:


    https://e-catworld.com/2019/11…he-global-bem-conference/


    "With only 7% of the design input energy, they got 100% of the design output (113 kW) This means a COP of about 14! And even a meltdown, totally impossible according them and scientists of a Los Alamos lab, they consulted."

  • Shane D. COP calculation is always a tricky. Calibrating small calorimeter is hard. They had room size chamber.

    It is a sweet feeling thinking you just reproduced the process in the Sun but we are all waiting for a self-powered prototype. Right? Will your settle for very expensive Longmuir probe burner instead?

  • The COP of the SAFIRE Reactor can be through the roof.


    The whole explanation they gave in their presentation was misleading in that it downplayed the excess power produced.


    They gave the incomplete explanation that they were only using 7% of their maximum input power when they were using the power for cooling that would have been required if they were using 100% of their input power. This could make someone think that the COP was only ten to twenty. However, in reality, the reactor soared in temperature to around 500C and using the heating curve they calculated that for an input of 1800 watts they were producing either ten million or thirty million watts (I don't remember which). I'm going to go into the interview and try to get the exact statement.


    What's important to note is that he claims they know the exact conditions that reproduce this effect. Putting together his various comments and looking at his patents, this took place when they cranked up the voltage to around ten amps and collapsed the double layers so they were close to the anode.

  • Found the segment of the video and made a transcript of an interview Monty gave:


    Monty: We were really quite taken back by those results because you have to go back and I can get into some of those things. We didn't expect the plasma to self organize. We didn't expect that with 1800 watts DC power going in that when those double layers would explode that it had a surge, not a spike, but a surge of over 10,000,000 watts. We couldn't measure it. Our instruments... we have pretty good instruments. It went right off the scale. We had a thumb nail drive in a computer twenty feet away that was flashing. The computer was not plugged in. So the EM field was flashing off this little ball that was made out of some special material and, um, not that elaborate material but it was something that the EU had agreed to or Wal Thornhill agreed that we think this material or they think this material would be useful to use.


    From a little further in the video...


    Monty: But we've never seen anything like this. And there's no precedent in plasma physics right now that can explain what is going on there.

    Host: So this is in terms of amount of energy you put in vs. the amount of energy that you are seeing produced inside of the machine?

    Monty: Yes, specifically it has to do with the rise in temperature over time. As I mentioned, I wanted to communicate to the audience that if you are going to do.. I didn't get into this... but if you want to do a total energy evaluation you have to have calormetric or calorimetry to do this properly. But what we do know is that if you have evidence of a very high rate of rise in temperature over time that goes directly to the amount of energy that is causing that. That's what my point was about... You know it takes a certain amount of time to heat it with this much energy but if you have a bazillion watts going into something it will rise very, very quickly. And I don't know if I was effectively communicating that or not. That is what we saw happen. So for three years we ran the experiment and it always worked within the parameter set we had designed it to until we started to see the transmutation. So the double layers, the formation of the double layers, the transmutation, the segregation, and the sequestering of elements that we've talked about that. And the sudden rise of thermal temperature all happening concurrently...


    Host: So they are all linked? Something is happening that is causing all of these things and releasing this energy?


    Monty: Yes.

  • This all sounds very promising but still rather anecdotal. Why, if they really have a new power source to solve our energy crisis, do they not do the excess heat/power measurements to demonstrate this? Or couldn't team Google have simply replicated their system?:)

  • Thanks to Frank Acland (Ecat World) for this.


    Thanks to an ECW reader for sending the following links and comments about patents filed at the US Patent Office by Montgomery Childs (of the SAFIRE project)

    Electrode Assembly for Plasma Generation

    http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20190059149.pdf

    Ion Generator Apparatus

    http://www.freepatentsonline.com/10398015.pdf

    Manipulator for Movement of Articles in a Controlled Environment Chamber

    http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20160368153.pdf

    They reveal a few tidbits, such as a steel anode with at least 20% nickel content.

    Also, the reactor is already built with additional features they have not discussed publicly. For example, magnetic cones that could be used to move the plasma around.

    Also, it talks about the potential application of RF or microwaves to augment the plasma
    Monty Childs talked about that during an interview.

    This is the same phenomena but in a different arrangement than the E-Cat. The macro-EVO in this case is wrapped around the anode vs. free floating like like the in video of the E-Cat SK

  • Good to read some simple straightforward patent applications so hopefully this SAFIRE technology can be fine tuned and developed into an efficient LENR reactor. It does seem to have all the necessary components, excess energy, transmutations and the Fe content of the anode may be sufficiently oxidized to promote dense H cluster formation as a precursor to fusion. :)

  • What makes me more happy than anything else about the SAFIRE project is that Aurtas international started its involvement as a contractor being paid to independently test what most orthodox experts and highly praised academics would call “a foolish pseudoscientific loony idea”. And so the project started and they did their job, and, to their own surprise, they came to the conclusion that the “foolish pseudoscience” was at least on the right track to explain many of the observations about the Sun. And in the way they also found many unexpected things as transmutation and “energy efficiency”.


    The fact that Monty Childs - who admittedly entered into this just doing his job and could not care less if the sun was electric or not- threw his independence through the window and became involved and commanding the development of the SAFIRE project results, speaks volumes.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • Why, if they really have a new power source to solve our energy crisis,


    SAFIRE has been focusing on investigating the electric sun hypothesis..

    Results so far suggest the Electric Sun is possible....likely? but where the 300 Volts electrode potential originates is a mystery

    Electric Sun has more going for it than the traditional gravity compression hypothesis...


    Using the electrodes as an earthgrown solar source will take a while longer..and a few millions of $

    Properly engineered calorimetry is a first step.. which will take a year or two..

    perhaps Monty Childs is working on that now..

  • Liberty*Oracle


    2 posts of yours moved to 'Clearance Items' thread. The reason - verging on politics and also very cryptic, and mostly 'off topic'. I must point out that this 95% (we hope and strive to achieve) a scientific forum, and we try to keep focused on purely scientific discussions relevant to the thread they are posted in.