Off-topic posts moved from ICFC-22 threads

  • If you're talking about Celani's report at a 2011 Rossi demo, it was anecdotal and just as worthless and useless as Mizuno's water bucket anecdote.


    It was anecdotal, which is why Celani said "who knows?" when I asked him what to make of it. Mizuno's heat after death, on the other hand, was recorded on a pen recorder, described in detail in several reports and a book, witnessed by his co-author, and replicated hundreds of times. That's not "anecdotal." That's the opposite of an anecdote.


    But anyway, you should tell us how Rossi triggered the event witnessed by Celani. What sleight of hand trick did he use? Assuming Celani was not lying, it must have happened. It is not likely he made a mistake reading two different meters. Since it was a single isolated event (unlike Mizuno's HAD it was not reproduced hundreds of times) we cannot draw any conclusions, but it was probably a real physical event.


    "Anecdotal" is not a curse word. It does not mean "unscientific" or "worthless" or "should be ignored." Anecdotal events have often led to important scientific and technological breakthroughs. We should pay attention to them, and try to replicate the ones that may be important evidence of an anomaly.

  • IMO, those who want to hang on to a lost cause, will not play much of a role going forward.

    Rossi’s e-cat is a sort of litmus test for checking which people / groups are affin to crackpot science.

    (Ouch, it really hurts when I write the words “Rossi” and “science” in one sentence.)

  • Quote

    But anyway, you should tell us how Rossi triggered the event witnessed by Celani.

    Rossi probably didn't. Maybe the instrument got jarred and hiccuped. Since it's anecdotal, who knows? Like Mizuno's miraculous bucket episode, it has never happened again. Big Foot sightings are more frequent.


    BTW, the technical critique was the deliberate and enforced absence of blanks and calibrations by Rossi in all his early experiments. And BTW, the hot cat experiments were completely unneeded to accomplish anything other than distraction. I can't believe after all these years, you're still defending the old crook. Sure says something about your current claims!


    Quote

    It is not likely he [Celani] made a mistake reading two different meters. Since it was a single isolated event (unlike Mizuno's HAD it was not reproduced hundreds of times) we cannot draw any conclusions, but it was probably a real physical event.

    Your earlier post said there were two radiation meters and both "pegged" during Rossi's early demo. Where did you see or read that? How did you learn it? You did read my citation from Krivit? You know, the one from me that never reads anything?

  • Rossi’s e-cat is a sort of litmus test for checking which people / groups are affin to crackpot science.

    (Ouch, it really hurts when I write the words “Rossi” and “science” in one sentence.)

    It is unfortunate, but I agree on your litmus statement.


    Look at the posters here who continually support Rossi. They can never provide ANY supportive facts about the eCat ever working, yet continue hold on to the faith regardless of how bad Rossi lies, cheats and deceives.


    Some here say he had working technology "early" on etc. but he "gave up on it". I am going to step out on a limb here because some that continue to support Rossi are certainly to be respected over all and are far more educated and experienced than I in LENR subjects. HOWEVER, that does not mean they are not blind in this area.


    I (and many, many others) have CLOSELY followed Rossi for 8+ years. We have read almost every article, post, event, court document ad nauseum. It is absolutely clear and proven than Rossi has lied and deceived during the entire 11 year drama. That he has admitted to fraud and been caught several other times. His tests have been not only horrid, but shown faulty, often shown intentionally. (He even admitted on some occasions, such as to Hydrofusion)


    Yet those who "this early test clearly showed excess heat" are either fooled or simply did not examine the facts and took other's word for it. This is quite damning to their reputations when they continue to give credence to the scam. Even respected researchers who state that "early tests showed.." never give any supportive facts / data to back these claims. I suspect, they simply are taking others input (such as Lewan's) and their trust has been greatly misplaced.


    The fact that few visited Cydonia's presentation is not some conspiratorial black list. Rossi himself has clearly shown himself to be a fraud and the vast majority of true researchers see past the smoke and mirrors. There is indeed nothing to see about the eCat except a big scam. It does not work nor never did.


    As has been done before, if any Rossi supporter, including Cydonia, have any experimental facts, data and or substantial evidence that the eCats EVER worked, they should present it! Not their pet theory on how it might have worked, but evidence that it ever DID work. I can present my theory on why Big Foot exists, but that gives no credence that it actually does. The same as with Rossi and the eCats.


    Yes, researchers who give Rossi any credence at all are only damaging their reputation. His own actions, court depositions, demos and history show he is a liar and deceiver. Yet, some want to believe in LENR so bad, they will accept the scammer in spite of the facts.


    If the above about Rossi are not true, I anxiously await rebuttal. I truly would LOVE (as I was a Rossi supporter early on) to see the eCats be real, working technology.

    However they simply are not and I have never yet seen any supporter provide ANY hard evidence that they ever worked. "Rossi says" means zero. "I was told by experts that...." means nothing either unless those experts are willing to put their names and facts to the claims. True evidence only.


    Thus the the poster is not held in much appreciation. Thus the claims of others (who supported Rossi and now threads deleted) will not garner much respect. And I suspect that if a researcher continues to hold Rossi's eCat as an LENR example, they will NOT be taken seriously by most.... only by the Rossi faithful. It is kind of like a scientist that may be very smart but still holds to the "flat earth" belief, will not be taken seriously in any of his efforts! A scientist who proclaims that Big Foot is a real entity will be held in skepticism. A scientist claiming UFO abductions is likely not going to garner much respect. These are all very similar to supporting Rossi!


    :thumbup:

  • The ICCF dinner was really good, we enjoyed a good bottle of Amaretto at the end with friends from the field.

    Also, what I can answer you is that I don't try to appear serious or convinced, in fact, I don't care what you think of me, REALLY 8)8)8)

    in fact, only serious people know who I really am :)

  • Rossi probably didn't. Maybe the instrument got jarred and hiccuped.


    Of course Rossi didn't. That was a joke. You cannot make a digital instrument register radiation by "jarring" it. Shaking such instruments does not cause them register a false signal. Both instruments registered the maximum signal simultaneously.



    Like Mizuno's miraculous bucket episode, it has never happened again.


    You keep saying that, but saying does not make it so. It happened hundreds of times again, induced deliberately, by Fleischmann and Pons. Mizuno himself saw it happen again.


    If you were to say, "I do not think it happened, because I don't believe F&P's reports of HAD" that would make some kind of sense, but for you to simply ignore the reports is weird.



    Your earlier post said there were two radiation meters and both "pegged" during Rossi's early demo. Where did you see or read that?


    That's what Celani said. ("Pegged" means they both registered the maximum value and overflowed.)

  • That was what Celani was reported (by third parties) as saying at the time the incident occurred. He was said to have considered asking everyone present to leave.


    I think Celani occasionally posts to this site? Perhaps if asked, he would be so kind to clarify the situation!

    It is always best to obtain information directly from the source! It is amazing how a story can get modified (without ill intentions).


    It would be nice to have this rumor confirmed or dispelled.


    Thanks!

  • And the first link translated... (thank you can )



    ANSWER OF FRANCESCO CELANI


    I believe you have already given the right answers.

    * Dr. Bianchini used a RADIATION PROTECTION tool, so all values were averaged.

    * My instrument was instead a gamma spectrometer but used as an instant "counter".

    The energy response (with the appropriate software supplied) was 25-2000keV: (conventional) sodium doped iodide detector (in abbreviation: NaI (Tl)).

    The measure was in counts per second (cps).

    In other words, ANY signal range between the minimum detection level and the maximum (or higher) level gave a count.

    Every second the signal was reset and the previous one "scrolled" on the display.

    The local memory, on the display, was 50 acquisitions (I go to memory, I am on vacation ...), with an auto-refresh function.

    In the "large" room the values were around 60cps, quite stable.

    In the reactor room they were of the same value, even near the "reactor". All with "off" reactor.

    Out of curiosity, in my Laboratory in Frascati (volcanic zone => radioactive) the bottom is 100-110cps inside the Laboratory. Outside it is significantly larger (tuff).

    The counter / spectrometer, although constructively shielded against ELF and RF, was operated in Bologna with an internal battery to avoid possible strong "noises" from the 220Vac network, for example caused by electrical discharges or switching of triacs. The counter also had a sound alarm (the classic BEEP) I placed at around 400cps (if I remember correctly).

    * A simple Geiger counter (so-called alpha-beta-gamma) and ELF and RF detectors were also active. All the instruments were battery operated.

    * In short, everything was regular except for one EVENT just before Rossi left the reactor room to inform us that (finally) the reactor had left.

    During this event, with a MAXIMUM duration of one second, the counter / spectrometer gave a signal of about 1200 cps (again, if I remember correctly), the BEEP sounded, the Geiger counter went into "overflow" and I had to turn it off and turn it back on , as required by the procedure.

    The two counters of electromagnetic disturbances (ELF and RF) remained silent.

    Shortly after the BEEP, and observing the non-negligible value of the signal (about 20 times the local natural background), my colleagues and I looked at the door with "greed" ...

    Fortunately, the next second, everything was back to regular and we stayed in the room.

    * Possible hypotheses are:

    a) cosmic ray;

    b) "true" signal coming from the reactor during the crossing of some non-equilibrium phase.

    * During operation, after about 30 minutes at the beginning of the trial, I was allowed to enter the small room.

    The count value was, this time, increased to 60 at 90-120cps and was VERY IRREGULAR.

    However, these absolute values, as already mentioned, are compatible with the environmental fund.

    * I HAD NO POSSIBILITY to take measurements in spectrum

    * During the shutdown there was a similar phenomenon to that of the ignition but much-much weaker.

    Thanks for your attention,

    Francesco CELANI

  • I had not seen the above before.


    Quote

    * Possible hypotheses are:


    a) cosmic ray;


    b) "true" signal coming from the reactor during the crossing of some non-equilibrium phase.


    Which do you think is the more probable? Or do you really think this ...

    rossi-reactor.jpg

    ... was a fusion reactor?


    And it was made with...

    rossi-tools2.jpg

    ... these tools!


    ETA: 20X background? Typical background is 1.5 to 3.5 millisievert per year. 20X that rate would not be rapidly harmful so there was no need to panic.

    http://www.world-nuclear.org/u…ound_Radiation%281%29.pdf


    Not that the radiation was likely to have been emitted by Rossi's silly kludge which was mainly a combination of two large heaters, the largest of which heated only the cooling water!