THE NUCLEAR STRUCTURE RESEARCH GROUP

1st Official Post
    • Official Post

    THE NUCLEAR STRUCTURE RESEARCH GROUP (NSRG) - A tribute to the late Norman Cook.


    ICCF-22 attracted an unusually strong group of nuclear structure theorists, who represented almost 25% of the 150 attendees. This group (mostly) attended an evening meeting and one of the topics discussed was the need for improved communication between group members. Currently there are a couple of LENR email-based groups which are neither convenient or well supported. Accordingly, after discussion with the LENR-Forum team it was decided to offer them a private 'sub domain' within this forum on order to stimulate the exchange of ideas and theory papers. The group will be very strictly moderated, and membership is intended to be by invitation (by other members) only. Posts made there will not be visible to non-group members, but we hope there will be a public thread where some content will be duplicated. Current members of LENR-Forum will of course be able to apply for membership, but granting access will not be an automatic process. I have no doubt there will be a lot of heavy-duty math and topology involved, so not everybody's choice of chocolate biscuit. Sensible contributors will be welcomed, people just joining to bicker will be exiled.


    DID YOU GET AN EMAIL INVITATION ALREADY?


    • If you already have forum membership you will hit the 'access denied' page if you click the link to the registration page. This is, because you already are registered :)
      In that case send one of the team a PM via 'conversations' and you will get the relevant permissions.
      We will encourage (but not enforce) the use of real names btw.
    • If you are not already a member yet, you will need to register and wait for your membership and access to the private space to be approved by a team member.
    • After a team member granted access permissions to you, the new space is visible on the forum main page or on the left side of the portal page called "[PRIVATE] The Nuclear Structure Research Group". When you get to the new space you will see the current threads, and you will be able to create new ones or post in existing ones - or indeed you can post in the public threads.
    • Official Post
    Quote from Alan Smith

    The new space is visible on the left side of the portal screen, under Forum List/General Talks/NSRG though mobile phone users might see it differently. When you get to the new space a click on 'General Talks will show you the current threads, and you will be able to create new ones or post in existing ones- or indeed you can post in the public threads.


    Looks as if anther portal opened up since I last checked. Under left side "Forum List"/The Nuclear Structure Research Group (Private)/General Talk. Gets group participants to the same General Talk page as the more direct route. Just mentioning this so there is no confusion when the NSRG group sees it. Working out the kinks, but once everything is set, this is going to be a very nice addition to the forum.


    Thanks go to Alan/Barty for putting this together, and those LENR theoreticians for joining.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Wyttenbach

    Joining did no work....


    Joining is not done automatically. You have to ask Alan Smith for an invitation. Then you will be added to the user group which has access permissions.

    To be clear: this part is a closed non-public forum!


    If you are already a member of the forum you don't have to do anything!

    You just need to ask Alan Smith if he lets you in ;)

    • Official Post

    I am very optimistic about this new groups formation. Trevithick asked me once why I was doing what I do. My response was "to get all you smart people together, so you can solve this puzzle. Using the forums tools, we can float ideas here in a matter of weeks, instead of the years it takes via conferences".


    When Alan presented his offer at a special meeting of the AHG at ICCF22, it was for the same selfless reason...to get the smartest people together to solve this riddle. They took a vote and decided it was a good idea, and came up with the NSRG title.


    Many hurdles yet to overcome before they become a cohesive, coordinated think tank, but I think the pieces are falling in place. It may take a few weeks/months, but it is happening, and all for a very good cause. Once the teams roster is filled out and working together for the common goal, I expect some good things of them.

    Dear Shane D. as MT i have had same thoughts about your task, what you want to do :)

    Great job !

    About NSRG we should find ways soon to plan how to work together because i start to see that all theoreticians will be sticked with their own understanding.

    What you can propose to avoid that ?

    • Official Post
    Quote from Cydonia

    Dear Shane D. as MT i have had same thoughts about your task, what you want to do :)

    Great job !

    About NSRG we should find ways soon to plan how to work together because i start to see that all theoreticians will be sticked with their own understanding.

    What you can propose to avoid that ?

    I think that the way to do so is to look at what they agree on and start building from there. So far at least a sub group of them agrees that the nuclear structure is more influenced by electromagnetism and that QM is inadequate. That’s a start.

    • Official Post

    Cydonia


    Good question. Many were/are also part of the other group, so they must have established some "rules of engagement" to break down barriers built around entrenched thinking, while keeping it civil? Then there are always a few in a group as large as this is projected to be, who know how to encourage open, and frank discussion without ruffling too many feathers. I already see a few names on the list who have the experience, and leadership qualities to fill the position. Eventually a group leader/s will emerge to guide the process along. Like a High School dance, it will be awkward and quiet at first, but by the end of the night everyone will be dancing and having a good old time.


    Main thing is to leave ego behind when engaging in the thread. If you have authored a theory, or have advocated for a particular one; embrace being challenged on every point, every word, every equation...without taking it personal. It is only in that way can the merits be determined. After all, there are many theories, and not all can be right, which means most are wrong.


    Hopefully, in the end the wheat will be separated from the chaff, and we can bake a cake. Oh, and never forget to have a little fun while at it.

    If anybody would be interested, I am happy to test any nuclear model which predicts ground state atomic masses and or spins. Predictions are compared with the experimentally measured masses from The AME 2020 atomic mass evaluation https://www-nds.iaea.org/amdc/ The data has an RMS experimental error of 24 keV which is much better than any model can provide.


    Obviously you will need to specify your model in sufficient detail to construct an algorithm for testing.

    Testing out different computed algorithms using quantum physics seems like a good idea on paper. But always remember such algorithms are pre-programmed models of the universe, and so are limited forms of thinking. We at LENR forum are trying to escape such algorithm-limited thinking, although useful when applied to technology, still limit an infinity of possibilities to a much narrower list of probabilities. That is, we may miss vital data only revealed by empirical experimentation. A philosophical point, but valid nevertheless

    FWIW, the invitation only private section never attracted the numbers we hoped for. It could be the way it is set up, or something else. It is still there and ready to be used. If you are a player, or made some significant contribution to the field, just PM Alan, I or Curbina and we can give access. We still think it is the best, and most private way to communicate.

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