The two recent publications of accelerated radioactive decay of a solution prepared with Ni63 (acceleration of 22 years of decay in three short bursts of 100 seconds ultrasound treatment) are the last addition to an increasing body of evidence and claims of accelerated radioactivity decay by means of treatments that can be broadly considered to belong in the LENR category.

Prior similar claims have been done by the same authors with Thorium decay, and by others (Yull Brown with his Brown Gas, Ryushin Ohmasa with his vibration apparatus inducing rapid decay of radioactivity of tritium enriched water after some hours of treatment).

The claims seem to have adequate experimental and technical support, pending replications by others, but they offer the tantalizing possibility of a relatively easy to engineer way to treat the most complex of the results of current nuclear energy industry: the radioactive waste.

I want to start the discussion around this as it has been already proposed, and I tend to agree, that using this aspect of LENR could be the least resistance path to start reaping the benefits of LENR in a relatively shorter term while the energy production aspects are further developed.

Your thoughts?

The publications:

https://www.researchgate.net/p…_of_nickel-63_nitrate/amp

https://www.researchgate.net/p…f_ultrasounds_application

Quote from LeBob

My question is does this accelerated decay release the same thermal/particle decay energy that would have been released over many years in a shorter time? This could enable throttleable atomic decay based thermal/thermoelectric generators, RTGs that would enjoy a more intense output. Think practical atomic batteries that last 2 years off of material that has a half-life of 300. If it just somehow diverts it into matter or the input is greater than the output it would still be very amazing and useful in near future fission.

As in other LENR related phenomena, as transmutations, it does not produce any extra radiation.

I just changed the title of the thread as it was pointed out to me by Dr. Cardone that the technology does not induce a radioactive decay increase, as I incorrectly interpreted, but completely transmutes radioactive elements into estable ones.

Thus the net effect is the disappearance of radioactive elements, which is even better, engineering and technology wise.

Quote from Wyttenbach

Only the radioactivity disappears. ⁶³Ni goes to ⁶³Cu all the rest information of the paper is highly speculative - especially the change of isotopes they measure. Sonotrode/containers air etc contain always traces of all elements they measure.

They claim to measure about 2400 count's/s what corresponds to an effective 63Ni amount of 1 micro mole at most and this calculated with a lot of goodwill.

Before we can draw any conclusions they should do the same experiment with inactive Nickel and the same electrode/sonotrode (not the identical one). Everything done in a closed system.

They also give no serious data, what would include all detailed masses of the original elements found before/after in a control and the experiment.

My impression is that they just look for a cheap explanation of a fantasy model.

Nevertheless ⁶³Ni is a good candidate to investigate as it has the exact same outer 4D quantum structure as ⁴⁰K, what is claimed by other to follow a transmutation during sonication.

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the thing is their methodological approach has been to subtract the elements belonging to the sonotrode and every part in contact with the sample.

They report the amount of solution used and the density, so you might be about right with the micro mole estimate, but they report a control so the result can’t be dismissed just because it was a small concentration of radioactive substance in the treated solution.

I know you don’t like the DST theory, but that does not make the results less interesting for practical purposes.

Quote from AlainCo

Curbina

I don't really understand the process you refers to, but I've seen often reference to the preference toward stable outcome in LENR.

I remember Iwamura thin film experiments, with preference to rare but stable elements like Pr

BARC observed that tritium was produced, but also consumed during PdD electrolysis... and making tritium disapear suprised BARC team.

SPAWAR team (Pamela Boss I think) explained that probably tritium and neutrons were anticorelated with excess heat.

My personal beotian vision of theory, inspired by Edmund Storms vision of slow fusion, is that the hydroton (a chain of hydrogen and sometime heavy elements, insulated from outside interference) decays like a radioactive element do, toward stable outcomes, and that when there is heavier nucleus in the hydroton, they decay "in group" with the hydrogen nuclei...

My naive vision is that probably the hydroton is kept as a Schrödinger cat in nanocrack (or SAV) box, that shows a quantified energy scale like atoms or nuclei do, and decays from higher energy state to intermediate superposed states, by smaller (keV?eV?) quanta, until it interferes with outside and fall into a classical state as a chain of classical nuclei, probably more stable...

I know it must be more complicated since all prevent nuclei to interact far away... but this is my intuition.

In a way it is really what have shocked the hot fusion and fission people who observed that nuclear reaction, produce very radioactive outcome, and high energy particles, because all is done quickly, and with few bodies... LENR is not behaving that way, so they concluded it was not real.

In a way it is absolutely logical, and LENR clearly is something needing low energy, probably nearly spontaneous, and produces lower energy outcome... the mechanism must be something like a decay, but a multi-body slow decay, like there are slow earthquakes.

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Well, Cardone et al insist this is an expected outcome of their DST theory.

I have written a comment in the a Researchgate page of this publication asking if he can address how the effect of adding D2O and / Or tritium, or using palladium coating in the parts in contact with the liquid (as Ohmasa does) can enhance the rate of transmutation, and he answered me. He insists this can also be framed within the DST theory as ways to reach the appropriate energy density to deform space in the proper frame of time to achieve the transformation of matter.

One can either agree or disagree, but from the experimental work progression they show since the 1990s they seem to be at least into something. If one looks the earlier references, they started to shape their theory from purely abstract analysis of some cosmological phenomena (anisotropy of background noise) and followed their development with light speed experiments. In the early 2000’s they figured out ultrasound was a good way to manipulate energy density, and started experimentation with this inspired by some Russian reports of foil explosions.

They have a page in several languages where they try to gather, systematize and sum up all their research. http://Www.newnuclearscience.eu

Quote from Wyttenbach

The problem is that their amount of radioactive 63-Ni used is far to low to make any conclusions about other elements generated because this would violate the precision given by their used method.

I too expect that they will see a decrease of 63-Ni. But here again: Why do they only run the test for 2 x 100 seconds why not longer to prove a complete removal?

Of course their model is as wrong as any SM like approach is, but this has no influence on the experiment and the wrong conclusions of the experiment. If other elements are generated then this is most likely not related to the decay rate increase because the Q-factor is very low. What I would expect is an exact measurement of 63-Cu generated. After such you can relate any delta to new elements generated. But of course the have to use more than a micro mole...

Wyttenbach, can I ask why you assert that the Ni63 Can only transform into Cu63? Under these conditions, even if it would transmute to Cu63 there’s no warranty it could not change from Cu63 into anything else during the length of the run.

Now, the runs are limited to 100 s because the apparatus overheats beyond that. This is not directly stated here but is something they have stated with regard to the same question.

I have heard a couple of lectures by Cardone and he states that the results they have attained by ultrasound treatment of mercury move up and down the Z number, in a way that goes against the concept that you can only fuse lighter elements up to Iron and break heavier elements down to iron. So in a sense they claim that the end results, under conditions that are not randomly chosen to be more effective in achieving transmutation, are random at the moment of trying to see what the end result of the transformation will be, and they need much more experimental work to be able to guide the end result to a determinate element or group of elements. So far they have managed to get transmutation consistently, but the end results are still a diversity of elements even starting from only a very few as mercury or iron.

Quote from Wyttenbach

Potentially all high Z nuclei can release energy by fission. Thus it is no surprise to see Hg going up an down. The new (LENR) thing is that we don't see classic fission ( just parts) . We see parts added and part removed and sometime reorganized parts too.

But you must be always aware that solvents also take part in a reaction!

The difference between ultra sound (US) stimulation and classic hard ray shooting or nucleus banging into targets is the mode of interaction. US stimulates all 3 dimensions at once and even more important highly symmetric. All other methods are stone age compared to US. To get H*/D* about 500..1000eV power is needed for orbit synchronization/stimulation, what is easy attainable inside the bubble collapse.

Thanks for answering this.

Can you clarify what you mean by “solvent” in this context? I understand that all elements present and subject to Ultrasound stimulation will interact, including the parts of the sonotrode, the vessel in which the elements are contained and the gases that may be present. That’s why Cardone et al have discounted all previously present elements and only report non previously present elements as results of the process, at least in the case of their mercury ultrasound experiments.

About the statement of Ultrasound stimulating all 3 dimensions at all, that’s pretty much exactly what Cardone et al state, but they add time as another important aspect of the ultrasound stimulation. They also sort of state that energy is the 5th dimension, if I am understanding well what they imply.