Fusione fredda Renzo Mondaini—trascrizione

Not sure if I should keep using this thread as a blog/mirror for the experimental notes I am writing in a separate private document, but...

• I found that by slightly touching with the anode the water surface so that the discharge rate is low (countable) it’s possible to create large spheres that at first seem as if composed of water plasma. I attempted this with the initially used paper clip (mild steel/mostly Fe) with a sharpened tip, 1M K2CO3, cylindrical copper cathode, 550V.

• Upon video frame analysis it looks that they are glowing from incandescence by the contact patch with the water surface, at times apparently without directly involving the metal tip of the anode, which is interesting. This means it’s the water itself, or ions emitted from it (potassium? Carbon from K2CO3?) that is glowing.

• I believe one of the main reasons why I was (still am, but less at the moment) having problems with electrolyte splashing is that the anode wire can vibrate wildly. The steel paper clip that I used in the first tests was thick and rigid enough as to not vibrate as much as with the other wires. The reason I sharpened it was to reduce the surface area in contact with the electrolyte as with the thinner wires.

Dr Richard

Since I used tap water that will not be possible to determine here.

Perhaps the effect could be related to that causing alkali metal samples to form metastable transparent spheres when dropped in water, but the spheres or "balls" don't disappear explosively in my case.

https://i.imgur.com/YEsMHrX.gifv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBpaSshS1SM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIGMfai_ICg

I made a gif of the effect from the video I posted earlier:

Alan Smith

It's possible, because the large growth and glow are associated with audible "clicks", although I'm not sure if I would define them arc-overs.

The impression I had was that I first need to form a large enough water sphere or ball, which is initiated also just dipping slightly the anode into the electrolyte (this is more apparent at lower voltages), but in part it can also indeed grow from electrolyte sprayed around by previous spark events and dripping to the tip of the anode. Once the ball gets large enough, it is then possible to start lifting slightly the anode from the wavy surface and begin intermittent conduction through it (with plasma, but no visible arcs) to the electrolyte body. This appears to make the ball grow at a faster rate. The process however cannot be sustained indefinitely and over a critical size or after lifting the anode too much the discharge rate increases excessively and the ball eventually collapses.

Interestingly the balls that form (also at lower voltages without visible plasma or noise, as I highlighted in the previous page) all spin rapidly, which is similar to what happens in those formed in the "transparent alkali metal" experiments that can be found on Youtube or elsewhere.

I have to point out that the waves forming on the electrolyte from the sharp discharge events, as well as the unfavorable characteristics of the DC-DC boost converter I'm using, might make interpretation of what is really occurring more difficult. However I have a suspicion that the electrolyte concentration and therefore the concentration of OH- anions in the sphere attached to the anode (+) is much higher than that of the electrolyte solution beneath it.

Alan Smith

Interesting reference, thanks, although in my case very limited electrolysis is occurring—I need to immerse the anode further for that. Possibly the spheres form a kind of homopolar motor as you write.

I find that in my tests the spheres (and the mist formed around them) tend to rotate counter-clockwise (also on their own axis, not just around the anode, but this is hard to see from the videos), which should make sense, since current is flowing to the anode. Rather low average currents seem to be involved here, but peak currents will be much higher due to the cyclically discharging capacitors.

I did some more tests, probably the last ones until I change the setup further. Comments in chronological order below.

• Since my prediction is that the water balls formed around the anode (+) are composed of a high concentration of hydroxide anions (OH-) I will try doubling the electrolyte concentration to 2M K2CO3. I think the reaction will be even more explosive than previously observed, but the spheres will be larger.
• To obtain a 2M solution I’m adding 12.4g of K2CO3 to the already present 12.6g in 90ml water (est.), bringing the total to 25.0g K2CO3. It will dissolve slowly. The solution is acquiring a slight blue tinge probably from copper. After several minutes and stirring, eventually the electrolyte dissolved.
• After a quick test at 550V again with the sharpened steel wire (paper clip), splashing appears to have become so severe as to render very difficult to initiate any kind of interesting reaction. Furthermore a slowly moving aerosol, with possibly also with smoke from the plastic layer covering the steel wire, is becoming severe. I will now try to decrease voltage to see if the discharge rate increases.
• I decreased voltage to 403V… the discharge events are now much weaker and still occurring at a low rate. I'm wearing a pair of insulating headphones for hearing protection though, so it's hard to gauge their strength compared to past tests. it’s now easier to form cloudy white balls of electrolyte solution around the anode tip and it’s clearer that conduction is occurring through them. They collapse after growing beyond a critical size, but the effect is overall not as impressive as it seemed earlier.

• I increased again voltage to 600V, which is what I would consider a safe maximum limit for the DC boost converter—and also the maximum voltage I can measure, it turns out. After a short test, the amount of aerosol produced (which does not smell like burnt plastic, but more like alkali) seems excessive, while the amount of splashing and low discharge rate render the observation of any other effect very difficult. I don’t think it’s possible to continue further with this setup under these conditions.
• The jar has been warming up more than I expected it would during the test, but still to lukewarm levels. By the time I thought of measuring this with the thermometer, it had already cooled down as to render the measurement not meaningful.

EDIT: I did a couple quick tests afterwards.

• I tried to put a rolled plastic mesh on the bottom of the jar in order to try breaking waves from the larger water body, but it did not bring significant results with the steel anode wire at 600V. Splashing appears to be originating from the discharge point.

• After removing the mesh I also tried using a long screwdriver as the anode, with no plastic parts around the discharge area, and aerosol formation was still occurring with it, with slowly ascending mist visible from the top opening after removing the electrode from the jar.

EDIT2: attached a useful document.

I found a relatively detailed 2007 account in English by Ludwik Kowalski on earlier "anodic plasma" experiments by Bazhutov, with first-hand information from the researcher himself from a conference made in Catania (Sicily, Italy) at about that time.

http://pages.csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/cf/341erzions.html

I've also made some other testing to establish why the reaction recently was not performing as with the small jar. Again some observations in chronological order.

• I'm thinking that perhaps the electrode configuration might be affecting the reaction, I tried replaying the copper cathode with a steel one, shaped differently, with still the same 90ml 2M K2CO3 water solution (now blue-colored from copper) and 600V.

• No immediate difference in the observed reaction compared to previous tests was observed. The plasma still looked amber, with a very slight off-blue hint, with a relatively low self-repetition rate compared to earlier tests with a small jar, and significant splashing.
• Perhaps there’s too much electrolyte for my reaction conditions. Thus I have now replaced the electrolyte with new tap water. I’m going to use 32 ml and progressively increase the amount of K2CO3, testing at 600V. There might be impurities from previous testing besides those inherent of tap water.

• Testing with no electrolyte… Current is 0.05A from the multimeter. I think electrolysis might be occurring as the tip of the sharp anode is getting darker.
• Added 0.25g K2CO3. In 32 ml water that’s 0.0565M. Stirring a bit to dissolve… it didn’t take very long. Testing… now a high frequency, but small plasma with an amber core and a blue halo is being generated. Splashing is not occurring significantly, but tiny droplets are being sprayed around.
• I’ve made a brief video, and upon reviewing, like it was earlier, colors look different on camera than by eye. The steel angle bracket cathode is damaged from different testing made in the past months.

• This looks more similar to earlier testing with the small jar. I think chromium or zinc impurities from steel coating giving the reaction seen at that time might now be ruled out. (this depends on the steel bracket used, to be fair)
• From audio analysis it appears that the repetition frequency was about 750 Hz, and dirty harmonics of this can be seen in the spectrum. They are the few other strong peaks.

• Current was 0.04A DC from the multimeter and 0.10A AC from the clamp meter. These values are for reference only as it's unlikely that they are accurate.
• I've also made a 0.25x slow-mo video (unlisted). When I made the slow-mo video, at times (not filmed) electrolyte solution dripping to the anode would disturb the plasma and make it perform poorly, as if too much immersed in the electrolyte.

Some chonological-order comments on tests I made earlier today, plus an interesting—although probably conventional—effect on the bottom of the post, with animated GIF also attached.

• I’m now adding 0.22g K2CO3 for a total of 0.47g in 32ml water, reaching 0.106M K2CO3. It dissolved quickly.
• Testing at 600V at 0.106M K2CO3… I seem to be getting a noisier reaction, with apparently slightly more splashing. Sometimes the glowing water ball appears to be disturbing the plasma now. Aerosol formation, especially visible after interrupting the reaction, seems to have increased.
• Adding 0.41g K2CO3 for a total of 0.88g in 32ml water, thus 0.199M K2CO3. Dissolution was quick again.
• Testing at 600V and about 0.2M K2CO3… all previous effects, splashing of larger water droplets included, are starting to become more intense. DC current from the multimeter still 0.04A, but from the current probe in AC mode it started getting into the 0.30A range. The cell is warming up a bit from testing, but so also is the DC boost converter (still lukewarm, though).
• I suspected that the discharge repetition rate was decreasing, so I tried checking with audio analysis. It turns out from analysis in Audacity (FFT size = 4096) that they all have about the same apparent rate of discharge. However the noise became progressively more distorted with increasing electrolyte concentration.

• Upon reviewing the videos, the plasma in the latest 0.199M K2CO3 test on average looks larger: https://youtu.be/2_ZmMBMLNxU
• In the process I noticed that the tip of the anode does actually get incandescent under certain conditions. It cools rapidly after lifting it from the water surface, and apparently it did it more clearly at 0.057M K2CO3 concentration, the lowest tested.

• Adding 0.89g K2CO3 for 1.77g in total to reach 0.402M concentration. Again the electrolyte dissolved quickly. This quick dissolution is a striking difference from earlier testing.
• After testing at 600V at 0.402M K2CO3, the previously effects are again larger. Even with insulating headphones the reaction is starting to get loud and significant electrolyte vaporization is occurring.
• The base discharge rate from audio analysis is difficult to tell for sure due to distortion, but it might have decreased. The first prominent peak is at 710 Hz, but there’s a very sharp signal peaking occurring at a rate of about 60–80 Hz which is visible especially on the waveform view.

• In the process I observed an interesting effect that can be triggered by collecting a ball of electrolyte on the anode and striking it on the jar wall, which is weakly electrically connected to the cathode. A circular blue figure with a deep blue-violet color slowly expands from the strike point. By frame analysis it appears that the moment the anode strikes the jar, a brighter white-violet plasma is transiently formed. The discharge in the first few seconds was with the electrolyte solution as 0.4M K2CO3.

I was also asked to provide a summary of the conditions of the last experiment (and of these tests in general) with the blue ring, so here is one, mirrored from Youtube comments:

Quote

The cathode is an L-shaped mild steel bracket that has been previously cleaned with citric acid. The dark spots are due to damage from unrelated experimentation. Each side measures about 40mm, but here it is immersed in the electrolyte only by roughly 10mm.

The anode is a soft steel wire of 1mm diameter that has been sharpened into a needle. It’s a repurposed paper clip. In the experiments it is normally immersed in the electrolyte by much less than 0.5mm; it basically only barely touches the surface of the electrolyte. It is dropped manually in the electrolyte.

The container (jar) is made of standard soda glass and has a nominal capacity of 230ml. It is not properly insulated from ground.

In the test shown in the video, the anode was at +300V, the cathode at -300V. The electrolyte was 0.4M K2CO3 in 32ml tap water. It’s difficult to tell what is the average power into the electrodes when the bright plasma is produced, but I don’t think it’s more than 20–25W.

The high voltage power supply is a China-design 70W (peak) DC-DC boost converter that outputs up to +/− 390V that can be found from many different vendors on Ebay or Amazon. In my case it operates with 12V input from a standard computer power supply (Corsair HX520W).

The experiments were initially intended to replicate Tadahiko Mizuno and Renzo Mondaini’s plasma electrolysis with a small cathode and large anode, but at a low power. Similar visual results could be obtained also at low power, at about 265V.

When I found out and read more in detail about Bazhutov’s anodic plasma experiments and patent application, I switched electrode polarity (small anode and large cathode) but I had to increase inter-electrode voltage above 350V to see a reaction.

No plasma can be obtained without adding electrolyte (even with tap water), but even slight amounts of electrolyte can make it appear. With large amounts of electrolyte the reaction is “explosive”, which causes excessive splashing and a low plasma self- repetition rate. So after a few tests with higher amounts I started over and began adding it again slowly.

No serious attempt at measuring excess heat has been made yet.

Display More

Unfortunately it appears that the output screw terminal of the DC boost converter is starting to short-circuit. Probably my fault for not taking care immediately of electrolyte splashing and vaporizing around the area, and possibly for having used a stranded copper wire directly connected from the cathode to the corresponding screw terminal (perhaps some electrolyte could have slowly diffused there through the wire?). This means that my testing ends here for now.

I think it's fixable but I don't have the tools to do a proper job at the moment. The DC boost converter still works but there is some conduction between the terminals at the terminal block (= heat, inefficiencies) and above 550V sparks start occurring. Earlier it was even worse, but somehow, perhaps from the heat of the sparks and after trying to desolder (unsuccessfully) the screw terminal block, it reverted to a more (although not fully) functional state.

In the process I took the output voltage–trimmer resistance curve. If I'll decide to properly fix the output I might as well replace the trimmer with a 50 kOhm potentiometer.

EDIT: bonus gif.

EDIT2: here it is again, in the form of a video on Youtube.

Apparently wire wicking can be a thing. I think this is what caused the issues I was having. I've never thought of this. http://www.phillipsqwiktechtip…QwikTechTips_August12.pdf

Furthermore, in the process of attempting to clean up the output connector I blew the device's 5A fuse from reinstalling input power wires with the incorrect polarity, so for now I'm done until I get replacement parts or perhaps a new converter.

However, since the testing area upon inspection was also full of electrolyte droplets (which indicate that the setup might have to be rethought) and there's not much more that I can personally test, this subject goes on hold until 2020, at least from my side.

EDIT: it's indeed what happened. I've made a photo but I don't know if it's clear enough. There's green-colored moisture around the other end of the cathode wire which was previously connected to the DC boost converter.

Arun Luthra

Indeed it doesn't work well without a layer of electrolyte (e.g. splashed from the previously triggered stronger discharges). Although your're describing a more detailed process, yesterday I wrote i reply to another person who asked on Youtube comments:

Quote

A current is being passed from the anode to the cathode through the electrolyte collected on the anode tip and splashed on the jar walls by the energetic plasma reaction(s) occurred earlier. Possibly the electrolyte there is being pushed away and thinning up in the process, forming a sort of "wave", which gives this ring effect. As for why it's blue, I have no idea.

It also seems to work best at higher voltages, in the order of 600V as when I made the video. At the lower ones tested yesterday (about 350–500V) it doesn't form very large rings and the sparks at the edges tend to be more on the yellow/incandescent side than blue.

When I tried to repeat the same yesterday (still on the inner wall) at a lower voltage I once obtained a bright incandescent yellow spot, a higher current draw than normal (about 0.18A from the multimeter) and made a small indentation on the glass jar. This seemed to occur more easily just above the water line, but I didn't try to intentionally break or melt through the jar.

I was not implying that the effect as a whole is anomalous; I posted it because it seemed visually interesting and because perhaps it's a process that could be taken advantage of for more useful purposes.

LeBob

To be honest I thought the "ball" phenomenon was way more interesting. I have been wondering if more intense and intentionally brief discharges (perhaps at a higher electrolyte concentration) could make them acquire a longer lifetime. Since they seem to be negatively charged and rotating in response to the current flow, and given that they must have some inertia, they could act as generators after power is removed. So they could keep living for a while if they're made initially spin fast enough.